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Waffleman_ posted:I just wanna be a Sanjuro and cut some fool ronin. Wick's hatred of ronin never made sense to me. You'd think making the ronin a tempting option before owning someone would be more amusing to him than making one aggressively terrible on every level to disincentivize it.
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Oct 5, 2017 04:12
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Plutonis posted:Yep, L5R is bad at Japanese history all right. Yeah which is why Plutonis posted:It's steeped in historicity? Although I don't know if Burakumin were specially singled out for 'Tsujigiri'. is a bullshit argument. It's not Japan, its a fantasy world, where they've chosen to highlight some of the worst aspects of the real world- while at the same time the default assumption is that you are a member of the highest caste that benefits from this arrangement and defends the social order/celestial order whereby poor people are target practice.
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Oct 5, 2017 04:15
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Nuns with Guns posted:Wick's hatred of ronin never made sense to me. You'd think making the ronin a tempting option before owning someone would be more amusing to him than making one aggressively terrible on every level to disincentivize it. I think it has to do with the fact that they're a blank slate. Wick seems to prefer, or at least did, keeping PC's tightly controlled and playing a masterless tabula rasa makes that more difficult. Ronin did get a school at one point but I remember it being garbage because it was his, as well as the dev team's, desire to make it a trap.
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Oct 5, 2017 04:27
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I think it has to do with the fact that they're a blank slate. Wick seems to prefer, or at least did, keeping PC's tightly controlled and playing a masterless tabula rasa makes that more difficult. Ronin did get a school at one point but I remember it being garbage because it was his, as well as the dev team's, desire to make it a trap. Yep, Wick loves loving players over, and someone coming to the table with a masterless loner orphan doesn't give him any leverage to do so with.
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Oct 5, 2017 04:29
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hmm don't know much about this wick guy but I'm starting to suspect he might not be a great game-making person
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Oct 5, 2017 04:35
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Nuns with Guns posted:Wick's hatred of ronin never made sense to me. You'd think making the ronin a tempting option before owning someone would be more amusing to him than making one aggressively terrible on every level to disincentivize it. It's just blind murderhobo hatred projected into a genre where that doesn't make sense. Making ronin not garbage, especially in a game that's ostensibly partially based on chanbara movies, doesn't mean everyone would be playing wandering death machines with no social connections. I'm beginning to think that Wick was bullied by his teen DM because his grudge against D&D is comically exaggerated.
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Oct 5, 2017 04:49
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The main issue with class / caste in Legend of the Five Rings, other than crass terminology, is that it's presented as metaphysically, unquestionably right. This is done to the point where the one major organization looking to create a more egalitarian society are presented as a cult of fanatical maniacs who engage in brainwashing and murder and little else. Similarly, commoners wanting to engage in rebellion are more often than not coopted by literal demons. There's some nuance here and there, but in general it's presumed that the majority of the people exist to serve the samurai and their daimyos, and that this is proper and right.
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Oct 5, 2017 04:51
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are there any rpg settings with class struggle (not the wizard kind)
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Oct 5, 2017 05:48
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Impermanent posted:are there any rpg settings with class struggle (not the wizard kind) Have you heard of the *punk genre?
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Oct 5, 2017 05:50
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I think it has to do with the fact that they're a blank slate. Wick seems to prefer, or at least did, keeping PC's tightly controlled and playing a masterless tabula rasa makes that more difficult. Ronin did get a school at one point but I remember it being garbage because it was his, as well as the dev team's, desire to make it a trap. Impermanent posted:are there any rpg settings with class struggle (not the wizard kind)
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Oct 5, 2017 05:55
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Impermanent posted:are there any rpg settings with class struggle (not the wizard kind) Misspent Youth is a game about the oppressed youthful generation telling the oppressors to go gently caress themselves. Red Planet is Fate Core setting about Soviet propaganda and convincing oppressed people to rebel against their oppressors in class struggle is one of the default adventures. Zoro fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 06:00
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Impermanent posted:are there any rpg settings with class struggle (not the wizard kind) Dark Sun
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Oct 5, 2017 06:07
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Impermanent posted:are there any rpg settings with class struggle (not the wizard kind)
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Oct 5, 2017 06:50
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actually yeah Red Markets is 100% about surviving various poverty traps set up by late-stage Capitalism under the backdrop of a zombie apocalypse
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Oct 5, 2017 06:54
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Hostile V posted:Red Markets which is a poverty simulator but with zombies where the goal is to claw your way kicking and screaming out of poverty and into stability and safety without going insane in the process. Spoiler alert: you will fail at this task.
