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It's also worth noting that in the Firefight book, at least, they have options for Goran Auxilaries (i.e. 'classic' Ork Boyz) and a Marauder Warlord (ie a Warboss). Most of the other stuff could be aligned to regular Orks.
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May 16, 2017 17:49
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Southern Heel posted:I'm as bad as the worst of them when I get excited about something, but don't you think it might be a good call to just get one of the starter sets and play a few games first? You have a fair point, the problem is customs in my current country gives us a limit on 3 tax-free parcels a year, so, you either go big, or go home when it comes to buying your toys. I've actually used all my tax-free parcels for the year, so I'd be picking these up in January (maybe they'll have a sale?) The only thing they don't tax are books and DVDs, so I'll probably get the whole fluff collection shipped separately. Also, glad to hear the RT/2nd ed feel: I remember reading those books when I was 8 and getting the warm and fuzzies. Good times. . . . 
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May 16, 2017 20:26
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Atlas Hugged posted:Interesting layout choice: in the Firefight table of contents, Marauders are listed as their own force. In the Warpath table of contents, they're a subsection under the GCPS. Mantic Shop doesn't list Warpath or Firefight under Wargames either  I'm rolling around the idea of putting together a forge father's force. http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/forge-fathers/product/forge-father-starter-force.html http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/forge-fathers/product/forge-father-faction-starter-2nd-edition.html Well when I logged a ticket about the digital version being a bit poo poo, I logged one with mantic digital and one with the main mantic stop - the former refunded me (and I can keep the PDF) and the latter has literally just offered to send me a full hardback copy of the rules as a gratuity. So gently caress it, bought both the 2nd Ed Faction Starter and Faction Booster, and a Doomsday pattern Iron Ancestor. This is how you keep customers for life
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May 16, 2017 21:09
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Wow OK so going through the Forge Father list, it's really neat. Each tier of troops (warriors, veterans, guard) have upgrades which roughly translate to utility, hitting and shooting and all of them have loads of flavour. I was fully expecting the Dreadnought-facsimile to be totally faceless, but it's actually really cool - something like a Wraithlord general. Check out the quote: quote:Age is venerated amongst all Forge Fathers, bringing, as it does, a wealth of accumulated experience and wisdom. The oldest and wisest warriors bring those riches to bear in suits of Antikk armour, giants like Striders, but infinitely more sophisticated and often much more powerful. Many of these living legends will equip their armour similarly to the preference of their younger days, with a heat hammer on one shoulder and a heavy Hailstorm cannon on the other. The Doomstorm pattern will forego the close combat weapon though and double up on ranged weaponry while the Thor pattern carries two hammers to maul infantry and vehicles alike. Now all I need is a colour scheme. I guess Space Marine type schemes would map nicely... any thoughts?
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May 16, 2017 22:21
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Southern Heel posted:Wow OK so going through the Forge Father list, it's really neat. Each tier of troops (warriors, veterans, guard) have upgrades which roughly translate to utility, hitting and shooting and all of them have loads of flavour. I was fully expecting the Dreadnought-facsimile to be totally faceless, but it's actually really cool - something like a Wraithlord general. That is really awesome, I'm definitely getting interested in the fluff for this setting, and it sounds like they have some good balance ideas. Looking at the models, I'd totally agree that Space Marine schemes/styles of painting would go well with them: they really remind me of Dwarf Space Marines in their design, mini-terminators etc. The studio colour scheme looks a bit like the Minotaur scheme actually. . . . http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Minotaurs I'd suggest something metallic, maybe a pewter/silver or bronze/brass could be nice? Other than that, maybe more earthy tones might fit their fluff?
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May 17, 2017 00:01
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Here's a small portion of my Forge Father collection. I'm quite happy with the results. I'll get around to doing the rest of the bases eventually. I'm still amazed at how quickly I got through my 3 Kickstarter forces (Enforcers, Asterians, and Forge Fathers).      
