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Snooze Cruise posted:Either way its a messed up relationship. I feel like I could be doing some over justification though because I really like Guin and think its pretty cool he is a gay character and if the denial stuff is the right reading it would not sit well with me. Why does a socially conscious character who wants to achieve standing being in denial of his own feelings not sit well with you? Would you be upset if a politician in a 1900's historical drama was in denial out of interest? Cause that's basically what's happening, and I think his last exchange with Lily Borjarno basically cements it as the definitive reading, given that she tells him to just put on a dress if he loves Loran so much with Guin replying that the world isn't ready for that yet. Guin is one of, if not my favorite antagonists in a Gundam show, mostly because he's barely an antagonist and spends most of the show as a supportive character trying to make life better for everyone by kicking off another industrial revolution but with a slight undercurrent of more going on before his greed gets the better of him. He wants that revolution and for people's lives to be better. More though, he wants to lead that revolution. He still wants it to happen however, and that he's both socially conscious and a bit greedy is what I like about him, because it makes him more relatable and interesting. Whether he's gay or not is basically entirely superfluous to his character, and just adds a little sprinkle of spice by making some of his exchanges with Lily or Loran different than what they might otherwise be. Which is probably the right way to do things I suppose. Considering the setting though, at least historically, having him be openly gay would probably feel a little out of place, so I think having him be not so much in denial as just hiding it for the sake of image is probably the right call. I think Laura is more so he can express himself and just seem a little quirky rather than be socially rejected for being gay.
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Apr 2, 2017 17:58
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Making the first (for sure) gay character of the metaseries being so in denial of his feelings that the idealize version of the character he loves has to be the opposite gender just feels bad to me even if it makes sense within the context of the show, which is how I see most people reading it. Him being aware but playing this game sits more comfortably to me, I am not saying he has to be open about his feelings. e: I pretty much agree with everything you have to say about why Guin is your favorite Gundam antagonist. Guin is great. Also Lily. Also everything in Turn A. Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 18:02
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Darth Walrus posted:It's interesting to look at gay characters in Gundam. There's Rosenthal from G-Reco, who's a flamboyant walking stereotype, but is also a nice, friendly dude who gets to fly a cool suit and do cool things, and is treated more kindly than any other member of his faction (in that he comes out alive with no lasting trauma). In IBO, there's Takaki, a smart, sweet guy who spends most of his time pining over an unattainable dude and then the rest of the time pining over his memory, there's Iznario the stereotypical predatory paedophile, and finally there's Kudelia and Atra's heavily-subtexted relationship, which essentially ends with them as a husband and housewife raising a kid together, but almost always couches it in their mutual love for a man. Gundam certainly isn't there yet in LGBT representation, but it does at least seem to be becoming more open to the possibility. You're thinking of Yamagi, not Takaki. Takaki is the kid that leaves Tekkadan and ends up being Makanai's aide.
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Apr 2, 2017 19:06
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Darth Walrus posted:Mind you, the 'Laura' stuff being a deliberate power-play kind of plays up the predatory aspects of a grown man lusting after a teenage boy, so that ain't a great look for him either. Char and Amuro are married
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Apr 2, 2017 19:44
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The only gundam shows I saw are Turn A ( ) and the recently finished Iron Blooded Orphans (pretty drat good). How's Gundam Reconguista in G, is it a good watch? And what's it overall tone?
