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Those are long out of production, and it wasn't a big run to start with. Most you can do is keep looking, and be prepared to pay through the nose.
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May 9, 2017 08:08
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Kanos posted:Bright's son is a direct product of Bright being a lovely, awful, neglectful father. He's exactly like Quess in that he's a child who was completely abandoned and ignored by people who should have been there to help and guide them and thus ended up lashing out at the world in an awful manner because of it. Hathaway is a dumb little poo poo because the Universal Century is filled with literally billions of war orphans at this point, and the vast majority do not end up being completely irredeemable like he does. The excuse of "well father was away doing his job" kinda falls thin as far as accusations of Bright Noa being "lovely, awful, and neglectful" when he was trying to save a planet/hundreds of millions of people, and leave things so that there could be a future of SOME sort for his wife and children. Like, Bright Noa may not have been the nicest parent, or present all the time, but it's just a Gundam thing to say "adults are lovely and look at what happens!!!" In Hathaway's case it ought to be "Here's an rear end in a top hat who didn't get the proper Gundam-style discipline he ends up deserving more than just about any other child character in the entire franchise, and look at what happens." Hathaway tragedy isn't that "daddy was never there for me", it's that he never got over being responsible for killing Quess in the novel version of CCA's events, or for being unable to save Quess from a battle she was manipulated into being a part of by the actual real rear end in a top hat of UC. From the moment he murdered Chan, he was locked into being what ultimately becomes. Couple that with the Federation being permanently Actually Worse Than Zeon No Really You Guys mode, you have an angry dude who probably hates the poo poo out of himself. The only reason he didn't get around to eating his own bullets is likely because he discovered it was easier to project that anger at something convenient and ever present. I don't believe he even expresses regret for murdering someone who didn't intend to kill the crush he met last week, which also sticks him somewhere in the "Get hosed" list, as far as Gundam protagonists are concerned. That's just me though, I'm firmly of the belief that Bright Noa deserved better after the life he's lived. I do find Hathaway interesting, because he's pretty much the best example of how the whole "ADULTS hosed IT UP, IT'S UP TO YOUTH TO YOUTH THINGS BACK TO BETTER AGAIN" schtick of the Universal Century is wishful thinking at best. Humanity isn't hosed up because ADULTS made it that way. Humanity is hosed up because Humanity Has Always Been hosed Up. We're monsters that can take the prodigal sons and daughters of literally the best and worst our species has to offer, and grind them into paste on the sacrificial altar dedicated to how monstrously hosed up we can truly be towards each other. Nobody is immune to it, from regular dudes to spacenoids who shouted "But Even So" at the world. There may be greedy adults in the world, and they may very well be responsible for a lot of bad poo poo, but whomever and whatever comes after them still has to make the right decisions with the time they have. When they don't, well, you get people like Hathaway Noa.
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May 9, 2017 09:41
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fivegears4reverse posted:Hathaway is a dumb little poo poo because the Universal Century is filled with literally billions of war orphans at this point, and the vast majority do not end up being completely irredeemable like he does. The excuse of "well father was away doing his job" kinda falls thin as far as accusations of Bright Noa being "lovely, awful, and neglectful" when he was trying to save a planet/hundreds of millions of people, and leave things so that there could be a future of SOME sort for his wife and children. Like, Bright Noa may not have been the nicest parent, or present all the time, but it's just a Gundam thing to say "adults are lovely and look at what happens!!!" In Hathaway's case it ought to be "Here's an rear end in a top hat who didn't get the proper Gundam-style discipline he ends up deserving more than just about any other child character in the entire franchise, and look at what happens." That is an interesting thing about IBO in the general series context, I suppose. Rustal is arguably the most "adult" of any of the major characters, and probably pretty high up there for the franchise in general. Where most characters chase after ideals and struggle for understanding, Rustal is a man both in and of the system, someone who sends young men and women to die from the comfort of a desk instead of sallying in a MS. He's even a substitute parent to a couple of his pilots. His antagonist role in season 2 is obviously pretty in-keeping with the general trends, and it fits that his opponent is the young, dynamic, and charismatic McGillis Fareed, someone who never quite seems to have grown up, who eagerly seeks the aid and approval of Tekkadan's child soldiers, the protagonists who've been poo poo on and exploited all their lives. So far, so simple. Yay youth, boo adults, poo poo sucks