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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
| K |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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VitalSigns posted:
It is pretty weird how the bad dem apologists always end up arguing that the dems are complete garbage in the end, huh?
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Jul 4, 2017 08:14
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VitalSigns posted:
America is kind of  in case you hadn't noticed.Trump is president now, can't take anything for granted. I'm merely being a realist here.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:26
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Cerebral Bore posted:It is pretty weird how the bad dem apologists always end up arguing that the dems are complete garbage in the end, huh? Who said I was a dem or a dem apologist? America's got the politicians it deserves, for better or worse.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:28
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Bootstrap a better president I can't even pretend surprise anymore.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:42
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Who said I was a Dem apologist, asks breathless defender of everything Democrats do or don't do
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Jul 4, 2017 08:45
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VitalSigns posted:Who said I was a Dem apologist, asks breathless defender of everything Democrats do or don't do That's not true, I didn't say US Democrats were great, I am saying they are what the American public deserve, just like they deserve the US Republicans. It's a flawed system working as intended. Yin and Yang.
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Jul 4, 2017 08:50
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Avirosb posted:That's not true, I didn't say US Democrats were great, I am saying they are what the American public deserve, I dunno if being edgy as gently caress is better than being a bad dem apologist.
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Jul 4, 2017 09:54
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"All the poor and minority Americans deserve this government, like all others" - Political Realist Avirosb
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Jul 4, 2017 09:57
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Playstation 4 posted:"All the poor and minority Americans deserve this government, like all others" - Political Realist Avirosb Barking up the wrong tree here, champ. I'm not the one you need to impress, I didn't make your system and a strawman isn't magically going to change that.
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Jul 4, 2017 10:01
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lol Democrats have objectively demonstrated a total lack of ability to represent the American voter They are not what the voter wants or deserves, they are actively standing in the way of the voter having his pick, a relic held alive by structural forces that have nothing to do with voters, their preferences or behavior
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Jul 4, 2017 10:10
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 2018: We're Not Going To Try, You Don't Deserve Health Care Anyway!
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Jul 4, 2017 10:11
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Don't worry, the Republicans will fix this.
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Jul 4, 2017 10:26
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Dem leadership has no right to clutch pearls about Reps as long as they deliberately empower the GOP by refusing to submit to the popular will and by clinging onto the personal fiefdoms they have carved within the party and the political system.
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 10:28
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Avirosb posted:Barking up the wrong tree here, champ. I ain't American either, but continue with this blissfully enlightening series of statements sure to amaze and educate us all.
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Jul 4, 2017 10:31
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Avirosb posted:Don't worry, the Republicans will fix this. Haven't the dems shown they won't? Why even bring up that republicans won't fix poo poo if the dems refuse to as well?
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Jul 4, 2017 10:32
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Leading Democrats have pegged their politics to the GOP by adopting the strategy of being marginally less regressive instead of trying to be progressive. They have become parasites trying to make a living out of the misery the GOP sows, and so it's hardly possible to talk about them as an independent force that exists and operates on its own. When you say the GOP won't fix things, it follows that the current Democratic party, in effect a shadow appendage of the GOP, won't fix things either since it follows the GOP tune, just adjusted to a slightly different pitch. Hell, you see libs masturbating to the vision of the GOP making vast swathes of their own country worse off because it lowers the standards the Dems will have to maintain in the future to offer them a "better" alternative. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Jul 4, 2017 |
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Jul 4, 2017 10:36
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Playstation 4 posted:I ain't American either, but continue with this blissfully enlightening series of statements sure to amaze and educate us all. If you seek enlightenment then surely you'd be better off avoiding internet armchair discussions about politics, but that's just my hot take. Sorry about the derail.
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Jul 4, 2017 10:40
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Condiv posted:Haven't the dems shown they won't? Why even bring up that republicans won't fix poo poo if the dems refuse to as well? That's not what I wrote though. "Will" does not mean "will not".
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Jul 4, 2017 10:41
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Avirosb posted:I doubt America is mentally prepared for full-on socialism but it would be a welcome surprise. If Dems had a fleshed out, single-payer healthcare bill in the wings, they could not only talk about how terrible the GOP's plan is but also talk about how they'll be able fix healthcare if they're voted into power. Which might, you know, mentally prepare America for something like single payer, or a 50 state public option, or whatever.
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Jul 4, 2017 10:49
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This has to be trolling, it's the most cowardly amoral defense of party power brokers imaginable, even the thread's regular neolibs have higher standards than this.
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Jul 4, 2017 10:57
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The Dems really aren't going to unite behind single payer though. They're going to campaign on improving Obamacare, save for a few senators like Warren speaking out.
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Jul 4, 2017 10:59
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Avirosb posted:That's not what I wrote though. "Will" does not mean "will not". i was under the impression, considering your history in this thread, that you were being sarcastic about the republicans fixing things do you honestly believe the republicans will fix anything?