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May 17, 2017 04:01
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God people stop buying directly from Mantic  They often have weird shipping problems and sorta lovely supply chain, and you should be supporting retailers who already don't feel incentive enough to stock KoW/Warpath stuff due to Mantic's Kickstarter reliance.
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May 17, 2017 06:57
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Hmmm... except I've never had a problem with them, have always been treated well, don't have any local shops which stock them, don't play any games "in the community" (which consists 95% of MTG, X-Wing and Armada if I ever do make it to a shop)? I do understand the meta politics of how Mantic has to balance KS funding with shop presence but that's not my problem. if you were referring to me directly then you'll note I actually travelled to my nearest shop and the only had some older 1st Ed. forge fathers and one KoW regiment - so I did try - but I don't 'owe' any shop my custom.Atlas Hugged posted:Here's a small portion of my Forge Father collection. I'm quite happy with the results. I'll get around to doing the rest of the bases eventually. I'm still amazed at how quickly I got through my 3 Kickstarter forces (Enforcers, Asterians, and Forge Fathers). The technique is really good, if I can get that consistent I will be really happy. I'm not a huge fan of the purple, but it works as a whole
Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 07:11 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 07:03
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Drone posted:God people stop buying directly from Mantic I've found one store down here that stocks Mantic, and they're over in Sydney, but I do try to order from them if I need something
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May 17, 2017 07:12
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I order all my stuff through my FLGS who finally found a distributor willing to stock Mantic so we don't have to go directly through Mantic anymore! Before it meant either Kickstarter, I ordered direct from Mantic, or I had to order enough (or wait for enough) to justify the FLGS ordering direct from Mantic to cover the shipping costs. Now, Mantic is shipped with anything else the distributor sends out here, so I don't have to wait for "enough" Mantic product to be ordered.Southern Heel posted:The technique is really good, if I can get that consistent I will be really happy. I'm not a huge fan of the purple, but it works as a whole I go for consistency and speed above all else. I want my models to look good on the table and I pick a scheme I can get through in a reasonable amount of time per model. But what's wrong with purple? 
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May 17, 2017 07:18
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Speaking ofr Forge Fathers, I remembered I saw this on a wall at the Mantic Open Day and took a pic:
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May 17, 2017 08:06
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That's a napkin concept for a Dwarf Steel Behemoth, in the other universe
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May 17, 2017 08:10
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NTRabbit posted:That's a napkin concept for a Dwarf Steel Behemoth, in the other universe You say Dwarf, I say Dorf, nbd. Either way, it looks neat.
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May 17, 2017 08:16
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So for example, there are Forge Father tanks in the various pictures in the books - but they aren't for sale. Are they out-dated? Or not yet released?
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May 17, 2017 08:19
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As long as you don't say Duardin, it's all good  A 6 legged tank for the behemoth is a cool idea
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May 17, 2017 08:20
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Southern Heel posted:So for example, there are Forge Father tanks in the various pictures in the books - but they aren't for sale. Are they out-dated? Or not yet released? Not yet released, they've just recently arrived at Mantic HQ, and once a few more bits arrive they'll be shipping to KS backers in wave 2, and then after that head to retail. The tank has 3 turrets, and an alternative upper hull that turns it into an APC, all brand new hard plastic sprues; the armoured trike looking light vehicle is going to be boardgame plastic.
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May 17, 2017 08:23
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I'm buying me a Forge Father tank as soon as it hits retail. Those things are cool.
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May 17, 2017 08:26
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It reminds me too much of a funny car (i.e. drag racing) tbh, I think I would probably use Rhinos or the Veer Myn tunnellers. On the other hand those two faction starters plus the Iron Ancestor are 1250pts already so maybe I should slow my roll I've decided on a colour scheme for my Space Dwarfs - 2nd Ed blood angel bright red/yellow/black like so: OH YES DAY GLO MARINES MOTHERFUCKER BTW this could be an awesome centrepiece: https://store.warlordgames.com/collections/konflikt-47/products/soviet-mammoth-walker - it's a shame that it's so expensive 
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May 17, 2017 09:38
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I've glanced over the Firefight and Warpath rules but I haven't been able to spot any army lists. Are those publicly available anywhere? Considering how much I love KoW I'm pretty sure these games are right up my alley, but I'd like to see how well I'd be able to use my current 40k models.