and always will it be thus. But even before the end, and even ignoring McGillis's sketchier traits, there's pretty glaring cracks in that worldview come season 2, in the persons of Kudelia Aina Bernstein and Iok Kujan. Technically, Kudelia's still pretty drat young. Twenty at the outside, and likely much closer to eighteen. But her design is aged up post timeskip more than anyone else, and that's for some obvious reasons. She's the person connected to Tekkadan who grew up. Where most "peace princesses" go in for big speeches and high ideals, Kudelia's approach is to accept money from murderous arms dealers so she can afford to lobby for incremental improvements to the Martian economy. She's made her peace with the world, even if she hates herself for it. Iok's about the same age, but you'd never guess it from his behavior. He's all for the heroic charges, brash announcements of rivalry, and personal loyalty over more practical goals. Even Julieta treats him like a kid, and she once tried to eat a butterfly. Kudelia makes multiple worlds better places, and other characters, even when they don't like her, acknowledge she's the kind of person who can get things done. Iok fucks everything up. And in the end... Rustal, the guy who'd be used as a posterboy for Adults Ruin Everything in a lot of past Gundams, shakes hands with Kudelia to make things significantly less hosed. He and Kudelia come out on top because they were the adults, and for good and ill, it's the people who know how the world works who are able to change it. Meanwhile, the children who tried to change the world with violence and ideals wound up dead. It's an interesting contrast from the standard, is what I'm getting at.
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May 9, 2017 11:04
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The Muffinlord posted:Well, I can't, but I suppose out there is some theoretical human being who could. It's hardly a a theoretical given the show and it's gunpla's commercial reception. It's well loved here, and perhaps a few other places (/m/ seems to love it on the whole, despite vocal opposition to that view, so do some Japanese fans) but it's overwhelming reception is and always has been pretty negative. Though at least part of that appears to be people being off put by the designs and look of the show and just not trying it. Some do and just don't like the show's pacing or focus on characters though, wanting more action and for the pacing to speed up/more stuff to happen. The show does seem to be getting more popular over the years on the other hand, even if only incrementally. fivegears4reverse posted:Hathaway tragedy isn't that "daddy was never there for me", it's that he never got over being responsible for killing Quess in the novel version of CCA's events I think part of the tragedy of Hathaway is that no matter how good the person or their intentions they can turn out badly. Bright had the very best of intentions by leaving Mirai to raise their children, since he felt he had to stop Char and in the end Char's plans threatened not just his wife and kids but the entire planet - but despite his intentions Hathaway grew up without a solid father figure in his life and lacking any wanting to emulate Amuro as the glorious pilot who saved the girl/day and it just wasn't to be. He just didn't have the time to improve enough as a pilot or to grow enough as a person if nothing else, since his story is the second string to a movie not the primary one of a show. That said, we never know what becomes of Char's Counterattack Hathaway, so he could have eventually come to accept responsibility for killing Chan. The Beltorchika's Children version never did, but it's odd to lump them together and say the Char's Counterattack version didn't, since the one in Char's Counterattack flat out won't ever attack Quess, not even when she's being dangerous to his allies and the one in Beltorchika's Children kills her by accident when he shoots her suit in what's meant to be a warning and to shock her since she's trying to attack Amuro. I would however note as soon as Chan explodes he gets a panicy look, suggesting to me that like the events of Beltorchika's Children he shot Chan by accident and he was mostly just venting his anger and emotional turmoil when he started wildly shooting at her. That doesn't mean she didn't die of course, or that he ends up taking responsibility for it (the alternate one doesn't for shooting Quess in similar circumstances after all), but it does make him more relatable and tragic for me. fivegears4reverse posted:That's just me though, I'm firmly of the belief that Bright Noa deserved better after the life he's lived. I also wouldn't be taking Bright's life as definitely hosed, presuming you mean the events of Hathaway's Flash, where he finds out he's ordered his son's execution. Bright so far as we know just continued as a military man in to Unicorn, apparently mellowing out even more and trying to encourage youth to fix the problems around them. I like the idea he retires and opens a restaurant as the other part of the Hathaway's Flash scenario for him, but beyond Unicorn there's nothing and that's a happy enough ending point. chiasaur11 posted:Stuff on Kudelia and Rustal The significance would probably be more apparent, or at least more noteworthy if Kudelia had had any real role in season two, or if any of that stuff had occurred on screen during the show's run, instead of happening off screen during a montage in the last couple of minutes of the show. Rustal has the same issue, since he doesn't pursue or contemplate helping the system or changing it during the show, only in the last five minutes during a montage. You can see why he would looking back through the show's run, but it doesn't make it any more satisfying that his character was the one to change the setting so much when he doesn't show any real care for that during the show itself. Nor does it make him more interesting in a "adults can be the ones to change the system, even somewhat villainous ones" way. tsob fucked around with this message at 12:31 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 12:15
