UKMT Autumn 2023 - Things have got worse. - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Autumn 2023 - Things have got worse.

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

ThomasPaine posted:

True, but really the whole 'right to exist' thing is just silly. It does exist. No state has a 'right' to exist or not, it either does or it doesn't, and that's down to power, not legalism or philosophy.

So yes, Israel does exist. But I think it's fair to say that things would be better if it didn't, or at least didn't in the shape that it currently is.

that's a tremendously insightful and constructive post, thanks :rolleyes:

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:44

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# ? May 27, 2024 01:23

ThomasPaine: Feb 4, 2009; We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Maybe it's just me hallucinating posts from a previous page but I thought we'd agreed to knock the I/P debating on the head right about the time Miftan, a more universally liked poster than me, posted this:

Whether Israel should exist, or the initial land purchases were valid or not, or if we should roll back Israel's graphics driver to 1967, or 1948 or whatever isn't UK politics; and is far more complex an issue than any of us are capable of without taking the thread over for multiple, very bitter pages in which a lot of people are going to wildly misinterpret each other's points.

That's a very valid point and I missed the post you quoted. I will wind it in unless it's specifically relevant to UK politics. Apologies Miftan, this must be a really difficult time and we should all be a little more sensitive.

crispix posted:

that's a tremendously insightful and constructive post, thanks

My mum says I should be very proud of all my posts and you for one will not take that away from me forums user 'crispix'

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:44

keep punching joe: Jan 22, 2006; Die Satan!

What is UK politics is the fact that outside of the SNP, Greens, and some fringe left groups the whole political and media establishment in the UK is suddenly very ignorant about what constitutes genocide, crimes against humanity, and a proportional response.

Like whether or not Israel should/should not exist is irrelevant currently, there are 2 million people being starved and bombed to death right now, while the best we can hope for from our political leaders is some mealy mouthed platitudes.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:48

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

the people i've encountered who've told me i have no right to exist in the bit of the planet where i was born have always won me over right away

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:49

kingturnip: Apr 18, 2008

Bobby Deluxe posted:

See this is a great example of the disabled advocacy idea of "nothing about us without us."

This entire post frames the disabled or autistic child as almost a ghost. The walking remnants of what 'should have been.' And as an autistic person let me tell you that being treated that way is loving monstrous, whether by clinicians or by your own parents.

Parents shouldn't be encouraged to 'grieve.' Even if in practice that's not what they're being taught to do, those parents will latch on to that word and do their own reading and start allowing themselves to fixate on something that never existed instead of the human being who does.

What they should be taught to do is accept the child they do have, not mourning the imaginary one they assumed they'd have. Again, it's possible that bonding is part of the counselling process but reading through your post it's very much framed as "oh you poor things, an [insert slur here] has been inflicted on you, here's how to not feel sad" rather than "congratulations your child is alive, here's how to love and care for them."

You've read a bit too much into my post, Bobby.
I try very hard to help parents understand and accept the child they've got and at no point am I going to suggest that a parent is grieving to their face - it wouldn't be helpful.
That said, I do think it's important to try to understand the psychology of people in these situations, because it helps me to empathise with them and start to build rapport. The fact is, most of the time you can't change the way someone feels about something as important as their child simply by telling them to. Going down the "I'm a professional, so I know better than you" route is as likely to work as it does in any other situation (not very often). Once you've got a rapport with parents you can start to show them how their child is making progress, which is usually a big part of helping them understand their child better.
I won't speak for every professional, but I try very hard to view every child I work with as an individual.

But saying that we shouldn't grieve "what should have been" isn't realistic either. If I get run over on my way to the shop and acquire life-changing injuries as a result, then even as someone whose ability to detach himself emotionally from bad events is somewhat unhealthy, it's going to take me some time to come to terms with a future that will look very different from how it does now. Regardless of how positive I am towards disability.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:51

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

The United Kingdom has no right to exist, and its continued existence is merely humiliation writ large.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:51

ThomasPaine: Feb 4, 2009; We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

A state =/= its citizens

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:51

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

yes but you find a remarkable correlation between the borders of a state and where its citizens happen to be

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:52

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

jesus christ i'm away to do some DIY, or anything else

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:53

Sir Sidney Poitier: Aug 14, 2006; My favourite actor

Tesseraction posted:

The United Kingdom has no right to exist, and its continued existence is merely humiliation writ large.

