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Yeah, I only left the order because they were loads of bits for projects I'm not starting yet, as well as a load of scenic bases for Infinity. I'm gutted Dark Sphere have dropped a load of their lines when they redid their website, it now means Wayland are pretty much the only UK-based "stockist" you can get some things from now.
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May 19, 2017 11:28
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So I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but I know there's not much about the ruleset out on the wider internet so I thought I'd do a little video on the Firefight Rules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7lMOX4hLAg TL;DR - there are a few amazing parts to this system which work together to make it more than a sum of its parts: Universal Special Rules mean that there are very few idiosyncratic rules edge cases and no reason to constantly flip back to a table or rulebook: Anti-Tank means Anti-Tank regardless of whether it's coming from a missile launcher or corrosive seepage. This allows units to be very flavourful without being burdened by lots of tiny errata and stratified rules that mitigate each other (looking at you here, Infinity). Suppression, as discussed is less deadly and more something which can provide an gap for decisive action. Suppression bogs down units (with only a single tier of supression rather than 'per-marker' a-la CoC or BA(?)) and going to ground really throws a spanner in the works. Typically it will absolutely halt an advance (or if the unit was already over extended, cause it to be destroyed), but generally doesn't turn the game itself. It's not enough to push a unit over the limit, the opponent must capitalise on this. This is IMO one of the crowning achievements with... No alpha strikes. It appears that many modern games (AoS, 40k) are laid out something like LCGs, in the sense you prepare an elaborate trap or strategy to spring and having done so, you have won the game. This is absolutely antithetical to the thrust of Firefight - alternate deployments start this process, and alternate activation reinforces it. The Suppression mechanic means it's quite unlikely a whole unit will be destroyed out right (or routed outright) in one go, and if it does you have the ability to react before your entire line is turned. The most powerful command mechanics in the game will still only allow limited activation of more than one unit. EDIT: I noticed with a grin that 40k 8th Edition is using the Firefight/Warpath method of having toughness/wounds for vehicles 
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May 19, 2017 15:19
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glitchkrieg posted:Yeah, I only left the order because they were loads of bits for projects I'm not starting yet, as well as a load of scenic bases for Infinity. I'm gutted Dark Sphere have dropped a load of their lines when they redid their website, it now means Wayland are pretty much the only UK-based "stockist" you can get some things from now. Check out The Outpost and Firestorm Games if you haven't already. Just had a quick look and they both carry at least some Warpath/Firefight. And I have had good service from both each time I have used them. I'll stop derailing the thread now.
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May 19, 2017 17:30
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I'm going through the objectives area of the book in more detail and keep getting struck by just how much thought has gone into it. An Asterian objective could be to gain VP for each unit left alive at the end of the game, or to voluntarily use a command to teleport your own troops out of the battle safely before they're destroyed. Speaking of objectives and missions, there's a lovely quote from the scenario section of the FF Rulebook about 'Last Stand' missions:quote:"Sitting in place and waiting to die while somewhere else someone more important than you achieves something that doesn’t involve helping you" I have my super-saturated red paints here ready to go on my Forge Fathers, it's apparently shipped (with my free FF hardback rulebook after the electronic version cock-up) and now I'm just sitting on my hands. Infact, I've already failed in that by buying an RT-era Marine Dreadnought and a final Terminator-armored space marine to bring the sum total my Enforcer force to bring it up to around 1600pts, which I guess about an average game size for FF. I'm super excited for these models to actually be used, probably at least ten years since I (re)painted them and in some cases more than 20 after I bought them
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May 20, 2017 19:22
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I've been assembling my GCPS. The regular troopers/rangers, I'm very pleased with (albeit the variation is somewhat limited), but god dammit, the weapons team are kind of a pain. Doesn't help that the mould lines on my Major Chard are...prominent. They're getting rid of metals in future, right? Not even tried the Striders yet. Still, once they're assembled, I'm looking forward to using them.