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fivegears4reverse posted:Hathaway is a dumb little poo poo because the Universal Century is filled with literally billions of war orphans at this point, and the vast majority do not end up being completely irredeemable like he does. The excuse of "well father was away doing his job" kinda falls thin as far as accusations of Bright Noa being "lovely, awful, and neglectful" when he was trying to save a planet/hundreds of millions of people, and leave things so that there could be a future of SOME sort for his wife and children. Like, Bright Noa may not have been the nicest parent, or present all the time, but it's just a Gundam thing to say "adults are lovely and look at what happens!!!" In Hathaway's case it ought to be "Here's an rear end in a top hat who didn't get the proper Gundam-style discipline he ends up deserving more than just about any other child character in the entire franchise, and look at what happens." You can't conflate novel Hathaway and movie Hathaway because they are effectively two different characters with two entirely different life paths, so don't mix them. I'm discussing movie Hathaway. The billions of war orphans in Gundam 1. aren't newtypes and thus dramatically affected by emotions in ways that normal humans don't understand and 2. don't have access to mobile suits at the time when someone kills someone they care about. Movie Hathaway is not a cold-blooded killer. He didn't plan to fly out and shoot Chan to death; it happened in the heat of the moment, in a flash of anger. Don't try to go "well, Bright could have been a father to his son but he was busy SAVING THE WORLD FROM IMMINENT EXTINCTION". Hathaway is 13 years old in CCA. There were roughly a billion opportunities in the preceding decade for Bright to set down his military responsibilities to be there for his family(his family, not just his son), or to try to get transferred to a post that didn't require him to be Front Line Deep Space Captain, but he chose not to. Bright's sense of overall responsibility makes him a selfless, heroic figure, but his abandonment of his family for a nebulous "good cause" makes him an individually lovely father and husband, and it's possible for him to be both of these things without there being a contradiction. The fact remains that because Hathaway is Bright's child, Bright bears some responsibility for Hathaway's actions just as Adenaur bears some responsibility for Quess's. Gundam repeatedly establishes that being a newtype, especially a child newtype, makes you loving crazy by normal standards and I think you're being really, really harsh on Hathaway for being a murderer considering what Amuro and Kamille could have become but for the slimmest of chances and a heaping helping of narrative luck. Amuro was a shut-in who would have barely noticed his colony collapsing around him without Frau; even when he was forced to be a pilot, there were several occasions where he nearly murdered the gently caress out of the entire White Base crew in a fit of pique or selfishness by stealing the Gundam at random or refusing to fight despite everyone else's life being at risk. Kamille was an actual sociopath who physically assaulted the equivalent of SS troopers for making fun of his name, then stole a Gundam and began the process of torturing the MP who beat him up while laughing like a psychopath before events forced him to stop. Both of these characters benefited from having father figure(s) and a supporting crew of friends and comrades to set them on the right path, with a healthy dose of luck and coincidence to give them a chance to not cross the line and commit their sin. Imagine how different it would have been if Kamille hadn't been interrupted and had actually physically hurt the MP, or if Amuro hadn't made it back quite in time when he jacked the Gundam and people had died? Hathaway had none of that luck. No convenient coincidence happens to interrupt him before he makes his fatal mistake, and he had no supporting cast to help prevent him from making that mistake in the first place. He doesn't have time to express real regret for what he's done because the movie doesn't linger on it because it's swelling into the conclusion, but I'm willing to bet that as a newtype child who feels emotions more strongly than any normal person ever could his reaction will probably a black hole of self-loathing and horror. I do agree with your final statement on some level. Hathaway's life and actions are an example of how simply waiting for a future generation to sort everything out will never, ever work, because the future generation can easily be twisted and ruined by the actions of the current generation. It takes cooperation between the current and future generations to achieve anything of lasting value.