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Apr 2, 2017 23:18
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RottenK posted:The only gundam shows I saw are Turn A ( It's very divisive. I like it a lot but some people haaaaate it. The pacing is super fast so be prepared for that. It also expects you to absorb all the information it gives you so you can't like watch it while doing something else. The overall tone is very optimistic, similar to Turn A.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:28
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Generally People that really like IBO really hate G-Reco and vice versa because they are basically the complete opposite ends of pacing and story telling.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:31
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RottenK posted:The only gundam shows I saw are Turn A ( Similar tone to Turn A. Very good-looking show despite questionable budget and scheduling (it barely even has proper OP animation, just clips from the show), with fun, exotic mechanical designs by newcomer Ippei Gyobu, a bright, engaging palette, unusually expressive character animation, and exciting, chaotic fights. Immerses you well in an alien world, but the total lack of hand-holding makes it a pretty demanding watch - you have to piece together what's going on from incidental snatches of conversation and visual details, which will be thrown at you by the hundreds every minute because the pacing is utterly manic, and the expository downtime is squeezed even further by the once-an-episode action scenes. The plot is a compelling allegory (it's mostly about Japanese rearmament), but doesn't work all that well as a surface-level story - the characters tend to feel more like archetypes than people, and don't have especially clear or easily-followable arcs, and the dialogue is Tomino's usual brand of... special. This leads to the ending feeling rather unearned, since the cast don't really seem to have developed enough to reach it. It's more of a pleasant curiosity than one of the all-time Gundam greats.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:33
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In my opinion, people should watch the movie trilogy of the original Mobile Suit Gundam as their second or third Gundam show. It really helps put all of Gundam into perspective, and sets you up to watch Zeta (the best one).
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Apr 2, 2017 23:38
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Both shows should be 35 episodes for different reasons.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:38
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Darth Walrus posted:the total lack of hand-holding makes it a pretty demanding watch - you have to piece together what's going on from incidental snatches of conversation and visual details I always find this an at least somewhat over-statement because the show has some rather clunky exposition at the very least, like Bellri noting in the first episode what he's doing with the Big Arms on the Recten. Which is weird exposition regardless, because what he's doing is so obvious from the visuals and completely unnecessary. I don't know how much of it is there since I haven't watched the show since it released, but there's definitely some of it. Raraiya also seems to exist mostly to exposit on the G-Self. Which is one of my problems with the show personally. The show is too character packed for it's own good, and the cast could have used some trimming, starting with Raraiya, who didn't take up a huge amount of time or anything, but nothing about her felt necessary or entertaining. Tae posted:Both shows should be 35 episodes for different reasons. I think 26 would have been plenty for IBO to be honest, since a lot of season one feels like wheel spinning. Almost everything from the cast getting to space to landing on Earth feels like it could be highly condensed. I haven't seen season two, but I hear it's much the same in terms of pacing. G-Reco on the other hand I'd have preferred get a full 50. Not because it really needed that many, but because I think the setting is big and interesting enough that I'd have liked the show to have more time to really explore the setting. I wanted to see more of the asteroid colony and Venus and the colonies on the space elevator nuts. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Apr 2, 2017 |
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Apr 2, 2017 23:46
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We can't do that because... *completely unrelated action scene* ... and that's why!!
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Apr 2, 2017 23:47
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tsob posted:Raraiya, nothing about her felt necessary or entertaining. 
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Apr 2, 2017 23:49
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tsob posted:I think 26 would have been plenty for IBO to be honest, since a lot of season one feels like wheel spinning. Almost everything from the cast getting to space to landing on Earth feels like it could be highly condensed. I haven't seen season two, but I hear it's much the same in terms of pacing. G-Reco on the other hand I'd have preferred get a full 50. Not because it really needed that many, but because I think the setting is big and interesting enough that I'd have liked the show to have more time to really explore the setting. I wanted to see more of the asteroid colony and Venus and the colonies on the space elevator nuts. Now that IBO is over I can pretty comfortably say that Season 1 was a whole lot of wasted time. The biggest element of it is probably Kudelia who is a major central focus character but then almost completely sidelined in season 2. If they'd toned down or changed the focus of Kudelia in Season 1 then they probably could have hd a much tighter 26 episode series. As it stands Kudelia doesn't get enough payoff to justify the entire first season revolving around her character.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:53
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ImpAtom posted:Now that IBO is over I can pretty comfortably say that Season 1 was a whole lot of wasted time. The biggest element of it is probably Kudelia who is a major central focus character but then almost completely sidelined in season 2. If they'd toned down or changed the focus of Kudelia in Season 1 then they probably could have hd a much tighter 26 episode series. As it stands Kudelia doesn't get enough payoff to justify the entire first season revolving around her character. I wish they had done more to show the world outside of Tekkadan and Gjallarhorn. Gjallarhorn becoming more democratic at the end would've made more sense if the show had established the economic blocks or popular unrest as being actual potential threats to Gjallarhorn, and that even with the show of force of defeating McGillis, Rustal basically had to accept democratic reforms. Stuff like the colony uprising and the border skirmish from the first half of the second season. A little bit more focus on that would've made the ending feel more earned.