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May 20, 2017 20:45
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The Striders, and all the large restic models really, are surprisingly nice to clean, assemble, and paint. I had way more issues with the Enforcer Missile Launchers and Kalyshi.
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May 21, 2017 02:32
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Diverting slightly from the future war hugfest - I've only played a few games of Dungeon Saga (I got the base game as well as the Adventurers Companion) and wasn't blown away, is it worth getting the whole thing out for solo-play using the solo rules?
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May 21, 2017 08:37
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Atlas Hugged posted:The Striders, and all the large restic models really, are surprisingly nice to clean, assemble, and paint. I had way more issues with the Enforcer Missile Launchers and Kalyshi. Are there instructions for how to assemble them? There weren't any in the box, and there are so, so, many different parts.
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May 21, 2017 11:56
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Yvonmukluk posted:Are there instructions for how to assemble them? There weren't any in the box, and there are so, so, many different parts. The Strider is actually pretty easy, most of the parts are cosmetic options, and the fundamental ones are keyed so they only fit one way. http://blog.childrenofthekraken.com/2014/07/mantics-deadzone-strider.html
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May 21, 2017 12:11
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Well, I've assembled my GCPS battleforce (with the exception of the Striders). Turns out they actually included enough sprues for 45 total soldiers (including the weapons teams), so I was able to assemble a set of extra special weapons soldiers and two rangers with a grenade launcher & flamethrower for Deadzone. I have a question requiring equipment upgrades for Firefight: If a model already has a weapon, does taking an additional weapon replace or supplement their existing weaponry? So if I buy an Enforcer Peacekeeper Captain a sniper rifle, does he get to keep his existing weaponry as well?
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May 22, 2017 09:34
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"Any additional rules or weapons conferred by an upgrade are over and above any possessed by the basic model" p. 77, so your Enforcer Peacekeeper Captain with its 2 allowable upgrades can add 2 of any combination of a ranged weapon, a melee weapon, a riot shield, and smoke grenades - the weapons being "over" because they replace something existing, and the shield and grenades being "above" because they add something new, making them additive.
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May 22, 2017 13:30
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I don't know, that's not really how I use "over and above". They should have just said, "Unless otherwise stated, a model can only have one ranged weapon and one melee weapon and a number of items equal to their Upgrades stat," and given grenades, shields, jetpacks, etc the keyword "item". And the "unless otherwise stated" bit is because there are units with sniper rifles and pistols. There are probably other ways to word it as well, like give every weapon a key word, rifle, pistol, heavy, etc and then say 1 pistol, 1 melee, and 1 of rifle, heavy, etc.
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May 22, 2017 13:39
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Well, I guess I don't know then
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May 22, 2017 13:58
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The problem with "over and above" is that it's idiomatic and shouldn't be used in rules, which should focus more on technical and precise writing. It's generally used to mean "in addition" or "more than", so just by going "rules as written" upgrades don't replace weapons, they're in addition to standard equipment. But that of course doesn't make sense since then a Stormrage Veteran would have both an Autocannon and a Missile Launcher if you paid for the upgrade.
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May 22, 2017 14:31
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^ Yes, "over and above" == "more than/in addition to, the usual" Mantic have uploaded some experimental, freeform KoW rules for their summer campaign: https://manticblog.com/2017/05/18/edge-abyss-kings-war-summer-campaign-new-rules/ I'm interested in the flavour they're adding to their games between the stuff around objectives in FF and the above: it doesn't seem to be enough to really affect the core playability and we aren't at Dark Millenium-level sperg. Does anyone in the UK know which postal service Mantic use? I'm only in the office today and tomorrow and have 1500pts of Forge Fathers on its way to me, dispatched on Friday.
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May 22, 2017 15:23
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I haven't read the book, but doesn't upgrade usually mean replacing one thing for another? If your hotel reservation is upgraded, they don't give you the key card for two rooms.
