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Yeah there's enough about Discovery that has the deep cuts with lore and details that I absolutely believe there are a lot of people on staff who are hardcore Trekkies. Most of the issues come across like someone from above has imposed decisions on them.
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Mar 31, 2021 14:41
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HopperUK posted:I get not liking Discovery, I do like it but I can see the huge problems it has. But this is hyperbolic in a really silly way. The show is shot through with love of Star Trek. Nah, Lower Decks is a show that has some problems but is made with an undeniable love of Star Trek and understands what the essence of Trek is. Discovery was made by someone who had an idea to do something interesting with Trek and then he got sacked 24 hours in and the rest of it has been made with love of Doctor Who. e: I'll clarify, I generally assume when we say 'made by' that we're talking about the showrunners. The people doing set and costumes on Discovery clearly care about doing their jobs. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Mar 31, 2021 |
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Mar 31, 2021 14:42
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A lot of the deep cuts on discovery mainly make me think a whole lot of lower-level people doing set dressing (not the designs, just the detailing and stuff) and filling out the part of scripts where it goes "but captain, if we [TECH] then we can [TECH], like [REFERENCE]" or making the screen displays and things like that are the hardcore trekkies. The deep cuts and references are never at a higher level, they all just feel... filled in. Lower Decks is clearly written and managed and all done at every step by people who've been snorting Star Trek their entire life, even if you don't like their particular way of doing it. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Mar 31, 2021 |
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Mar 31, 2021 14:45
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Alchenar posted:So this clip from True Q came across my youtube frontpage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4gbsBlJwo4&ab_channel=SkaIathrax Soap Opera refresh rate TNG is so jarring.
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Mar 31, 2021 14:52
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Martytoof posted:Soap Opera refresh rate TNG is so jarring. Oh whew I thought my tablet screen was freaking out
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Mar 31, 2021 15:37
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MikeJF posted:
The choice to make the first 3 episodes make you hate the main character of lower decks with a passion is something i will never understand. Maybe my patience for obnoxious know it alls is low.
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Mar 31, 2021 16:25
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https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1377299922416979971 good for him
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Mar 31, 2021 18:19
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Discovery and Picard are the definition of soulless cash-ins to me, these shows have 0% creative integrity after spending so much effort trying to copy other shows or just straight up plagiarizing stuff. I can't believe that people would be taking that crap seriously if it weren't attached to the Star Trek brand. Lower decks sucks and it feels like cbs's frantic response to the Orville but at least the people making it actually seem to like Star Trek.
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Mar 31, 2021 18:22
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Marshal Radisic posted:Alexander was the favorite character of Michael Piller's mother. 
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Mar 31, 2021 19:03
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Tighclops posted:Discovery and Picard are the definition of soulless cash-ins to me, these shows have 0% creative integrity after spending so much effort trying to copy other shows or just straight up plagiarizing stuff. I can't believe that people would be taking that crap seriously if it weren't attached to the Star Trek brand.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:23
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Tighclops posted:Discovery and Picard are the definition of soulless cash-ins to me, these shows have 0% creative integrity after spending so much effort trying to copy other shows or just straight up plagiarizing stuff. I can't believe that people would be taking that crap seriously if it weren't attached to the Star Trek brand. I haven't seen Picard, nothing about it appeals to me (except maybe seeing Troi and Riker together) but I simply disagree, or perhaps I don't know what 'creative integrity' means. I think Disco is hampered by shorter seasons, by obvious executive meddling and by a real struggle to find its tone at first, but none of that's really new to Trek. I think there's obviously a lot of creative passion behind it though. It's bewildering to me to say it's soulless. But I guess if something just doesn't speak to you then it doesn't. I still run into Trek fans who hate DS9, for example, like - everyone's different. Some hate the JJtrek stuff, some hate Voyager, some hate Enterprise (it's me, I hate Enterprise). I'm sure someone out there loves Nemesis. 'Too much Trek' is a pretty nice problem to have I suppose!
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Mar 31, 2021 19:45
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I fully understand why people like lower decks and I have gotten a good chuckle out of similar things like the darmok and jalad September 1991 t-shirt, but I don't feel like that translates into a watchable show very well and the fan service is at this point off putting along with the pacing of the episodes and the annoying characters But like they haven't ripped off any indie games or the main plot twist from Mass effect or fundamentally missed the point of the philosophical underpinning of the entire franchise so the show has a low bar to clear
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Mar 31, 2021 19:50
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I honestly just want a cozy office show set in space that occasionally veers off into twilight zone territory again
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Mar 31, 2021 19:59
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I hated disco, and the direction it was going, along with the time jump. The end of season 3 the concept the ending was supposed to satisfying to a person, bewildered me to the point i literally just gave up. They might have 7 seasons or 100 but as far as I can tell, the show and it's design is not for me in the most basic ways. Lower decks, I watched all of, back to back. I didn't chuckle once, but thought that the story was interesting. It felt more trek than disco was.  I'm more looking into maybe reviving the other dead parts of the franchise like the games, or such. STO has been there fore 10 years, and well, I'll be honest, I've played it till i no longer can play it no more. Pike might get some good stuff, but who knows, ToS was kind of a weird series, and I don't know if Pike will follow that or not.