Strong Britain, great nation.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 16:54

ThomasPaine: Feb 4, 2009; We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

I said I'll stop posting on the subject but I guess it's important to clarify this. I am not suggesting that anyone does not have the right to live where they were born. I am against the displacement of anyone, and I think individual people should be left alone and allowed to do their thing. This applies all round. I want both Jews and Muslims and whoever else to be able to live peacefully in the same communities without either group having power or advantages over the other.

What I am against is a state apparatus that stands in the way of that by enforcing awful, colonial, racist policies, and can't help but do so because it was designed with that in mind from the ground up. That's it. It has nothing to do with individual people. When I say it would be better if the state of Israel as it currently is didn't exist, I am not saying anything about the peaceful existence of individual Jewish people within its current borders.

I don't think this is really that controversial! Anyway, I'll drop it now.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:04

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

kingturnip posted:

But saying that we shouldn't grieve "what should have been" isn't realistic either. If I get run over on my way to the shop and acquire life-changing injuries as a result, then even as someone whose ability to detach himself emotionally from bad events is somewhat unhealthy, it's going to take me some time to come to terms with a future that will look very different from how it does now. Regardless of how positive I am towards disability.

I don't know man, I think grieving 'what should have been' is very unhealthy, especially when it means someone viewing their disabled child as a broken version of what they really wanted.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:04

keep punching joe: Jan 22, 2006; Die Satan!

Tesseraction posted:

The United Kingdom has no right to exist, and its continued existence is merely humiliation writ large.

God willing we will see its end soon.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:05

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

I was out today so apologies for lateness.

Monica Bellucci posted:

When the IDF makes you start siding with Hitler...

This is absolutely not OK. I very much hope this was simply utterly thoughtless and something you will feel ashamed of upon a moment of reflection. If you post anything like this again I will do everything in my power to get you booted the gently caress out of everywhere I can because if you think this you are just a nazi, and I have no tolerance for those.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:13

Surprise T Rex: Apr 9, 2008; Dinosaur Gum

Speaking of the UK and nation states in general, this is the thing that's never made sense to me re: nationalism - a thousand years ago Britain didn't exist in a form we'd recognize, it's just one of many incarnations of an imaginary national boundaries that we've all agreed on... so what makes this one any more or less valid than any that has previously existed, or that may exist in the future?

Also, where do you stop? The UK? Great Britain? England? Why not Nottinghamshire, or even the specific street you live on? Should nationalists feel this way about every ever-smaller circle you can care to define around themselves and their birthplace?

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:17

kecske: Feb 28, 2011; it's round, like always

frytechnician posted:

Back from the London protest. Absolutely massive turnout so props to all who could make it. Think this might have even been bigger than the last two.

the footage of the crowd on tv looked impressive, just stretching off into the distance

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:29

Diet Crack: Jan 15, 2001

The last time I saw crowds stretching beyond visibility in protest of something in the UK, it sped up the process of the very thing it was against.

So I expect the RAF to be joining the IDF barrage any minute now

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:31

Nuclear Spoon: Aug 18, 2010; I want to cry out
but I don’t scream and I don’t shout
And I feel so proud
to be alive

i got to embankment around the time the tail was leaving and it was quite some sight seeing all the flags moving across westminster bridge from the riverside

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:31

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

Ive always thought that countries were just stepping stones to bigger and bigger unified groups.

You initially had your family pride or group. Then tribe. Then town/city. Then county/fiefdom. Then country.
We've started on the next stage with trading blocks with shared laws.
Eventually it will be just be one big mutually agreed world with local areas of self rule, Star Trek style.
But of course religion, greed, and flag shagging has hosed this up.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:32

kecske: Feb 28, 2011; it's round, like always

Here is a twitter video for those who use it, for those who don't it's a short clip of the protest crowd in London today.

https://twitter.com/TurkiShalhoub/status/1718241213596196973/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1718241213596196973&currentTweetUser=TurkiShalhoub

# ? Oct 28, 2023 17:46

StarkingBarfish: Jun 25, 2006; Novus Ordo Seclorum

https://twitter.com/michelledonelan/status/1718291791861182514

Just the secretary of state responsible for the uk's government research funding organisation publicly naming researchers who've expressed solidarity with Palestine and demanding the closure of its EDI body. That is clearly intended to have a chilling effect on academic freedom.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 18:03

HopperUK: Apr 29, 2007; Why would an ambulance be leaving the hospital?