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May 9, 2017 14:55
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I think what they're saying with Kudelia is actually much more cynical than that. It was McGillis and Tekkadan's rebellion that shocked the world into action, and Kudelia was simply photogenic and inoffensive enough to get the credit for it. That certainly fits with a number of elements in the story. She's sidelined during Season Two, her most individually heroic act at the end is the quiet rebellion of honouring Tekkadan's memories and giving the survivors a second chance, and it's Tekkadan and McGillis who had the strongest impact on the implied heirs of Gjallarhorn, Gaelio and Julietta. Not to mention the particularly Japanese historical baggage of her and Rustal's photo op, and the fact that the Dawn Horizon arc ends with her authorising the deaths of her former comrades in the Martian independence movement when they start making trouble. IBO's delving into the classic prisoner's dilemma for its underclasses. You can only change the system by engaging in violent, drastic action, but you are almost certainly going to die and/or be villainised for it (not least because oppression is inherently degrading and dehumanising for its victims, driving them to horrific acts and horrific ideologies out of desperation). On the other hand, while peaceful incrementalism won't achieve much, it does mean that when success is won through violence, you'll get the praise. It's really not all that far out of the UC's thematic ballpark.
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May 9, 2017 16:10
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I think it's interesting that, in Super Robot Wars V, the thing that separates the timeline where Hathaway became Mufti and the one where he doesn't is that Chan lived in the second one (and he got a support network of Super Robot friends, always a helper in these circumstances).
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May 9, 2017 18:37
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MonsieurChoc posted:I think it's interesting that, in Super Robot Wars V, the thing that separates the timeline where Hathaway became Mufti and the one where he doesn't is that Chan lived in the second one (and he got a support network of Super Robot friends, always a helper in these circumstances). I actually thought that was one of the cleverer things V did. Having two UCs let them do weird out-of-continuity things like have Jerid and Yazan still around while still addressing the original idea.
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May 9, 2017 19:18
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I liked Tobia being unsure whether Hathaway was going to be like the one that became Mufti in his timeline or not. Gives what was otherwise a kind of bland character something extra to do.
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May 9, 2017 19:37
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The more I hear about V, the more I want to waste my money on it and leave it sitting on my list of PS4 games I still have to play. That list and FE Echoes coming out soon are the only reasons I haven't bought it at this point, really. SRW V was one of the main reasons I wanted the console in the first place.
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May 9, 2017 20:26
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tsob posted:The significance would probably be more apparent, or at least more noteworthy if Kudelia had had any real role in season two, or if any of that stuff had occurred on screen during the show's run, instead of happening off screen during a montage in the last couple of minutes of the show. Rustal has the same issue, since he doesn't pursue or contemplate helping the system or changing it during the show, only in the last five minutes during a montage. You can see why he would looking back through the show's run, but it doesn't make it any more satisfying that his character was the one to change the setting so much when he doesn't show any real care for that during the show itself. Nor does it make him more interesting in a "adults can be the ones to change the system, even somewhat villainous ones" way. The problem with Kudelia as a more active participant is that her way of changing the system is generally really boring TV. She works by inches when it's all at her pace, making things a little better day by day and year by year. While there might be obvious markers (like the bill banning human debris), mostly it's people sitting in offices negotiating for a slightly better quality of school lunch. Meanwhile, Tekkadan is starting wars, fighting killbots, and executing dudes in cold blood. We got occasional cuts back to Kudelia, and they were almost always "Well, we have another incremental improvement to Martian standards of living. I know this is slow, and you hate yourself for working with people like Nobliss, but unfortunately slower progress is the stuff that's likely to stick." Her role, unfortunately, was to be sidelined as Tekkadan stepped away from her and towards all its worst instincts, personified by McGIllis. Showing Kudelia making sweeping changes would go against the whole "slow and steady" theme for her, and reduce viewer sympathy for Tekkadan by showing them to not just be wrong, but to be ignoring something giving them everything they wanted. Has to be a downside to