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Mar 31, 2021 20:01
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Anson Mount deserves better writing than he's going to get, but that's been true of him since Hell on Wheels
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Mar 31, 2021 20:02
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It’s so weird to me because the Pike and Spock writing from Season 2 was actually good even if the plot was batshit
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Mar 31, 2021 20:04
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I'm actually liking Lower Decks more the second time now that I can binge a couple episodes at a time. I like the parody more now that I know the characters aren't completely irredeemable stereotypes.
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Mar 31, 2021 20:09
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I'm just going to simplify and say that Discovery and Picard just aren't that good from a general TV show perspective. Clearly there are fans writing some story beats and the occasional well done bit of fan service does bring a smile to my face, it's just that nothing has really gelled into very compelling TV. I mean an ancient order of Romulans charged with stamping out AI lest they summon some extradimensional robo-cthulhu to kill all organic life in the universe sounds like a bonkers enough subject that could be fun, but not when the whole series is just about reminding us how old Picard is and how he clearly went though "stuff" since we last seen him that's scarred and changed him forever. Smooshing those two things together and trying to cover both in a 10 episode series means we get cliff notes on the meta plot and are told about stuff that happened offscreen to characters that we really wanted to catch up with. It satisfied no-one. Just like I'm not really sure what it served by solving "the burn" this season on Discovery. It I think it would have been better if it was just a completely unsolvable event and the focus was purely on restoring the federation. Solving the burn was essentially just a redemption arc for Michael to justify her getting the center seat.
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Mar 31, 2021 20:15
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Tighclops posted:Anson Mount deserves better writing than he's going to get, but that's been true of him since Hell on Wheels Man Hell of Wheels was always so close to being great but every season it slid slightly further and further away from it. It was amusing in a later season when they finally just had Mount's character tell Common's character "Actually I was lying when I told you I freed my slaves" and the response being "I know" after the first season really tried to be another TV show to sell the "actually good southern plantation owner." Not redemptive, but amusing at least.
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Mar 31, 2021 20:40
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That logo isn’t dark grey and angular enough for him. Come back MORE KNIFE-LIKE, then maybe he’ll talk.
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Mar 31, 2021 21:50
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The award is going to be that thing covered in blades that Worf won in 'Parallels'.
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Mar 31, 2021 21:56
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Burning_Monk posted:I'm actually liking Lower Decks more the second time now that I can binge a couple episodes at a time. I like the parody more now that I know the characters aren't completely irredeemable stereotypes. I definitely liked it a bit more on second viewing and it isn't bad, but there's still a sense that the jokes were all rejects from the Rick and Morty writer's room.
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Mar 31, 2021 22:06
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Kibayasu posted:Man Hell of Wheels was always so close to being great but every season it slid slightly further and further away from it. It was amusing in a later season when they finally just had Mount's character tell Common's character "Actually I was lying when I told you I freed my slaves" and the response being "I know" after the first season really tried to be another TV show to sell the "actually good southern plantation owner." Not redemptive, but amusing at least. That first season was so good. Wasn't really expecting much out of the show since I only watched it after liking Mount's Pike so much. Too bad it couldn't live up to the beginning.
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Apr 1, 2021 00:04
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Payndz posted:The award is going to be that thing covered in blades that Worf won in 'Parallels'. https://twitter.com/akaworf/status/696550441455210496 I always assumed it was a 3D representation of the Klingon logo.
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Apr 1, 2021 00:32
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Tighclops posted:Discovery and Picard are the definition of soulless cash-ins to me, these shows have 0% creative integrity after spending so much effort trying to copy other shows or just straight up plagiarizing stuff. I can't believe that people would be taking that crap seriously if it weren't attached to the Star Trek brand. I know I'm going to sound like the guy who owns Itchy & Scratchy, but being being derivative isn't automatically a deal breaker. People are always praising WOK for being Hornblower in space, the pitch for TOS was Wagon Train to the stars. Lion King is Hamlet with lions, Star Wars is samurai films in space, samurai films are spaghetti westerns in Japan, spaghetti westerns are westerns but Italy... You can have a great derivative work just as easily as you can have a totally original work that's crap.
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Apr 1, 2021 04:14
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Tighclops posted:But like they haven't ripped off any indie games... Oh, sorry, are we meant to be taking seriously again that idea that Discovery stole the idea of Tardigrades from some incredibly obscure game that still hasn't been made, rather than, you know, being aware of the real animals?
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Apr 1, 2021 04:26
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Angry Salami posted:Oh, sorry, are we meant to be taking seriously again that idea that Discovery stole the idea of Tardigrades from some incredibly obscure game that still hasn't been made, rather than, you know, being aware of the real animals? Just how munch money did shitbag nerds piss away trying to crowdfund that dude's lawsuit to kill modern Trek anyway? I have a feeling it was a lot. God, I miss the days when you didn't need a QAnon flowchart to keep track of the various conspiracies floating around your favourite sci-fi TV show.