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Apr 2, 2017 23:58
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Tae posted:Generally People that really like IBO really hate G-Reco and vice versa because they are basically the complete opposite ends of pacing and story telling. And, as it turns out, political stance.
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Apr 3, 2017 00:02
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With thunderbolt and origins success, they should really stay away from non uc for a couple years.
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Apr 3, 2017 00:02
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Yeah but do that high quality treatment for some later UC. Flesh out the F91 timeframe.
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Apr 3, 2017 01:43
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Tae posted:Generally People that really like IBO really hate G-Reco and vice versa because they are basically the complete opposite ends of pacing and story telling.  I liked both. 
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Apr 3, 2017 02:43
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https://twitter.com/80s_anime/status/848710616890167297 Goddamn, Tomino 
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Apr 3, 2017 02:56
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Char and Amuro kiss regularly and force their respective crews to watch
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Apr 3, 2017 03:00
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ManSedan posted:Yeah but do that high quality treatment for some later UC. Flesh out the F91 timeframe. Unicorn is an example that they should stick to the one year war era.
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Apr 3, 2017 03:00
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Tae posted:Unicorn is an example that they should stick to the one year war era. I would prefer Gundam as a franchise ending forever than another thousand side stories set in the One Year War.
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Apr 3, 2017 03:13
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Kanos posted:I would prefer Gundam as a franchise ending forever than another thousand side stories set in the One Year War. Man, I'm glad you're not in charge of Sunrise
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Apr 3, 2017 03:46
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Guy Goodbody posted:Man, I'm glad you're not in charge of Sunrise There are so many interesting time periods in Gundam that haven't received one one hundredth of the side story coverage that the OYW has. There are super loving cool OYW side stories like 0080 and Plot to Assassinate Gihren and I love The Origin to death but I want more stuff like Thunderbolt is doing with covering the reconstruction period after the OYW, or more stuff set in the F91 era to flesh that time period out, or stuff linking F91 and V. Hell, there are a lot of really cool AU side stories that you could tell. Hell, just from G, off the top of my head: A side story about Master Asia in his prime and how he came to the conclusions that he did. A story about the wars that led to the establishment of the Gundam Fight. A story about how the people left on Earth in G are continually impacted by the Gundam Fight, fleshing out the uncomfortable implications from episode 1. There's similar interesting hooks in most of their other AU settings as well that don't involve "Hey, look yet another prototype Gundam that was intended for Amuro but never reached him because it had to be used to defeat [INSERT ZEON ACE NO ONE HAS EVER HEARD OF WITH STUPID NICKNAME HERE]".
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Apr 3, 2017 04:25
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Twilight Axis is a lead in to f91
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Apr 3, 2017 06:35
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Kanos posted:I would prefer Gundam as a franchise ending forever than another thousand side stories set in the One Year War. I'm in this boat wholeheartedly. UC in general is boring me to death but OYW is just so hard to stomach, and there's SO MUCH OF IT.
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Apr 3, 2017 06:47
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Kanos posted:There are so many interesting time periods in Gundam that haven't received one one hundredth of the side story coverage that the OYW has. There are super loving cool OYW side stories like 0080 and Plot to Assassinate Gihren and I love The Origin to death but I want more stuff like Thunderbolt is doing with covering the reconstruction period after the OYW, or more stuff set in the F91 era to flesh that time period out, or stuff linking F91 and V. Hell, there are a lot of really cool AU side stories that you could tell. I agree with you that Gundam should do stuff beyond the OYW, but if making a slightly different Zaku and RX-78 every few years is a solid financial investment that let's them try riskier stuff like G-reco or Build Fighters, I'm fine with it. It's not an either/or, it's a yes and. Hell, the only reason we're getting the part of Thunderbolt you like is because of the success of the OYW part.
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Apr 3, 2017 07:10
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Kanos posted:I would prefer Gundam as a franchise ending forever than another thousand side stories set in the One Year War. I would like them to at least stop trying to sneak in BUT BOTH SIDES ARE BAD, ACTUALLY in the middle of a story where one side begins the war by nuking half of humanity.