the reforms that work if people go in for the alternatives. The same goes for Rustal's reformist actions. We see hints that he's setting Julietta up as his successor from very early, racking up achievements so that, when he retires, people will accept him publicly going "As I do not have children, this no-name orphan can take my seat". He views Gjallarhorn not as an institution shaped by great men (as shown in his Gundam antagonist "This is my philosophy" speech), but as one shaped by all its members throughout history, and therefore any changes he wants would need to be accepted as rational by everyone, not just imposed from above. Moreover, he's shown to value the stability of the system over any virtue for it. He was, after all, willing to sacrifice Julietta (and with her his hopes for reform) to stop McGillis's faction. I don't quite think it's as cynical a show as Walrus is saying, though. Kudelia was shown to make small improvements throughout the second season, and it was implied it would keep up. The massive reforms may have been a product of ill-considered revolution and those in power having no choice but to respond, but if the show wanted to say that it was the only way, I'd think the occasional Kudelia scenes wouldn't make note that her changes were chipping away at Gibraltar. (Of course, in favor of Walrus's argument, it's shown that Nobliss, the most toxic person on the show, would have endured and prospered without Ride and company breaking themselves. As I said, I don't think it's quite as cynical, but I definitely agree there's something to his point.) The tragedy overall, of course, is that incremental reforms don't mean anything for the kids dying in the gutters now, and that their position generally has no good options. And the tragedy of Tekkadan specifically is that they had, by violence, desperation, and cunning, reached the place where they could endure through incremental reforms, but they were too caught up in their old patterns to escape them. (It's been brought up before how the three recruits advocating caution, Biscuit, Takaki, and Zack, were the three people with family outside of the organization, but it's pretty relevant to their positions. ) chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 00:42 on May 10, 2017 |
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May 10, 2017 00:39
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Kanos posted:Bright's son is a direct product of Bright being a lovely, awful, neglectful father. He's exactly like Quess in that he's a child who was completely abandoned and ignored by people who should have been there to help and guide them and thus ended up lashing out at the world in an awful manner because of it. I'm not gonna defend bright as a father figure, but I also don't think that excuses hathaway killing chan
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May 10, 2017 00:50
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Kanos posted:Don't try to go "well, Bright could have been a father to his son but he was busy SAVING THE WORLD FROM IMMINENT EXTINCTION". Hathaway is 13 years old in CCA. There were roughly a billion opportunities in the preceding decade for Bright to set down his military responsibilities to be there for his family(his family, not just his son), or to try to get transferred to a post that didn't require him to be Front Line Deep Space Captain, but he chose not to. Bright's sense of overall responsibility makes him a selfless, heroic figure, but his abandonment of his family for a nebulous "good cause" makes him an individually lovely father and husband, and it's possible for him to be both of these things without there being a contradiction. The fact remains that because Hathaway is Bright's child, Bright bears some responsibility for Hathaway's actions just as Adenaur bears some responsibility for Quess's. It is true that Bright Noa could have given up his life of service at any point after the One Year War. But then he wouldn't be Bright Noa. It sucks for Hathaway, but Bright's life of service is not merely one of distinction. People like Bright are necessary. Bright isn't the only soldier with family they've left behind. Hathaway isn't the only child whose parental figures are away from home. Even if a father is absent from a son's life, at the end of the day, a son or daughter must choose how to live their own life, and they are responsible for their own actions. If we blame Bright Noa for Hathaway being a poo poo, to me that is falling into the same trap of UC Gundam's theme of "ADULTS BAD, YOUTH CAN FIX IT." It's finding someone else to blame for the problems of an individual or a government, while also allowing someone like Hathaway to absolve themselves of personal responsibility. "It's not my fault, I was FORCED to do it! Society made me this way!" Have to wonder how his daughter is turning out, though. quote:Gundam repeatedly establishes that being a newtype, especially a child newtype, makes you loving crazy by normal standards and I think you're being really, really harsh on Hathaway for being a murderer considering what Amuro and Kamille could have become but for the slimmest of chances and a heaping helping of narrative luck. Tough rocks for Hathaway, and Newtypes in general. They're still people and still can make decisions on their own. Unfortunately, the Universal Century is a meatgrinder of sad and awful plus horrifying multiplied by please make it stop. You