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May 22, 2017 15:23
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Southern Heel posted:Does anyone in the UK know which postal service Mantic use? I'm only in the office today and tomorrow and have 1500pts of Forge Fathers on its way to me, dispatched on Friday. If it's under the weight limit they use Royal Mail, if it's over they use a courier, but I don't know which one
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May 22, 2017 15:24
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Ugleb posted:I haven't read the book, but doesn't upgrade usually mean replacing one thing for another? Correct. So I looked a bit closer and we have Upgrades listed under a unit with the descriptor "Replace" for weapon upgrades within the unit. So it should be pretty clear that there is no upward limit on what a model can carry besides his Upgrade stat. So theoretically you could buy every gun on the upgrade list for a commander if he were allowed that many. So if you bought a Forge Lord with Upgrade 2, you could buy him an Autocannon and Thermal Mines and that would be in addition to his Pistol and Hammer. I guess you would just choose which to use in any given circumstance. Two things annoy me about it. First is that you have the rules for Upgrades given under the heading "Unit Upgrades" with the implication that they're not specifically talking about commanders buying extra items, but rather every upgrade available. Then they have that line about upgrades being "over and above". Immediately after that, they should add, "...except for where it says 'replaces weapons or equipment.'" The point being that, yes, all of the rules are in the book, but they're not all right where they should be. The exception to the rule, which is the most common use of upgrades in the game, is repeated again and again. If you're repeating text that often, it should be standardized somewhere. Which leads us to the second thing that annoys me. They have a perfectly good item and upgrade system from Deadzone. A model gets one ranged weapon, one melee weapon, and up to one item. I don't know why they didn't just expand on that with the upgrade stat and saying certain units can carry two of one type of weapon (Pathfinders have two ranged weapons for instance), but that's the exception and will be noted.
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May 22, 2017 16:43
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The main reason I was asking was because I want to use this mini as an Enforcer Peacekeeper Captain to supplement my GCPS (with my Accuser as a taxi), and I figured the sniper rifle could represent the sword-mounted railgun (railgun-mounted sword?) while keeping the twin burst rifle as her other gun.
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May 22, 2017 19:58
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Yvonmukluk posted:The main reason I was asking was because I want to use this mini as an Enforcer Peacekeeper Captain to supplement my GCPS (with my Accuser as a taxi), and I figured the sniper rifle could represent the sword-mounted railgun (railgun-mounted sword?) while keeping the twin burst rifle as her other gun. Looks excellent, Mantic is least spergy about counts-as miniatures so I wouldn't even consider it a question. It also looks bad rear end. The whole shop is good but it's very much along the lines of GW/FW pricing than Mantic/Historicals. These look like they would make great throwing mastiffs for my Dorfs: http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Regiments/regiments-full-squads/Stim-Hounds I watched the (only) Firefight batrep on Youtube and it shows an Enforcer flyer just absolutely massacring (massacre-ing? that doesn't look right) Marauders, and a quick con game wrap-up where the same thing happened. How does it fare in-game? Do we need drop-in AA guns? Also what the gently caress I just realised I have Dwarfs as my main KoW army and now Forge Fathers as my main FF army?! It's a shame the FF tanks look like something you'd find on Robot Wars:  I'm thinking of converting some UPCs - whacking a lid ontop and then hopefully get some turrets:  EDIT: Did I remember right that the tanks and sets of three support guns are going to be £25 each? Might be worth going for this:  http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/ironside-mbt-complete-kit-p-37.html Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 22:22 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 21:57
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  Finally getting around to basing my Deadzone/Firefight stuff. I'm quite pleased with the results. Only hundreds of more models to go.
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May 23, 2017 07:34
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Man those look great. It's a bit of a shame they used such a drab official scheme because those are vibrant as fuxk
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May 23, 2017 14:46
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I also changed oranges between batches, but hey it just means it's easy to tell squads apart.
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May 23, 2017 14:58
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I got my Mantic delivery, just in time for a few days off work - so far I'm about halfway through assembly and I'm really really happy with them. I have just seen some black and yellow industrial dudes though, and suddenly having a moment of doubt from my super-saturated red ideas: Black with yellow trim could be very cool.
