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the air corridors between australia's capitals are completely hosed and a rail network that isn't penis is a good idea 
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Jan 2, 2022 05:47
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| # ? Jun 12, 2024 20:40 |
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There's never going to be Melbourne to Sydney or Sydney to Brisbane high speed rail unless there's a massive tax on flying, the economics and travel times just don't stack up for HSR connections at that distance. China is the only place that has done it and that was as a national prestige project where budgets aren't really a priority. I think we will eventually end up with a high speed rail corridor from the Sunshine Coast through Brisbane to the Gold Coast just because that will effectively be one huge city and I could see a future federal government funding a Canberra extension to the Sydney to Newcastle link Labor is talking up right now.
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Jan 2, 2022 06:01
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freebooter posted:"High-speed rail on Australia’s east coast would increase emissions for up to 36 years" I really don't think "emissions will increase during construction then decrease thereafter" is a particularly damning critique. Like yeah, obviously? Also pretty pessimistic to think that construction emissions will not improve at all over the 30 years. If we haven't at least started transitioning to zero emission concrete, green steel and electric construction vehicles/equipment in the next 15 years we're probably screwed anyway.
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Jan 2, 2022 06:09
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Tgent posted:I really don't think "emissions will increase during construction then decrease thereafter" is a particularly damning critique. No, but when it doesn't stack up on economic grounds either, then it loses the argument that it's worth spending more for environmental reasons. We could take the hundred billion and spend it instead on renewable energy or subsidising public transport or building better intra-city rail connections and get a better outcome re: climate change than the big glamourous "nation-building" project. (We won't, but we won't build HSR either, so may as well hypothesise the ideal world.)
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Jan 2, 2022 07:09
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there is probably a reason why most of the interstate rail is not graded above 80 km/h. i say that as a person who actually does enjoy riding interstate rail.
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Jan 2, 2022 07:17
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Tokamak posted:there is probably a reason why most of the interstate rail is not graded above 80 km/h. i say that as a person who actually does enjoy riding interstate rail. This is the worst thing you've ever said
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Jan 2, 2022 07:21
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starkebn posted:I'll be overjoyed to come back in I'll just be happy if in 30 years I can even eat.
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Jan 2, 2022 07:44
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Urcher posted:Word cloud for 2021 (as compared to 2020): gently caress you Tasmania
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Jan 2, 2022 07:47
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rape masks?
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Jan 2, 2022 07:55
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Bloody head out to civic pub on a Saturday and you'll see a few high speed rails boys
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Jan 2, 2022 08:02
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SuddenCactus posted:rape masks? word cloud coming hard with the qanon takes
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Jan 2, 2022 08:33
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Albo Policy:
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Jan 2, 2022 08:53
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Mmm yes nation building transportation infrastructure between the 3 largest cities making up about half of the whole population is a bad idea because it'll hurt some imaginary number on a spreadsheet. I am very smart
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Jan 2, 2022 09:00
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The phrase "nation building" is Godwin's law to public policy
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Jan 2, 2022 09:15
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thatfatkid posted:Mmm yes nation building transportation infrastructure between the 3 largest cities making up about half of the whole population is a bad idea because it'll hurt some imaginary number on a spreadsheet. I am very smart High speed rail between Sydney and Newcastle is like putting a jet ferry on the river styx
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Jan 2, 2022 09:18
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He’ll get no argument from Les Fowler, 63. “Climate change is a load of crap,” Fowler says, emerging from the local supermarket with three bags of homebrand muesli. “They talk about zero emissions; you’ve got cows, they fart, people fart. We can never have zero pollution, never.”
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Jan 2, 2022 09:22
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abigserve posted:High speed rail between Sydney and Newcastle is like putting a jet ferry on the river styx Hence why it would need to be an actual rail network from Brisbane to Melbourne. freebooter posted:The phrase "nation building" is Godwin's law to public policy And what exactly is wrong with "nation building"? Apart from your desire to just let transport infrastructure crumble and continue to rely on air routes which are some of the highest trafficked routes in the world.
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Jan 2, 2022 09:33
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It's a bullshit slogan employed for political purposes. There's a reason the department in Utopia is called the "Nation Building Authority."
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Jan 2, 2022 09:45
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Yeah except such an infrastructure project would literally reshape the whole East Coast. You know, the place where like 80% of all Australians live?
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Jan 2, 2022 09:47
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they'd have to build it a fair bit inland so the rising sea levels don't destroy it
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Jan 2, 2022 09:49
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As a former Novacastrian I'm pretty sure I recall they justified tearing up tracks and knocking down most of its train stations seven years ago with the argument that the amount of passengers wasn't enough to justify them being there in the first place. Of course this was at a time when they had a property developer Lord Mayor under an ICAC investigation, and probably a complete lie if the boujie waterfront cafe developments that were built on the land are anything to go by, but I can't imagine why you would travel to Newcastle from Sydney for those or even where a high speed train is supposed to arrive.
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Jan 2, 2022 09:56
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starkebn posted:Looking mild today Looking decoupled to me
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Jan 2, 2022 10:07
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freebooter posted:It's a bullshit slogan employed for political purposes. There's a reason the department in Utopia is called the "Nation Building Authority." I will personally vote for Bill Shortan if he has a policy of creating the Nation Building Authority. Furthermore, I will donate to the party if they announce that Rob Stich is going to be it's CEO.
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Jan 2, 2022 10:31
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thatfatkid posted:Yeah except such an infrastructure project would literally reshape the whole East Coast. You know, the place where like 80% of all Australians live? you would have to reshape the east coast to build it
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Jan 2, 2022 11:08
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thatfatkid posted:Yeah except such an infrastructure project would literally reshape the whole East Coast. You know, the place where like 80% of all Australians live? No it wont. Its a dumb loving piece of hot air that utterly ignores any hint of reality and geography. It wont be anywhere near 100 billion - try at least double - and it sure as gently caress wont ever be complete in anyones lifetimes if anyone was stupid enough to actually build it. You would be far better off with making rail freight work if you really want to have infra that can be plausible and actually make a difference.