don't HAVE to be a newtype to be twisted into a monster beyond redemption, and you don't have to be an oldtype to get through a difficult life in the middle of what is essentially a forever war. Yeah, it's not 'fair' that Hathaway wasn't lucky like other Gundam protagonists, but he's not a protagonist. At best, he's everyone else, who reads about how awesome actual 'heroes' are, but when he gets his spin of the wheel all he manages to do is break the damned thing. Not everyone is lucky, no matter how 'skilled' or 'blessed' you might be. Sometimes, no matter how hard people work at something, no matter how much we WANT something, we don't always get it. Not every internet tough guy gets to be a Navy SEAL no matter how many times they read American Sniper, no matter how hard they train. Even people who, by any measurable standard, are 'meant for greatness' (like newtypes in general are painted as being) can not only fail, they can fail in such spectacular ways they harm others around them. quote:*serious reductive bullshit on my part about your "Hey Newtypes be loving crazy yo" please do not feel insulted* You know, I always found Kamille unintentionally hilarious. I'm not exactly the best person to talk about Zeta though, because A) I felt it was kinda garbage all the way through, and B) I spent most of my viewing of the DVDs laughing at subtitles, such as "WILL EMMA BE KAMILLE'S NEW LOVER" really early on. Yeah, newtypes are pretty damned imbalanced as people for being the Hope of humanity in the UC. I think in some ways it must be intentional. "Newtpes are the next step! Everything will be better when there are newtypes!" Except being a newtype doesn't make you a better person automagically. You're still a human being, with some advantages and disadvantages that aren't shared by others. And if nothing else, Gundam takes a lot of time to tell us how fragile and corruptible any human being, regardless of their newtypiness, can be. Newtypes, thematically, are hopeful concept. If we all magically evolve into newtypes, we will all magically "understand" one another, and somehow that will solve strife and people won't have to murder eachother, you know, except for every time newtypes kill each other anyway. Because special powers and psychic connections don't change the circumstances of the world around them no matter how much Gundam tries to rely on this narrative crutch. The best we can get out of Newtypes, in the end, is "But even so." The world is a cruel and vicious place, but even so, we have to try to be better if we WANT things to be better. And that's not something that's exclusive to old or newtypes. However, even newtypes have to be willing to put down the gun, and the Universal Century is stuck on the part where you take up the gun quote:I do agree with your final statement on some level. Hathaway's life and actions are an example of how simply waiting for a future generation to sort everything out will never, ever work, because the future generation can easily be twisted and ruined by the actions of the current generation. It takes cooperation between the current and future generations to achieve anything of lasting value. I would extend this to the newtype concept as well. The Federation and Zeon remnants can wait forever for the Understanding Singularity, when all become newtypes or whatever, but there is absolutely no guarantee that this will solve anything. The newtypes still have to make the choices to not be caught up in wars. They still have to live in a world where these terrible things have happened, and keep happening. There's no amount of understanding in the world that can write off the fact that this all really started for most people in the Earth Sphere when Zeon gassed a bunch of colonies and dropped two on Earth. Short of really, really terrible narrative contrivances, of course.
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May 10, 2017 03:44
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fivegears4reverse posted:I would extend this to the newtype concept as well. The Federation and Zeon remnants can wait forever for the Understanding Singularity, when all become newtypes or whatever, but there is absolutely no guarantee that this will solve anything. The newtypes still have to make the choices to not be caught up in wars. They still have to live in a world where these terrible things have happened, and keep happening. There's no amount of understanding in the world that can write off the fact that this all really started for most people in the Earth Sphere when Zeon gassed a bunch of colonies and dropped two on Earth. Short of really, really terrible narrative contrivances, of course. I think part of the thing is, The Understanding Singularity itself is a bit of a misunderstanding. Like, we have plenty of evidence that even newtypes can propogate war against each other, that just because you can understand someone doesn't mean you'll be able to agree with them or support them. Like, hell, look at Scirocco: dude's one of the most powerful newtypes in the mid first century UC and he's perhaps one of it's worst figures. Or, hell, if you wanna take this to the far end of the timeline, there's the whole thing about the Turn X being a war machine apparently built by a newtype civilization that left the solar system. If an entire group of newtypes can't manage to put aside war and the horrifying legacy of the U.C. turning them into weapons... well, there you go.