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Oct 5, 2017 06:54
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Alien Rope Burn posted:The main issue with class / caste in Legend of the Five Rings, other than crass terminology, is that it's presented as metaphysically, unquestionably right. This is done to the point where the one major organization looking to create a more egalitarian society are presented as a cult of fanatical maniacs who engage in brainwashing and murder and little else. Similarly, commoners wanting to engage in rebellion are more often than not coopted by literal demons. There's some nuance here and there, but in general it's presumed that the majority of the people exist to serve the samurai and their daimyos, and that this is proper and right.
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Oct 5, 2017 07:17
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While the reinforcement of it as 'right and good' as a metaphysical truth (not just an entrenched societal view) is odd, I get what L5R is trying to do and it's repeated in his other game Houses of the Blooded. It's trying to create and enforce that style of fiction about honorable duels and courtly love and general courtliness and filial obligation and all that sort of thing. Being rootless is the opposite of that kind of story. My first ever exposure to L5R was actually The Dragon novel in the Clan War series. I was just gifted it as a kid by someone who thought it was time to expand my fantasy beyond just European. I suppose if you squint, Ree Soesbee looks like it could be an Asian name too  The Dragon is actually reasonably well-written. I think I remember looking up later and finding out a big chunk of context was missing from not reading The Crab first though to find out the backstory of why those guys are now evil. Although it was pretty cool to read the bit in the novel where the heroine now has a super-jade prosthetic hand and is ready to kick her rival's rear end and then when she sees him SURPRISE he has a magical crabclaw for a hand! bewilderment fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 08:17
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I've only quickly browsed through it so far. Mechanically it seems very different - the only thing that immediately irks me is it having custom symbol dice. Apart from that I think I'll have to give it a try to see how it plays. They seem to have gone for the setting of 1st edition which is probably for the best given all of the dumb stuff that happened as a result of the CCG. Terrible Opinions posted:This is really the problem. If all of this caste system stuff was to facilitate playing through a Japanese version of Kundo or Robin Hood it'd be cool and worthwhile. Unfortunately it isn't. Yeah - I remember when I first read the Merchant's Guide to Rokugan and was thinking - well hell, I can really see where these Kolat guys are coming from - I'd be with them. And then a little later it basically spends several paragraphs explaining that their point of view is LITERALLY UNIVERSE BREAKING. I tend to ignore that bit in my games because I think it's dumb - one of my campaigns had a monk-backed peasant rebellion as a major component.
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Oct 5, 2017 08:29
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I think it has to do with the fact that they're a blank slate. Wick seems to prefer, or at least did, keeping PC's tightly controlled and playing a masterless tabula rasa makes that more difficult. Ronin did get a school at one point but I remember it being garbage because it was his, as well as the dev team's, desire to make it a trap. Sadly it shows up in 7th Sea too, where you are mechanically punished for making a character that might want to get in a fight but isn't in one of the half-dozen recognized duelist schools.
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Oct 5, 2017 08:40
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I will edit this as I continue to have thoughts but as they stand now: Skipped first part as I've read "THIS IS ROKUGAN" a billion times by now, will maybe go back to it later. Rings as approaches is interesting and could work well, but I a) forsee arguments of "no I'm totally doing this in a FLASHY WAY so I get to use Fire!" and b) worry they could end up like Fate Accelerated approaches, where you end up just picking one that you're gonna do, and pump that one up forever, and describe yourself as always doing it that way. They're a lot better at saying "uh no, they are actually VERY different in how they approach skills" but, well, it's still a worry. Clan write ups are great. Especially love the Dragon, a clan I always kinda had issues with understanding, having a way more clear theme, and I especially especially love how each clan has a virtue they kiiiiinda embody, and one or more virtues that they either openly scorn...or, far more likely, that other clans will claim they're doing wrong. I like that MOST great clans aren't gonna be all like "no yeah we're loving terrible at loyalty," but the other great clans might point at them and call bullshit in turn. The level up tables or whatever are a terrible idea with likewise terrible implementation and legit ruins things hard. It's such an immediate and visceral turn off for me. Congrats, you made leveling up lovely.
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Oct 5, 2017 08:56
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Kai Tave posted:You should email the creators if you've got feedback. Abaddon/Operant/the Kill 6 Billion Demons guy has an account here but he doesn't seem to use it all that much, and idk if he even reads this subforum, but he's been very polite and receptive to feedback so far. I back his Patreon so I usually leave it there.
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Oct 5, 2017 10:11
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Zoro posted:Misspent Youth is a game about the oppressed youthful generation telling the oppressors to go gently caress themselves. That looks awesome, how does it go in actual play?
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Oct 5, 2017 10:14
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Lemon-Lime posted:I back his Patreon so I usually leave it there. I really need to get around to doing that one of these days.
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Oct 5, 2017 10:16
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Impermanent posted:are there any rpg settings with class struggle (not the wizard kind) Why not the wizard kind? I would pay good money for Les Wizerables.
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Oct 5, 2017 10:56
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fool_of_sound posted:Have you heard of the *punk genre?