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Jan 2, 2022 11:19
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So just like literally any other major infrastructure project then? Not building infrastructure just because it'd be hard is a pathetic excuse. For example Brisbane Airport was literally built on reclaimed wetland aka reshaping the land, yet it was accomplished somehow. thatfatkid fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Jan 2, 2022 |
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Jan 2, 2022 11:20
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I’m looking forward to the Nabiac extension
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Jan 2, 2022 11:42
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thatfatkid posted:So just like literally any other major infrastructure project then? Ahhh yes here it is, the handwave that ignores the actual real issues of getting HSR between just Newcastle and Sydney. And the sheer cost of just that segment that will dwarf the 10s of billions the Metro has racked up. Or you know the expanses of farmland and First Nations land above ground will have to be resumed for and oh yes the decade of geological for the tunnelling to find if a route could even be bored in locations like Cowan or how about the Southern Highlands that has subsidance issues so tunnelling is dubious and there is a reason why above ground rail twists and turns to Moss Vale. But hey thats just the start of the actual real geological problems and ignore why the new freight corridor goes inland well away from the coast it will be sweet and wont cost a truly staggering amount of money with cost and build time overruns compling the awful cost benefit ration Build nuclear reactors, itll be cheaper and less politically and engineering problematic.
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Jan 2, 2022 11:53
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birdstrike posted:I’m looking forward to the Nabiac extension But what about the highway patrol copper that’s always sitting in the median on the southern approach? You’ll put him out of a job!
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Jan 2, 2022 11:54
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So Palmer in his latest Youtube ads is claiming Joseph Lyons, (PM from 1932-39) as one of his own. Because he named his party the same as the party that old dead white man ran under. This is surely illegal yes/no? Does it fall under false advertising? Misleading political statements? To whom should I report this? If indeed anyone. I know Clive himself won't do a loving thing, or change the ad. But it might get the ad pulled at least.
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Jan 2, 2022 11:55
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Ahhh yes here it is, the handwave that ignores the actual real issues of getting HSR between just Newcastle and Sydney. And the sheer cost of just that segment that will dwarf the 10s of billions the Metro has racked up. Or you know the expanses of farmland and First Nations land above ground will have to be resumed for and oh yes the decade of geological for the tunnelling to find if a route could even be bored in locations like Cowan or how about the Southern Highlands that has subsidance issues so tunnelling is dubious and there is a reason why above ground rail twists and turns to Moss Vale. Just keep handwaving away putting any effort at all into future proofing australian infrastructure because its hard. You haven't refuted anything at all dude, just advocated for more of nothing while the nation stagnates and is left behind by the rest of the world. Having an actual long term vision that goes past 1 election cycle is a good thing.
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Jan 2, 2022 12:01
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You can't just build infrastructure! You have to wait for a billionaire to come up with some cocaine fuelled dream of getting away from traffic and then throw billions at him!
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Jan 2, 2022 12:10
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BrigadierSensible posted:So Palmer in his latest Youtube ads is claiming Joseph Lyons, (PM from 1932-39) as one of his own. Because he named his party the same as the party that old dead white man ran under. I think it was placed in the too hard category for legislation, but hey would love to hear otherwise. Let me know how you go, to say Menzies was a member of the “United Australia Party” is accurate in the sense that he was, it just happens to not be the exact same UAP Clive runs. Bloke has more money than sense and can pay off any fine.
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Jan 2, 2022 12:12
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Maybe someone should do a feasibility study into HSR on the east coast...........
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Jan 2, 2022 12:58
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BrigadierSensible posted:So Palmer in his latest Youtube ads is claiming Joseph Lyons, (PM from 1932-39) as one of his own. Because he named his party the same as the party that old dead white man ran under. there's not any laws about truth in political advertising at the federal level. there were briefly a law about it in the 80s but it was quickly repealed because they quickly realised that enforcing it would be very difficult & problematic, especially as the law was considered overly broad - publishers etc. could be held liable, not just the ad's creator, so there were concerns about papers & television needing to seek legal advice for every political ad to avoid publishing one that was false. SA and the ACT have some limited laws covering state elections though. there is probably room for something to reduce lies in political advertising that isn't as broad as what was briefly in effect in the 80s, but it's still a difficult area
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Jan 2, 2022 13:12
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joe lyons sucked and clive can have him
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Jan 2, 2022 13:21
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thatfatkid posted:Just keep handwaving away putting any effort at all into future proofing australian infrastructure because its hard. You haven't refuted anything at all dude, just advocated for more of nothing while the nation stagnates and is left behind by the rest of the world. "future proofing" and "left behind by the rest of the world" are also meaningless stock phrases. If Syd-Mel HSR is ever built I'll catch it once for the novelty and then continue to fly Virgin or Jetstar between cities because it will be faster and cheaper. Like how Europeans still fly everywhere unless the trip is under an hour or two.
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Jan 2, 2022 13:43
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Off of twitter so I don't know how true it is? Oh well!
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Jan 2, 2022 13:53
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freebooter posted:"future proofing" and "left behind by the rest of the world" are also meaningless stock phrases. You have no idea what you're talking about and are just making poo poo up re: euros flying everywhere. Infrastructure projects by their very nature are expensive and time consuming, that's not a reason to not do them. Might as well have never built the harbour bridge, the storey Bridge, snowy mountain scheme etc.
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Jan 2, 2022 14:46
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Watching people earnestly post about high speed rail in Australia is extremely funny.
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Jan 2, 2022 15:15
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