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May 17, 2017 13:19
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Lord Hypnostache posted:I've glanced over the Firefight and Warpath rules but I haven't been able to spot any army lists. Are those publicly available anywhere? Considering how much I love KoW I'm pretty sure these games are right up my alley, but I'd like to see how well I'd be able to use my current 40k models. Have you looked at the quickstart rules on the Mantic website? I'm not sure if there are army lists in there. Otherwise, there's always your friend at ff.easyarmy.com
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May 17, 2017 13:23
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I just looked at the quickstart rules on the Mantic site and for some weird reason they're just that, no lists in either, while the Heracles Dossier just has a small selection of unit entries - basically just the stuff in the 2p starter box - for the FF and Enforcers in both Firefight and Warpath. Like Atlas Hugged said, try http://ff.easyarmy.com/ and you'll get a full list, though takes a few reads to get around the way it's organised there
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May 17, 2017 13:30
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Ff.easyarmy.com has all the unit stats and costs but the main rulebooks (as opposed to the quick start lists) have the army lists. I could share a few pages if you had a specific request?
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May 17, 2017 13:30
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Looks like they've replaced the old Surtr pattern weapons platform with a new resin gun, of the same aesthetic as the new magma cannon design from the Forge Guard onwards. Looks much better than the old one. Wayland has it up on presale, a trio of the standard Jotunns plus one resin Surtr gun
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May 17, 2017 13:52
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The downside with ff.easyarmy.com is that while it has all of the stats and special rules, it lacks fluff and pictures, so you kind of have to infer what something is from the information they give you. It's not ideal for figuring out if the models you have will fit into a particular list, but with some patience you can figure out what things could potentially be. For instance, if you were looking at the Enforcers list, you'd see that Peacekeepers are Large Infantry, have Energy Gauntlets, and their ranged weapons have 2 dice per model. That pretty much makes them Space Marine Terminators with Storm Bolters and Powerfists. Also, it's really not that bad to use. I've taken some screen shots to help out.  This is basically what the page looks like when you load it for the first time.  This tab opens a dropdown menu with the various factions available. We'll stick with Asterians for this example.  All the units available for that faction are in the table on the left. I've clicked on "Marionettes" and it loads all of the various options and upgrades. There are quite a few to pick from and it gives some text saying how many of each upgrade you can take.  Once you've selected all the options and upgrades you want, scroll to the bottom of the upgrades and click on "Add Unit". Clicking it more than once will add additional identical units to your list. If you want different loadouts of the same unit, just change the options before hitting "Add Unit" again.  You can see it lists the units you've added. I didn't add any extra models to the squad or pick any weapon options, so it doesn't list them. Had I added upgrades, they'd be listed under the unit that has them. Notice "0 HVA" as well. Certain units are "High Value Assets", like tanks and walkers. You get a number of them based on how many points you're playing, but if you take more than the allotted amount, you just need to let your opponent know and they get some free victory points. EasyArmy even tells you when this is the case.   When you've picked all the units you want, click on "View" and it will bring you to a completed army list with all of your units and weapons and then a separate section of just the Special Rules your list uses. All in all, it's pretty straightforward. If you have any other questions, just ask. NTRabbit posted:Looks like they've replaced the old Surtr pattern weapons platform with a new resin gun, of the same aesthetic as the new magma cannon design from the Forge Guard onwards. Looks much better than the old one. This is pretty neat. It would look better in purple though.