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May 10, 2017 07:13
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another example is haman since you see her actually go through the weird newtype understanding thing with kamille and then immediately reject it to continue fighting
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May 10, 2017 07:17
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chiasaur11 posted:The same goes for Rustal's reformist actions. While I agree that Kudelia's incremental achievements wouldn't make for great TV, at least in and of themselves, I cannot agree that it's true of Rustal if that's what you're trying to say. Rustal wasn't going for incrementally increasingly how good things were, and showing him as at least thinking about how change might be necessary given the events of the show even if he would personally prefer a different method of governance would be more satisfying than just having it happen and a few things show in retrospect that it was something he was at least okay with. As for Kudelia, on it's own incremental achievements aren't good TV, but showing them in conjunction with or as part of another, more personal and dramatic arc would be fine.
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May 10, 2017 14:02
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fivegears4reverse posted:It is true that Bright Noa could have given up his life of service at any point after the One Year War. But then he wouldn't be Bright Noa. It sucks for Hathaway, but Bright's life of service is not merely one of distinction. People like Bright are necessary. Bright isn't the only soldier with family they've left behind. Hathaway isn't the only child whose parental figures are away from home. Hathaway is a child; he is thirteen years old in CCA. We don't try children for crimes the same way we try adults for crimes specifically because they are children and cannot be expected to make decisions on the same level as adults. Children are the products of their environments. Children who are raised poorly or not raised at all usually turn out to be pretty messed up on some level, and it's okay to partially blame the parental figures responsible for them for the kids behaving badly as a result of this. "Personal responsibility" when referring to the actions of a child is a pretty weird statement, because even in our modern society where we don't have children born with brain-altering psychic powers we don't expect children to make important life decisions unsupervised. fivegears4reverse posted:I would extend this to the newtype concept as well. The Federation and Zeon remnants can wait forever for the Understanding Singularity, when all become newtypes or whatever, but there is absolutely no guarantee that this will solve anything. The newtypes still have to make the choices to not be caught up in wars. They still have to live in a world where these terrible things have happened, and keep happening. There's no amount of understanding in the world that can write off the fact that this all really started for most people in the Earth Sphere when Zeon gassed a bunch of colonies and dropped two on Earth. Short of really, really terrible narrative contrivances, of course. Most of the newtypes we see on screen in UC don't get caught up in wars because of their own decisions, they are forced into it by circumstances. All of the main UC protagonists pretty much fall into their Gundams and are sucked into their respective conflicts. Char's family was murdered as a child and he was pretty much conditioned into being a hosed up living weapon. All of the Cyber Newtypes are effectively slave soldiers. Even Haman was effectively forced on some level into becoming what she is due to being born into the political snake pit of Axis; if she wasn't in charge, you can be drat sure that whoever ended up in charge would likely have tried to make use of her abilities. I'm pretty sure the only UC newtype who ends up joining in a conflict entirely because of his own choosing is Scirocco.
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May 10, 2017 16:30
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Ugh, god, it's such a minefield trying to read this thread right now. Is IBO S2 fully dubbed already so I can catch up? Though I guess I need to watch the S1 dub too.
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May 10, 2017 16:37
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I always felt that the fact that it was Bright who was the fatherish figure that helped Amuro and Kamille out made it clear that it was his absence that helped mold Hathaway into the person he is. I dunno if I'd say he was a solid dad dude in ZZ because the Scooby gang were who they were, but it's shown that Bright being around troubled children definitely helps (mostly?). Hathaway is what Amuro and Kamille could have been without intervention - a big bundle of emotion and bad decisions with astonishingly easy access to war machines. Obviously Bright wasn't the only positive influence on the other characters and his absence the only negative one, but I think his presence is an important factor nonetheless.
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May 10, 2017 17:25
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Bright in ZZ is so bullied by the children that one of children eventually becomes captain and Bright is just like ok.