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Apr 3, 2017 18:51
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I'm struggling to think of the UC shows I haven't liked at this point. Obviously I love 0079, Zeta, 08th MS Team, CCA, Unicorn, and I even like 0083 and F91. It's the AUs I'm more spotty on. I love Wing, IBO, and 00 S1, and G is fun, but the rest hasn't really resonated with me. In my dream lineup I'd love to have Beltorchika's Children animated and a Moriki helmed Hathaway's Flash. Drawn just like the other Moriki series I love, Silent Mobius  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MdfjyKa7bU
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Apr 3, 2017 19:08
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Another reason why 0080 is the best. Instead of going "both sides are bad", it goes "both sides are full of good people with hopes and ideals made into victims by a genocidal regime based on hatred and misunderstanding." Bernie and Cyclops team are good people, but Zeon is absolutely evil
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Apr 3, 2017 19:10
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https://twitter.com/niallcolas_cage/status/848972910123507713
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Apr 3, 2017 20:55
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fivegears4reverse posted:I would like them to at least stop trying to sneak in BUT BOTH SIDES ARE BAD, ACTUALLY in the middle of a story where one side begins the war by nuking half of humanity. Especially when they decided that while one of the sides has an immense amount of WWII Germany imagery, they should portray them as the protagonists.  I'm just saying, there's a lot of 'Zeon is cool' Gundam Anime out there that doesn't really see any issues with dressing them like the Wehrmacht. Arcsquad12 posted:Another reason why 0080 is the best. Instead of going "both sides are bad", it goes "both sides are full of good people with hopes and ideals made into victims by a genocidal regime based on hatred and misunderstanding." This has the proper nuance.
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Apr 3, 2017 20:57
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LuiCypher posted:Especially when they decided that while one of the sides has an immense amount of WWII Germany imagery, they should portray them as the protagonists Thunderbolt's first arc kind of goes there as well. Both sides are brutalised by Zeon, though in very different ways. Second arc just makes the Federation characters pragmatic but decent, while Darryl is functionally a mercenary working for bugnuts insane employers.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:00
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Tae posted:Generally People that really like IBO really hate G-Reco and vice versa because they are basically the complete opposite ends of pacing and story telling. I really like IBO and was sorta bleh on G- Reco. I do think IBO was paced better, though the middle of season 1 was not great and fillerly. So you're sorta right. I'd rather have some filler than G-reco which was so goddamn fast that the show never had a chance to breath. I also appreciated IBO not having a fight scene every episode. I think G-reco had some really good potential, but it was squandered.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:45
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Monaghan posted:I think G-reco had some really good potential, but it was squandered. That's exactly what I think of IBO, funnily enough.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:50
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Thunderbolt is like the inverse of 0080 in a lot of ways. While 0080 focuses on the innocents and the civilian cost of war, Thunderbolt's first arc focuses on the victimization of the soldiers and how far they are pushed before they eventually snap. 0080 is a tragedy, while Thunderbolt is a nightmare scenario.
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Apr 3, 2017 21:52
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IBO was the first Gundam I remained interested enough in to see finished to the end since like SEED (not counting the Turn A simulwatch) and overall I thought it was fine. I have no strong feelings about it, positive or negative. The story didn't really take the direction I was kind of hoping at the outset of season 2 but I couldn't really tell you what would have been my ideal either. Just something about the way a lot of the big dramatic moments went about towards the end just had me going "eh, sure, why not".
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Apr 3, 2017 23:52
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Nate RFB posted:IBO was the first Gundam I remained interested enough in to see finished to the end since like SEED (not counting the Turn A simulwatch) and overall I thought it was fine. I have no strong feelings about it, positive or negative. The story didn't really take the direction I was kind of hoping at the outset of season 2 but I couldn't really tell you what would have been my ideal either. Just something about the way a lot of the big dramatic moments went about towards the end just had me going "eh, sure, why not". Something I was vaguely hoping would happen with s2 early was there being some kinda conflict between the old guard orga-fanatic tekkadan members and the new guys they brought in as the organization got bigger.
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Apr 4, 2017 00:55
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do you guys like dubstep? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKmgw-ZU5-s
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