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Jul 4, 2017 11:02
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Condiv posted:i was under the impression, considering your history in this thread, that you were being sarcastic about the republicans fixing things Serious talk? Honestly, the Reps and the Dems might as well be called "Us" and "Them" and I doubt that schism is going away anytime soon. More weight is put on charisma than political merit and the whole election is treated as a show or sports events. I just don't see a point in trying to change the Democratic Party from within, as I'm sure it would confuse average people even further. Just look what the Tea Party did to the GOP. I'm all for a magical independent party that could build bridges and whatnot (between voters, not necessarily parties) but since not even Bernie dared to run independently then that says a lot. A successful third party could even potentially force the Democratic Party to adapt and adopt on certain policies.
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Jul 4, 2017 11:26
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A change from within need not be like the Tea party, it can just mean ceaselessly pressuring the DNC into allowing all party officials and candidates to be primaried off.
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Jul 4, 2017 11:29
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Avirosb posted:Healthcare is never easy and no matter what they'd say it'd just be Obamacare 2.0 to many. That's not the point. The point is they got tossed an opportunity to throw out literally any hypothetical and in the process communicate to the voters that hey we actually are thinking about this and you and instead they gave bullshit answers
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Jul 4, 2017 12:29
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The issue with the whole "we can't give a lofty goal because we might not achieve it and then people will hate us" excuse is that we just had a president who did exactly that; he came into power promising european style healthcare reform, which he did not achieve....yet he left office with some of the highest approval ratings a prez can have. Why? Because so long as you at least look like you tried voters will forgive coming short of it. That's why Obama's ratings held firm while blue dogs that compromised ACA ended up washed away. It's not lying to the public, it's having a coherent vision and goal that they can trust you to work towards. And this is without the fact that Efficient Renegotiating Tin Plans are just as unlikely as Full Gay Horse Communism Now, so long as bipartisanship is [rightfully] dead and democrats control absolutely nothing.
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Jul 4, 2017 12:35
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Avirosb posted:Barking up the wrong tree here, champ. Strawman? You literally said, Avirosb posted:Who said I was a dem or a dem apologist? Poors and minorities are part of America, dipshit. So yes, you unarguably said that poor and minority Americans deserve the representation they have and thus deserve what happens to them. Don't whine when you're shown the ugliness of your words.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:05
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Who What Now posted:Poors and minorities are part of America, dipshit. America made its own bed and are now currently lying in it. It is what it is.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:19
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The people suffering this poo poo aren't the ones responsible for it, by and large.
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Jul 4, 2017 14:26
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Avirosb posted:Okay, fine, I'll reword my argument: 
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Jul 4, 2017 14:34
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steinrokkan posted:The people suffering this poo poo aren't the ones responsible for it, by and large. Nor am I. When someone shoots another person, it's a tragedy. When someone shoots themselves in the foot, it's hilarious. I really hope America will fix its problems eventually, I really do, but until then there is little else to do than to shake ones head in disbelief. By all means you're a superpower. You should act like it.
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Jul 4, 2017 15:01
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Avirosb posted:Okay, fine, I'll reword my argument: That means exactly the same thing. So how exactly does this rewording make anything better?
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Jul 4, 2017 15:30
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Avirosb posted:Okay, fine, I'll reword my argument: LOL you think voters have any say in the political class's policy decisions. What a loving child. http://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4 https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...4D4893B382B992B quote:By directly pitting the predictions of ideal-type theories against each other within a single statistical model (using a unique data set that includes imperfect but useful measures of the key independent variables for nearly two thousand policy issues), we have been able to produce some striking findings. One is the nearly total failure of "median voter”and other Majoritarian Electoral Democracy theories. When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:09
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Slavery? Seems like you folks have made your bed, better sit back and watch you bootstrap your way out of it.
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Jul 4, 2017 17:12
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Avirosb posted:Okay, fine, I'll reword my argument: I'm just going to jump to the end of this argument and tell you to go to hell. This attitude will lead to the death and insecurity of millions of American citizens.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:38
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Feldegast42 posted:I'm just going to jump to the end of this argument and tell you to go to hell. This attitude will lead to the death and insecurity of millions of American citizens. Maybe we need to be cognizant of our own history and its effects at some point? To be honest, I would say our myopia in the first place is what has caused this, not the recognition of its effect. You can't cheat your way out of history even if it is ugly. I wouldn't be necessarily celebrating destruction (especially since I think plenty of countries are destructive), but at the end of the day, there is a logic to what is happening.
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Jul 4, 2017 18:55
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Ardennes posted:Maybe we need to be cognizant of our own history and its effects at some point? To be honest, I would say our myopia in the first place is what has caused this, not the recognition of its effect. You can't cheat your way out of history even if it is ugly. Bad voting didn't get us here. It was the Supreme Court deciding in the 70s that money=speech. Once bribery became legal your vote meant precisely dick.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:09
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Ardennes posted:Maybe we need to be cognizant of our own history and its effects at some point? To be honest, I would say our myopia in the first place is what has caused this, not the recognition of its effect. You can't cheat your way out of history even if it is ugly. Yeah, everything happens for a reason. Doesn't matter you should be fatalistic.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:35
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Ardennes posted:there is a logic to what is happening. says man in country lead by President Donald Trump.
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Jul 4, 2017 19:36
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Or be fatalistic if you will, but in that case you have no reason not to lash out in one last attempt to spite the powers controlling you towards your death, morituri te salutant
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Jul 4, 2017 19:37
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