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I'll be shocked if this isn't just Ciampa loving with Gargano again because he thinks it's easier to beat Gargano than Black.
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Nov 29, 2018 18:58
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Why is Gargano/Black in a cage to begin with? I thought Black winning clean at Takeover was pretty definitively the end of that sector of the feud.
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Nov 29, 2018 20:02
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oldskool posted:Why is Gargano/Black in a cage to begin with? I thought Black winning clean at Takeover was pretty definitively the end of that sector of the feud. Ciampa was the one who suggested the match, which is why I think it was his way of ducking Black, but we'll see.
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Nov 29, 2018 20:07
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SamuraiFoochs posted:Evil DIY owns, why are people bitching? No clue. I like the angle.
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Nov 29, 2018 20:15
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:I dunno , most of the people I've talked to about Sane/Baszler has said that all of the matches have been good but we don't really need match number 6 or 7 or however many it is now. Yeah, well it seems like they are setting up for either Kairi or Io to take the title from Shayna in the next few Takeovers. I can't imagine WWE putting off calling up Shayna for much longer (She should honestly debut on RAW after Wrestlemania). And there isn't much interest in a Bianca/Shayna match right now since both work as arrogant heels you are supposed to hate. Which makes me feel like Kairi was supposed to be added to the match, but couldn't due to illness. We'll see if that changes at the next set of tapings, but if it isn't, I could easily say that Shayna/Bianca will be the weakest title defense in quite some time from a storytelling and wrestling perspective. I figured they are running it just to finish up the "Bianca is demanding a title shot" storyline.
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Nov 29, 2018 20:15
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oldskool posted:Why is Gargano/Black in a cage to begin with? I thought Black winning clean at Takeover was pretty definitively the end of that sector of the feud. Ciampa said it should be basically. It felt like the end of a feud at Takeover to me too, like it was time to pull back and give Gargano a program with Ricochet or something.
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Nov 29, 2018 20:26
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SamuraiFoochs posted:Evil DIY owns, why are people bitching? Because Johnny turning heel and teaming up with Ciampa again six months after this:  Is fuckin' stupid.
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Nov 29, 2018 20:36
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I blame Black for getting injured tbh
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Nov 29, 2018 20:45
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Sting won the belt at Superbrawl why are you complaining?
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Nov 29, 2018 21:06
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DarkstarIV posted:Yeah, well it seems like they are setting up for either Kairi or Io to take the title from Shayna in the next few Takeovers. I can't imagine WWE putting off calling up Shayna for much longer (She should honestly debut on RAW after Wrestlemania). And there isn't much interest in a Bianca/Shayna match right now since both work as arrogant heels you are supposed to hate. Which makes me feel like Kairi was supposed to be added to the match, but couldn't due to illness. We'll see if that changes at the next set of tapings, but if it isn't, I could easily say that Shayna/Bianca will be the weakest title defense in quite some time from a storytelling and wrestling perspective. I figured they are running it just to finish up the "Bianca is demanding a title shot" storyline. I don't think Kairi is winning it back. She's already had 5 matches with Shayna and I think the feud, while the matches have been good, has gone on a long time and it's time for Shayna to move on to another opponent.
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Nov 29, 2018 21:24
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OctoberCountry posted:Sting won the belt at Superbrawl why are you complaining? This is a loving stupid response and they're not equivalent at all. Let's put aside the fact that Black legit getting injured was the catalyst for the angle (even though it's significant). The motivations of all the characters make perfect sense. Johnny was basically driven mad by the feud with Ciampa. He got absolutely tunnel visioned about ANYTHING other than ridding NXT of him. That obsession led him to attack Aleister. In that moment, Johnny was changed and he realized the benefits of a means to an end, hence why he's a heel who thinks he's a face. Once Aleister returned, Johnny had a new obstacle he needs to get rid of. But he can't beat Black on his own. That was proven at Takeover. So he has Ciampa help him. It makes sense for Ciampa because he is at least temporarily taking out two of his biggest foes in one swoop. So again, even if you ignore the non-kayfabe reasons for the turn which you probably shouldn't, there's plenty of logic in what they're doing. Johnny is loving nuts and has been for a long time and Ciampa is both nuts in a slightly different way (but not as much as one might think; both DIY members are CONVINCED it's their story and no one else's) and also manipulating Johnny, which is also consistent with their characters. Johnny has always been naive and Ciampa has always been self obsessed.
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Nov 30, 2018 00:09
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Yeah, it's solid twisted heel logic that Johnny's so obsessed with being the one to beat Ciampa that he would actually cooperate with Ciampa to take out someone who could do it before him.
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Nov 30, 2018 00:36
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how did he get so evil
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Nov 30, 2018 00:45
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SamuraiFoochs posted:This is a loving stupid response and they're not equivalent at all. Let's put aside the fact that Black legit getting injured was the catalyst for the angle (even though it's significant). The motivations of all the characters make perfect sense. lol
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Nov 30, 2018 00:56
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yea ok posted:how did he get so evil I'm being 100% sincere when I say this. You hear a LOT about single incidents taking someone who is already on the edge of something mentally bad into full on crazy town when a previously upstanding person completely gives into urges and/or some sort of twisted sense of mission. Human brains are interesting like that.