Monica Bellucci posted:

When the IDF makes you start siding with Hitler...

loving hell, gently caress you.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 18:10

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

I would also prefer not to see generic I/P debates that don't relate to the UK here, both because people have asked for it to be taken elsewhere and because there are like 8 other threads for that; I even already read some of them! But I especially would not like to see Nazi apologia ITT.

Basically,

Mesopotamia posted:

Shut the gently caress up

Future Video GamesUK posted:

loving hell, gently caress you.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 18:26

kecske: Feb 28, 2011; it's round, like always

Future Video GamesUK posted:

loving hell, gently caress you.

free tankbuster

# ? Oct 28, 2023 19:33

Apraxin: Feb 22, 2006; General-Admiral

Yeah i don�t much like posting about posters, and we should probably be moving on from I/P stuff anyway, but will add to the chorus that we absolutely do not need anyone Handing it to Hitler itt, for gently caress�s sake.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 19:44

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

Wotsits, classic cheese or flaming hot?
DECIDE NOW!

# ? Oct 28, 2023 19:48

Diet Crack: Jan 15, 2001

Ready Salted? Get the gently caress out

# ? Oct 28, 2023 19:52

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

I've never had a flaming hot wotsit, and now I never will because I'm vegan, and this makes me very sad. I mourn the loss of the flaming hot wotsits that I never had a chance to eat.

Also thanks for knocking the I/P stuff on the head so fast and telling the nazi poo poo to gently caress off. Y'all are good people.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:01

keep punching joe: Jan 22, 2006; Die Satan!

Does the thread have any strong feelings on Nik Naks?

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:05

Bobby Deluxe: May 9, 2004

Scampi and Lemon are better than Rib n Saucy

Nice n Spicy are a poor 3rd choice.

happyhippy posted:

Wotsits, classic cheese or flaming hot?
DECIDE NOW!

Flaming hot cheese, this is the only compromise politics I will advicate for.

Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Oct 28, 2023

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:06

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

keep punching joe posted:

Does the thread have any strong feelings on Nik Naks?

I have mixed feelings on what they do to the Irish vs. providing bones to dogs.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:06

Noxville: Dec 7, 2003

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Nice n Spicy are a poor 3rd choice.

What the absolute gently caress

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:30

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

keep punching joe posted:

Does the thread have any strong feelings on Nik Naks?

They are rare as gently caress to get here.
And not enough in a bag too.
If they sold them in like 1 pound weight sizes or such instead, they would make more money than Elon.

Scampi Fries > Bacon Fries.

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:33

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

kecske posted:

Here is a twitter video for those who use it, for those who don't it's a short clip of the protest crowd in London today.

https://twitter.com/TurkiShalhoub/status/1718241213596196973/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1718241213596196973&currentTweetUser=TurkiShalhoub

I'm sorry but this must be misinformation: I've just checked the UK press and none of them are even mentioning this supposed 'protest'!

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:35

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

keep punching joe posted:

Does the thread have any strong feelings on Nik Naks?

I recently had a big bag of the scampi and they must have hosed up in the factory and double seasoned them because my breath felt like it could melt walls it was great

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:48

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

wonder if furries are a significant market segment for scampi fries

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:50

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

eating them for to give themselves cat breath

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:50

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

happyhippy posted:

Wotsits, classic cheese or flaming hot?
DECIDE NOW!

Classic cheese, obviously

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:51

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

crispix posted:

eating them for to give themselves cat breath

if they managed to get them sold double strength as standard it would further the healing and reconciliation process certainly

# ? Oct 28, 2023 20:56

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# ? May 27, 2024 01:23

crispix: Mar 28, 2015; Grand-Maman m'a raconté
_{(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)}

Hello, dear

i once found a big lump of flavouring salt in a bag of cheese and onion mccoys and i ate it :hehe:

# ? Oct 28, 2023 21:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT Autumn 2023 - Things have got worse.

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