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Oct 5, 2017 11:02
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ProfessorCirno posted:I will edit this as I continue to have thoughts but as they stand now: Yeah that's the number one thing they need to change about the mechanics right now. Nothing else jumps out to me as extremely bad as that. Character creation itself just being the twenty questions is probably my favorite thing along with advantages/disadvantages being completely reworked to meaningful narrative mechanics instead of stupid poo poo you take to squeeze some more XP out. Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 11:55
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ProfessorCirno posted:I will edit this as I continue to have thoughts but as they stand now: The Unicorn School is hilarious. Basic power: your horse helps you. Capstone power: you can summon your horse with a whistle, even if it's dead.
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Oct 5, 2017 13:16
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The leveling system reminds me of Warhammer Fantasy and it's weird. It doesn't personally bother me too much but it's a strange choice.
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Oct 5, 2017 13:21
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And how hard would it be to just ignore the requirements and just use XP spent if you don't like it?
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Oct 5, 2017 13:25
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The leveling system reminds me of Warhammer Fantasy and it's weird. It doesn't personally bother me too much but it's a strange choice. Not surprising considering the FFG Star Wars game are just a thinly-disguised reskin of Dark Heresy, which is itself a thinly-disguised reskin of WFRP.
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Oct 5, 2017 13:26
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The Dragon entry in the mechanic that gives you a rank in a Skill that your clan normally disdains is hilarious to me because it feels like the biggest stretch. "Wait what do the Dragon hate?" "...Boats?"
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Oct 5, 2017 13:51
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MonsieurChoc posted:And how hard would it be to just ignore the requirements and just use XP spent if you don't like it? The breakdown of the system is that you have to spend X amount of XP on stats to go up to the next rank. Much like careers in WFRPG, you have preset stats for each rank.   You could take away the specific stats and just make it so that once you spend X, you go up in rank. I wouldn't really start planning stuff though until the final product is out since they could scrap it, as FFG has done in the past, and start over or just use the older editions.
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Oct 5, 2017 14:12
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Lemon-Lime posted:Not surprising considering the FFG Star Wars game are just a thinly-disguised reskin of Dark Heresy, which is itself a thinly-disguised reskin of WFRP. What? First off Dark Heresy was originally made by Black Industries not FFG, so that's where the system comes from. Second WFRP 3rd edition, the one made by FFG users a different system where they first started the custom dice advantage/disadvantage etc. Which they then used for Star Wars, it's a completely different system then Dark Heresy and previous WFRP which is a percentile system.
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Oct 5, 2017 14:22
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bewilderment posted:Being rootless is the opposite of that kind of story. The thing with L5R is that there are the ronin that are core main characters of the first two story arcs (Toturi, Ginawa, Hiroru) so it very much feels like a "do as I say, not as I do". RocknRollaAyatollah posted:You could take away the specific stats and just make it so that once you spend X, you go up in rank. I wouldn't really start planning stuff though until the final product is out since they could scrap it, as FFG has done in the past, and start over or just use the older editions. Ugh. That's better than L5R 1e-4e's Insight, but given that Insight is one of the worst advancement systems I've seen, that's not saying much.
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Oct 5, 2017 14:26
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The breakdown of the system is that you have to spend X amount of XP on stats to go up to the next rank. Much like careers in WFRPG, you have preset stats for each rank. So it's cultivation XP ala Legends of the Wulin, except you have to spend it on very specific things? Well, that's...a thing you could do, I guess. Actually it kind of reminds of cultivation XP married to the ridiculuous "Tager awakening" thing from Cthulhutech' where to awaken your super-powered fire monster form you'd have to start 300 small fires, 200 medium fires and at least one fire that burned out of control and killed a person you didn't intend to burn.
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Oct 5, 2017 14:28
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Cinnamon Bear posted:Yeah which is why Yeah honestly I'd try to downplay the Hinin stuff and make "sword-testing" something that is reserved just to convicted criminals while doing so to random commoners something really frowned upon. Hell that could even spawn a cool character class or archetype based on "Beheader" Asaemon from Lone Wolf and Cub/Samurai Executioner, the dude whose official job is to test new swords made for bigwigs on criminals.
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Oct 5, 2017 14:57
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Ugh. That's better than L5R 1e-4e's Insight, but given that Insight is one of the worst advancement systems I've seen, that's not saying much.
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Oct 5, 2017 15:45
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Lemon-Lime posted:Not surprising considering the FFG Star Wars game are just a thinly-disguised reskin of Dark Heresy Bwuh??????
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Oct 5, 2017 15:51
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Did anyone ever do a detailed breakdown of the probabilities in Cortex Plus that I could read?
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Oct 5, 2017 15:53
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The actual worst thing about this new edition is the Mantis aren't a Great Clan.
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Oct 5, 2017 16:00
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