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Nov 30, 2018 00:56
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Awesome rebuttal, dude. It's not ideal to turn Johnny heel but doing so only happened because of a legitimate injury and even in storyline it makes sense if you think about it for five seconds. It's not like a brilliant swerve or anything but NXT definitely made chicken salad out of chicken poo poo in this case and comparing it to a bad decision made by WCW that was a big part of cratering the company is really dumb.
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Nov 30, 2018 01:01
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SamuraiFoochs posted:I'm being 100% sincere when I say this. You hear a LOT about single incidents taking someone who is already on the edge of something mentally bad into full on crazy town when a previously upstanding person completely gives into urges and/or some sort of twisted sense of mission. Human brains are interesting like that. when will you give in to those urges, foochs. how much longer can you hold out
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Nov 30, 2018 01:05
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Baron Corbin posted:when will you give in to those urges, foochs. how much longer can you hold out Depends on how much longer I have to read your bullshit, how bout that (Honestly kidding, love you buddy)
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Nov 30, 2018 01:07
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I'm just sick of Gsrgano/Ciampa because it took a legitimately amazing fued and dragged it into whatever melodrama. It also made Black into a 3rd wheel when he had the belt. If they just put the story on the shelf and waited a few months before the DIY guys came to blows I think I would like it more. Ciampa getting hurt and the year long wait for Johnny's revenge was the best thing that could of happened and they should take the hint that blood fueds need to go slow or else the audience just gets fatigued.
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Nov 30, 2018 01:13
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Gumball Gumption posted:I'm just sick of Gsrgano/Ciampa because it took a legitimately amazing fued and dragged it into whatever melodrama. It also made Black into a 3rd wheel when he had the belt. If they just put the story on the shelf and waited a few months before the DIY guys came to blows I think I would like it more. Ciampa getting hurt and the year long wait for Johnny's revenge was the best thing that could of happened and they should take the hint that blood fueds need to go slow or else the audience just gets fatigued. This is a fair take but also doesn't change the fact that what they're doing makes sense even if it's not your scene and Aleister getting hurt borderline necessitated the chain of events that got us here.
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Nov 30, 2018 01:21
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heel gargano makes me really not want to watch nxt.
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Nov 30, 2018 01:24
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STONE COLD 64 posted:heel gargano makes me really not want to watch nxt. I haven't checked spoilers (ironic, right), didn't Black kicked the heel outta Gargano's head?
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Nov 30, 2018 01:41
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Dias posted:I haven't checked spoilers (ironic, right), didn't Black kicked the heel outta Gargano's head? Nope. They have a cage match, Ciampa interferes, and he and Johnny hit the DIY finish on Black to let Gargano win.
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Nov 30, 2018 02:14
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SamuraiFoochs posted:This is a fair take but also doesn't change the fact that what they're doing makes sense even if it's not your scene and Aleister getting hurt borderline necessitated the chain of events that got us here. True, and maybe they're doing what I think the right move would be, don't reform DIY and don't have Johnny and Ciampa be friends. Give Ciampa a series of matches that Johnny keeps interfearing on to give Ciampa the win. Build all that up into a rematch. God I hope we don't get a heel DIY, it would be a very main roster "all the heels and faces are fiends with the other heels and faces"
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Nov 30, 2018 02:27
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Gumball Gumption posted:True, and maybe they're doing what I think the right move would be, don't reform DIY and don't have Johnny and Ciampa be friends. Give Ciampa a series of matches that Johnny keeps interfearing on to give Ciampa the win. Build all that up into a rematch. I think a single tag match is the best of both worlds. You can have Ciampa and Gargano slip back into old habits before one remembers how much they hate the other, and maybe have Black and Dream start off not working well together but gelling more and more as DIY fall apart. Have it culminate in a Black Mass followed by the elbow drop and whichever heel isn't taking the fall decides not to break up the pin.
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Nov 30, 2018 02:30
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Gaz-L posted:I think a single tag match is the best of both worlds. You can have Ciampa and Gargano slip back into old habits before one remembers how much they hate the other, and maybe have Black and Dream start off not working well together but gelling more and more as DIY fall apart. Have it culminate in a Black Mass followed by the elbow drop. DIY immediately fights each other while Black Velvet just hands them weapons.