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May 23, 2017 23:25
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So reading through the Warpath Heracles rulebook (holy poo poo could they not have given them slightly different names?) and it really seems that there's almost zero difference in the games except that Res in FF is equivalent to a model, and Res in WP is equivalent to a base. Is that correct?
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May 25, 2017 10:21
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Force construction is different.
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May 25, 2017 10:41
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x-post from Miniatures thread:Southern Heel posted:I really wanted the red to work but it looked like a McDonalds themed army. I hit it with a red wash and now it's just a bit poo poo and in the middle. I tried a different scheme aligned with pre-heresy Imperial Fists and I think it's a bit nicer, thoughts?
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May 25, 2017 17:05
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Southern Heel posted:x-post from Miniatures thread: Both look nice! I agree that the Yellow/Black theme is a bit better. Although now I'm thinking of an Enforcer army painted like a fast food chain with sponsorship stuff all over them. . . . 
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May 25, 2017 21:48
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is the ruleset (book) in the KOW2 boxed set the same as the softcover rulebook you can buy separately? I was going to buy the boxed set and a softcover rulebook, but I have the strong suspicion that they are the same thing and therefore redundant.
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May 26, 2017 00:40
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xutech posted:is the ruleset (book) in the KOW2 boxed set the same as the softcover rulebook you can buy separately? They're the same, yeah.
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May 26, 2017 02:43
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So, Forgefathers can upgrade a model in their units to a Huscarl, who typically has 'Command (2)' and 'Shield (3)'. Does this grant Shield(3) to the whole unit? Or just him? I would assume the former, since he is part of the unit and can't accrue his own suppression markers to bypass the shiled?
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May 26, 2017 11:38
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Shield is one of those "Any time you perform a Shoot action at a unit containing one or more models with this special rule," rules, so the whole unit. Question about mortars - is anyone else having a hard time against them in Firefight? I feel like I must be missing something. Using the Goblin Guntrack as an example - 85 points gets a unit that: - Can hide and hit anything within 12-48" on a flat 5+ due to the Indirect and Blast rules. - Causes 3 suppression tokens on a hit with Suppressive Fire (2), still causing 2 tokens if the target is Unflinching. Most units will be suppressed out the gate. - THEN Causes 3-8 hits due to Blast. You can take a lot of these in a game, hide, and essentially ignore most of the benefits of cover/defensible terrain due to the Indirect/Blast/Suppressive Fire combo. How do you fight this? I've faced them a few times now as Enforcers, and feel like the game is over before it starts. I can't hide from them or defend against them, so how do I counter them without bomber spam?
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May 26, 2017 12:41
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Southern Heel posted:x-post from Miniatures thread: I really like the black and yellow.
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May 26, 2017 17:46
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Southern Heel posted:x-post from Miniatures thread: I also like the black and yellow.
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May 26, 2017 17:52
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I got a lee and clementine walking dead booster and they look pretty strong, definitely gonna run a lee/clem crew
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May 26, 2017 20:59
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Ok so with the black and yellow scheme I'm identifying sergeants with white helmets, but what about veterans, forge guard and brokkrs?
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May 26, 2017 23:51
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Southern Heel posted:Ok so with the black and yellow scheme I'm identifying sergeants with white helmets, but what about veterans, forge guard and brokkrs? I'm wondering if a light brown marking on the helmets might work? Otherwise a red.
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May 28, 2017 11:58
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Phoon posted:I got a lee and clementine walking dead booster and they look pretty strong, definitely gonna run a lee/clem crew They're awesome! I picked up wave two and it's really cool. They have a great game going on here. Now I just gotta paint all of it.
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May 28, 2017 14:49
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Does the new Warpath go by some nomenclature like Warpath v3 or 2017 or something? When I try and look into the game I see a lot of outdated info or stuff about Firefight.
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May 28, 2017 19:52
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I think it's 2.0 ? At least that's what the beast's of war channel suggests. Tbh I'm still not super clear on why you would want to play a divisional level game with 28mm!!
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May 28, 2017 20:42
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