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May 17, 2017 14:01
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Holy poo poo link those thudd gun fuckers pls - I can't see them at all on the store page. EDIT: whoops, looks like I picked up the Deadzone starters instead of the FireFight starter - I'm pretty chuffed though because the latter looks alot more interesting. Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 15:38 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 15:31
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Southern Heel posted:Holy poo poo link those thudd gun fuckers pls - I can't see them at all on the store page. http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/forgefathers/43291-forge-father-weapons-platform-formation 43 days left til Wayland get them, apparently; Wayland are usually super early on the draw for preorders The Jotunn is an original release, but like the Iron Ancestor it holds up amongst the new stuff (the crewman needs an update though), especially now that the alternate gun has been updated; the third alternate is still OOP, but is metal and looks like this 
NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 15:40 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 15:33
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Those reserve army packs for enforcers and forge fathers are exactly what I was hoping for to round out my armies. What are people thinking in terms of the likelihood of that stuff actually being available when they say they will be? Given the supply problems and the fact that they're beating the mantic webstore to the punch I'm not super optimistic, but I've never ordered from Wayland before. Seldom Posts fucked around with this message at 16:19 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 15:41
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Drone posted:God people stop buying directly from Mantic Name an online store that sells Mantic (and has them in stock) other than the Mantic store itself. The closest local store to me that might sell Mantic is in Argentina, and they would need to order from a North American distributor, or Mantic directly, in order to get product.
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May 17, 2017 16:14
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Thanks! Easy Army gives me a pretty good idea of what I can do with my minis. I've got some Space Marines (Enforcers) Imperial Guard (GCPD), Chaos Zombie horde (Plague) and Necrons, who I was a little concerned what list I'd use, but I think Necrons make pretty good Forge Fathers. Slow, tough and brave dudes seems like a pretty suitable fit.
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May 17, 2017 16:32
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Got my Eru-Kin kickstarter today! Between that and finally assembling my first full unit (Some Saurus Warriors I got on clearance), this is a good day for my Salamander army. I figure I might be able to use some of the sci-fi Lizardmen as part of a Rebs force for deadzone, too.
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May 17, 2017 16:43
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Yvonmukluk posted:Got my Eru-Kin kickstarter today! Between that and finally assembling my first full unit (Some Saurus Warriors I got on clearance), this is a good day for my Salamander army. The scifi lizards would be good Corsairs in a Salamanders army as well.
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May 17, 2017 16:58
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Hurrah! Nice that so many people are getting pumped by Warpath. I'm just a bit sad that I didn't give it the time of day despite enjoying KoW.
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May 17, 2017 18:18
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Ok checking the rules on shadows, it seems that we may have been getting in a twist around them for no reason. P23 - "the shadows are cast directly behind the unit from the perspective you are saying line of sight from"
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May 17, 2017 22:09
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Southern Heel posted:Ok checking the rules on shadows, it seems that we may have been getting in a twist around them for no reason. P23 - "the shadows are cast directly behind the unit from the perspective you are saying line of sight from" Except that's not what it says (assuming we're both looking at Firefight). It says, "The direction shadows are cast in is directly away from the higher of the two models you are drawing line of sight between." And then immediately above it describes shadows between units of the same height with no real explanation as to why shadows are going one direction and not the other. As I said, the issue here isn't whether or not the concept is necessary or makes sense, but one of economy of words and perceived importance. The real important bits are on pages 21 and 22. Page 21: "If you can draw this line without passing over any other units or terrain piece, line of sight is not blocked." Page 21-22: "If you cannot draw line of sight without passing over another unit or piece of terrain you must determine if line of sight can still be established with the following guidelines:" Page 22: "Terrain or units that are higher than one unit but not the other only block line of sight if all bases in the lower unit are completely within the intervening terrain piece or unit's solid shadow." You then have to combine this with the cover rules on page 43 "If your unit leader can see that eligible model in the target unit, but cannot draw an unobstructed line of sight to every part of it, the model is in cover, with the following exceptions: Any obstructions where the target model's base is entirely outside its part shadow are ignored." "If your unit leader can draw an unobstructed line of sight to every part of a model's base it is not in cover." So the basic idea here is that if when I draw my line of sight line, it crosses terrain or another unit, the target might not be blocked or in cover. If my unit leader is up on a hill and there's a rock immediately between my leader and the target, but the target is significantly far back from the rock, then the solid and partial shadows won't affect the target at all and the target is not in cover. The real issue is that these cover rules are split between 3 separate sections of the book: Core Concepts, Shooting, and Terrain. That's where I was getting tripped up. I would look at one section and see part of the rules and assume that I had read all of them and in isolation, each of these rules with the examples given is quite confusing and appears more important than they are. Basically, before any of the shadow rules are explained, they should be gated behind the cover rules from page 43. You only consider shadow when line of sight from your unit leader crosses an obstruction. If you can draw a line from any point on a shooting models base to any point on any target model's base, then the target is eligible and the model can shoot. If you can't, the shooter cannot shoot. Once it's determined which models can shoot, then you determine cover from the perspective of the unit leader, and only then do you need to worry about shadow, and only if there are obstructions between the unit leader and any point on the target model's base.