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Apr 1, 2021 04:58
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Gonz posted:https://twitter.com/akaworf/status/696550441455210496 Are you saying the Klingon emblem doesn't have knives??
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Apr 1, 2021 05:17
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Yeah, I always saw it as three stylized blades over a planet - so, ironically, essentially the same symbol as the Terran Empire.
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Apr 1, 2021 05:22
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It was originally designed to point sideways, so there's a kind of arrow-pointing-forward vibe to it, I guess to symbolise the klingons pushing on. Also it's got a similar point-and-wings shape to klingon ships, which might not be a coincidence, you could see it as a klingon ship above a planet. Also it was colorful.  (It's also the second Klingon emblem: the first klingon empire logo in TOS was only used in two episodes and looked like this) 
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 05:30
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MikeJF posted:(It's also the second Klingon emblem: the first klingon empire logo in TOS was only used in two episodes and looked like this) Art-Deco Klingons?
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Apr 1, 2021 05:34
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Angry_Ed posted:Art-Deco Klingons? Kor did have a cool wall sculpture of it!  (Knowing TOS's set budget, they found that wall piece first and then turned it into the logo) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 05:36
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MikeJF posted:It was originally designed to point sideways, so there's a kind of arrow-pointing-forward vibe to it, I guess to symbolise the klingons pushing on. Also it's got a similar point-and-wings shape to klingon ships, which might not be a coincidence, you could see it as a klingon ship above a planet. Tilting it 90 degrees to face vertical also (intentionally) makes it mirror the Starfleet chevron. The Starfleet emblem has gentle convex lines that come to a point at the top to symbolize the peaceful upward momentum that Starfleet strives for. The Klingon emblem is harsh and made up of concave blades slicing outward in all directions, symbolizing the Klingons's conquest driven society and how they will loving cut you bitch.
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Apr 1, 2021 05:52
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I'm going to guess the top / sideways logo was done for TMP? I swear, I wonder what percentage of up-front imaginative/engineering/costuming/set ideas loading was done for TMP that the franchise milked for 40+ years now? I mean, even the the basic sound for Klingon language was made up by Doohan for TMP and then Marc Okrand (amazingly) back-filled for ST3.
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Apr 1, 2021 06:28
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jeeves posted:I'm going to guess the top / sideways logo was done for TMP? Nah, it was done for later episodes of TOS, TMP made it upright and red though.
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Apr 1, 2021 06:32
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The newer logo implies more violence and chaos with its irregular asymmetry and pointiness, while the older logo is more blocky and stable, and even kinda implies imperialism with the one primary shape boldly in the center in front of some more faded subordinate shapes that span far and wide. Which fits with my theory of Klingons having gone through a major culture/govenmental shift between TOS and TNG that no writer will ever want to touch because everyone wants to import the TNG Klingon development to earlier periods. Which is also weird because TNG opens by implying the Klingons have gone through some kind of decay and the first two we meet are weird fundamentalists talking about how times have changed.
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Apr 1, 2021 07:06
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Angry Salami posted:Oh, sorry, are we meant to be taking seriously again that idea that Discovery stole the idea of Tardigrades from some incredibly obscure game that still hasn't been made, rather than, you know, being aware of the real animals? Honestly I haven't looked into it, but I assumed the worst because of Picard blatantly ripping off Mass Effect
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Apr 1, 2021 07:20
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“AI will destroy us” is not exactly a unique sci-fi plot and I refuse to believe that a lazy stock footage montage is proof of them ripping off Mass Effect, a series literally no one has given a poo poo about since 2012. It’s loving WeGotThisCovered-level conspiracy nonsense, only it originated from this forum somehow.
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Apr 1, 2021 07:24
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Tighclops posted:Honestly I haven't looked into it, but I assumed the worst because of Picard blatantly ripping off Mass Effect There was literally a lawsuit brought by some random guy against CBS arguing that Star Trek: Discovery ripped him off because he also had man-sized tardigrades in his indie video game. He was promptly laughed out of court and wasted a bunch of time and money in the process. About the only thing of worth that came out of it was this beautiful self-own from everyone's favourite not-so-crypto-fascist, Lord Urinal Helmet https://twitter.com/doomcock/status/1032145264335892480 nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Apr 1, 2021 |
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Apr 1, 2021 07:35
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Big Mean Jerk posted:“AI will destroy us” is not exactly a unique sci-fi plot and I refuse to believe that a lazy stock footage montage is proof of them ripping off Mass Effect, a series literally no one has given a poo poo about since 2012. Summoning hyper powerful lovecraftian squid robots from outside the galaxy that cause periodic mass extinction events as an inevitable outcome of the conflict between humans and AI is a little more specific than 'AI bad', if that was an honest mistake and not a deliberate ripoff then the showrunners were absurdly unlucky
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Apr 1, 2021 07:37
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