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Nov 30, 2018 02:32
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SamuraiFoochs posted:This is a loving stupid response and they're not equivalent at all. Let's put aside the fact that Black legit getting injured was the catalyst for the angle (even though it's significant). The motivations of all the characters make perfect sense. Black had already lost the title by the time he got hurt, it's not a good excuse for any of this crap. The story already sucked and had massively backtracked on itself way before Black got hurt, it's just somehow managed to get way worse since then. I've already said this twice, but I guess I'll just say it again, Johnny spent the close to a year getting the crap kicked out of him and losing at every turn after DIY broke up, culminating with Ciampa costing him both the NXT Championship and his spot in NXT. He beat Ciampa, got his revenge, stepped out of the shadow of DIY, earned his spot in NXT back in a bit of catharsis that had been coming since June of the previous year, and then they immediately follow it up by running the Gargano/Ciampa feud back to increasingly diminishing returns, they have it kill Aleister Black's title reign on freaking NXT TV, and they have Gargano immediately start losing every big match again except now he's losing for the most stupid, contrived reasons possible. He gets the biggest win of his life, then he spends like six months being a complete moron of a babyface, and now he's dead as a babyface so he turns heel and now that he's a heel, he's buddies with the guy that he loving hated when he was a face. Hoo-ray. It's loving WWE main roster 101 and it can gently caress off.
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Nov 30, 2018 02:34
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Gumball Gumption posted:God I hope we don't get a heel DIY, it would be a very main roster "all the heels and faces are fiends with the other heels and faces" It was cool seeing Owens and Zayn be both heels for like the month everyone thought this time it'd be different and it'd all work out. Now they're both out hurt until like Mania and it's unanimously considered the best thing that could have happened to either of them, because both were bad loser geeks for half a year before then
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Nov 30, 2018 02:38
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To be fair, Gargano lost to Almas clean in January. Arguably the return match for the title didn't really make sense because, like, it's not like Ciampa cost him the belt at Takeover. Almas was just better. Chris James 2 posted:It was cool seeing Owens and Zayn be both heels for like the month everyone thought this time it'd be different and it'd all work out. Now they're both out hurt until like Mania and it's unanimously considered the best thing that could have happened to either of them, because both were bad loser geeks for half a year before then That wasn't to do with them being a team, though. They would've been just as badly positioned as individuals. Probably worse. Because Kev is a fat dude who isn't 8 feet tall, so Vince thinks he's useless, and Sami's a little dude who is great at getting sympathy as a face, and is therefore even more useless to Vince.
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Nov 30, 2018 02:42
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They can do whatever they want as long as it leads to fresh matchups that are great.
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Nov 30, 2018 02:46
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Black's injury was the catalyst for the loving garbage Whoodunit angle that legit made me stop watching weekly NXT
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Nov 30, 2018 03:00
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Benne posted:Black's injury was the catalyst for the loving garbage Whoodunit angle that legit made me stop watching weekly NXT And that got Nikki Cross over as one of the biggest stars on the show. Hell, the usual problem with whodunit angles is that they don't decide on who the culprit is until the payoff and don't care if it makes sense. With this one, Gargano was a suspect from the off with the obvious reasoning that he didn't want Black involved in the match. And guess what, that was the answer and it makes sense. I thought that was supposed to be good in wrestling?
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Nov 30, 2018 03:03
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I'm on team Foochs
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Nov 30, 2018 03:05
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who wants to talk about how bad bianca belair's gear is
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Nov 30, 2018 03:07
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foochs is right for once, where as i am right all the time and agree with him so it’s about 1.6 rights
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Nov 30, 2018 03:11
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Benne posted:Black's injury was the catalyst for the loving garbage Whoodunit angle that legit made me stop watching weekly NXT The one time I'll ever be fair to NXT: at least that whodunit angle had a payoff. More than Hideo will ever get
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Nov 30, 2018 03:13
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Chris James 2 posted:The one time I'll ever be fair to NXT: at least that whodunit angle had a payoff. More than Hideo will ever get https://twitter.com/HighSpotPodcast/status/1027574235928174592
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Nov 30, 2018 03:18
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NXT is good
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Nov 30, 2018 03:49
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if NXT is to be critiqued so strongly i believe it deserves status above 'developmental' in the championship title poll. otherwise Stop talking bad about it immediately or else.
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Nov 30, 2018 03:51
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VJeff posted:Black had already lost the title by the time he got hurt, it's not a good excuse for any of this crap. The story already sucked and had massively backtracked on itself way before Black got hurt, it's just somehow managed to get way worse since then. I've already said this twice, but I guess I'll just say it again, Johnny spent the close to a year getting the crap kicked out of him and losing at every turn after DIY broke up, culminating with Ciampa costing him both the NXT Championship and his spot in NXT. He beat Ciampa, got his revenge, stepped out of the shadow of DIY, earned his spot in NXT back in a bit of catharsis that had been coming since June of the previous year, and then they immediately follow it up by running the Gargano/Ciampa feud back to increasingly diminishing returns, they have it kill Aleister Black's title reign on freaking NXT TV, and they have Gargano immediately start losing every big match again except now he's losing for the most stupid, contrived reasons possible. Black getting hurt wasn't the impetus for the title change but literally every other detail of this angle happened because of it. Also until they hug it out we don't even know that they're friends. Guys who were friends but now hate each other but are faced with a common enemy put aside their differences for a moment all the loving time. Doesn't always mean they're friends again.
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Nov 30, 2018 04:28
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