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May 18, 2017 02:28
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Atlas Hugged posted:The scifi lizards would be good Corsairs in a Salamanders army as well. I...huh, that could actually work. And I would be able to keep the individual minis on round bases, too.
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May 18, 2017 09:41
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After re-reading a few times I think (rules around FF LoS) are actually a relatively common-sense approach that, as you said, could have been much more easily explained. I'm really REALLY not a fan of the aspergers-level abstraction i.e. this poo poo about height 3 vs height 5, etc., so I would probably reiterate the salient points as thus:
* At least as I will house rule it: p43 'A weapon is in range' I don't think overrules 'any models not within range cannot be removed as a result of this action' - I think it is just reiterating what 'range' is, rather than implying if my quad burst laser has got one goblin in range, in their it can kill the whole unit.) As a side, note - holy poo poo Wayland Games are awesome. I ordered my paints from them 48hrs ago and they're being delivered today. I think if I can get my opponent on board, I'll definitely pick up more from them.. maybe the Forge Father Support Force when I can: a tank, drop troops, another iron ancestor and some gimps. Do we have any idea on the prices of the tank/drop troops? Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 09:53
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Southern Heel posted:After re-reading a few times I think (rules around FF LoS) are actually a relatively common-sense approach that, as you said, could have been much more easily explained. I'm really REALLY not a fan of the aspergers-level abstraction i.e. this poo poo about height 3 vs height 5, etc., so I would probably reiterate the salient points as thus: This is my takeaway as well. The rules themselves are totally fine, but they suffer from the same problem most of these guys do in that they didn't hire a technical editor who could really think through the best way to organize and word these interconnected rules. The height stuff doesn't bother me too much. I play Battletech and Kings of War so I'm used to it. But in a friendly game I could see house-ruling it to something more common sense. But for organized play it's better to have those rules than to not have them so disputes can be easily resolved.
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May 18, 2017 09:59
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Southern Heel posted:As a side, note - holy poo poo Wayland Games are awesome. I ordered my paints from them 48hrs ago and they're being delivered today. I think if I can get my opponent on board, I'll definitely pick up more from them.. maybe the Forge Father Support Force when I can: a tank, drop troops, another iron ancestor and some gimps. Do we have any idea on the prices of the tank/drop troops? When they have something in stock it arrives super-fast, if not, well. . . .
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May 18, 2017 16:08
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Xarlaxas posted:When they have something in stock it arrives super-fast, if not, well. . . . As somebody who had the last part of their order arrive today, can confirm. It was originally placed April 7th.
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May 18, 2017 17:48
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glitchkrieg posted:As somebody who had the last part of their order arrive today, can confirm. Consider thyself lucky. I have had orders take as long as four months and family members ordering from them also had stuff take 2 months plus. My family are now reluctant to buy me gifts that are minis related because of it. I now buy elsewhere unless it is clearly in stock and probably on sale. The only reason I left the four month order so long was that it was for a non urgent project and I wanted to see how poo poo they could be. Never order anything from them unless they are already in stock.
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May 19, 2017 10:27
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