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May 10, 2017 18:57
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:Ugh, god, it's such a minefield trying to read this thread right now. Dub's finished recording, but it's not on air yet. Should start in about a month. Sorry for contributing to the minefield.
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May 10, 2017 20:06
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fivegears4reverse posted:
What if the cost of saving Hathaway is that Cheimin is the one who gets sucked into Char's scheme instead of Quess?
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May 11, 2017 02:58
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What has Bright's daughter done outside of existing, anyways?
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May 11, 2017 04:43
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 I am excited for GM's Counterattack
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May 11, 2017 10:36
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Woohoo! The return of Ricardo Fellini and some less interesting gunpla nerds!
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May 11, 2017 12:26
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DigitalRaven posted:Woohoo! The return of Ricardo Fellini and some less interesting gunpla nerds! I'm guessing the Ninpulse is Nils's new toy, then.
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May 11, 2017 12:30
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Darth Walrus posted:I'm guessing the Ninpulse is Nils's new toy, then. That sounds about right to me too. DigitalRaven posted:Woohoo! The return of Ricardo Fellini and some less interesting gunpla nerds! I'm hoping he'll have upgraded the Wing Gundam Fenice Riniscita into an Endless Waltz version of some kind  .
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May 11, 2017 12:36
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For anyone that can read Japanese: afaik i know there are several words you could translate into counterattack, is it "gyakushuu" like CCA or is it just a coincidence.
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May 11, 2017 13:53
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It's the same kanji.
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May 11, 2017 14:10
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DigitalRaven posted:Woohoo! The return of Ricardo Fellini and some less interesting gunpla nerds! If you are including the Meijin in this sentence, you can go to hell.  At least the good cast is back.
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May 11, 2017 16:13
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Monaghan posted:If you are including the Meijin in this sentence, you can go to hell. One of the few things Try did right was taking a character that was okay at best and make him truly amazing. Removing him from the rival role and making him take a mentor position was a great move, so he could go full ham. I hope we keep that Meijin for this OVA.
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May 11, 2017 16:25
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Darth Walrus posted:I'm guessing the Ninpulse is Nils's new toy, then.
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May 11, 2017 20:58
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I'm feeling pretty skeptical about any new build fighters stuff since they're not gonna be able to recapture how fresh the original series felt when it came out. It really happened at a good time. I'd rather see them put the concept to rest for 2-3 years, sit on it for awhile.
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May 11, 2017 23:35
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Srice posted:I'm feeling pretty skeptical about any new build fighters stuff since they're not gonna be able to recapture how fresh the original series felt when it came out. It really happened at a good time. I'd rather see them put the concept to rest for 2-3 years, sit on it for awhile. Gonna continue to be profoundly skeptical of this until such a time as it turns out that the original team is working on this.
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May 11, 2017 23:40
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Artum posted:Gonna continue to be profoundly skeptical of this until such a time as it turns out that the original team is working on this. First title named Gundam Build Fighters GM's Counterattack. A new story that will focus on Sei Iori and other original casts of the Gundam Build Fighters. Original staff from the first GBF franchise will be returning for the project including the director Kenji Nagasaki, Kenichi Ohnuki (character designer), Suzuhito Yasuda (character design cooperation), and mechanical designers Kunio Okawara, Junichi Akutsu, Junya Ishigaki, Kanetake Ebikawa, and Kenji Teraoka!
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May 11, 2017 23:46
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Okay I'm much more hopeful now. Also "Gm's counterattack" is a great name.
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May 11, 2017 23:51
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An invasion of scrub tier players fielding a huge force of GMs in Gunpla battles would be hilarious.
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May 11, 2017 23:54
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Even with the original staff returning I'm not feeling confident since while the majority of the cast was one-note, they didn't overstay their welcome so they remained charming, and I worry that going back to that well could ruin that factor.
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May 11, 2017 23:54
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If the new Build Fighters OVA has Fellini picking up chicks with gunpla I will forgive literally any flaw it has
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May 12, 2017 00:07
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Arcsquad12 posted:An invasion of scrub tier players fielding a huge force of GMs in Gunpla battles would be hilarious. Did you see how many effects parts that GM on display has?
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May 12, 2017 00:09
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