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mila kunis posted:If someone has a good history of the israeli left / what happened to them I'd love to read it Consumed by right wing populiam. And once the soviets were influencing Egypt they became an out of favor proposition for the Israeli people who were being ramped up due to the yom kippur etc.
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Dec 4, 2020 07:02
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I grew up going to a socialist Zionist summer camp (Habonim if the name means anything to anyone) and there whole shtick was to get us to move to Israel and go live on a Kibbutz and I don't know...pluck chickens or something (to be fair most of their teachings were lost on me as I was just a horny teenager). They did try teach us some left leaning stuff I guess and I remember them, as well as my friends Israel born parents being devastated when Rabin died. I often heard that that was the last time for peace. I doubt Rabin would be seen as left wing, especially by today's standards but if you want to see the death rattle of Israelis left side it was probably a mix of Rabin dying and Ehud Barrack's proposal getting shot down in the late 90s. After that it's been the Bibi show pretty much non stop, as Israel lost its patience with its leaders promising peace and deciding that it could live without it. That's at least my memories of the time.
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Dec 4, 2020 07:21
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human garbage bag posted:They were getting assassinated pretty readily less than two decades ago. Then Israel surrounded itself with walls and checkpoints so now it's very hard for nefarious actors to get in. Hence the rockets and the strikes at Israelis abroad like the bombing of a bus of Israeli tourists in Bulgaria in 2012 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Burgas_bus_bombing)
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Dec 4, 2020 07:40
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Madkal posted:I grew up going to a socialist Zionist summer camp (Habonim if the name means anything to anyone) and there whole shtick was to get us to move to Israel and go live on a Kibbutz and I don't know...pluck chickens or something (to be fair most of their teachings were lost on me as I was just a horny teenager). They did try teach us some left leaning stuff I guess and I remember them, as well as my friends Israel born parents being devastated when Rabin died. I often heard that that was the last time for peace. I doubt Rabin would be seen as left wing, especially by today's standards but if you want to see the death rattle of Israelis left side it was probably a mix of Rabin dying and Ehud Barrack's proposal getting shot down in the late 90s. After that it's been the Bibi show pretty much non stop, as Israel lost its patience with its leaders promising peace and deciding that it could live without it. That's at least my memories of the time. Speaking of European fascist dictatorships being green with envy, it is pretty amazing how long Bibi has clung to power in a shifting multi-party electoral system. I was loving six years old when he became prime minister, nineteen when he became that again...and since he has been prime minister. Insane. He is the only Israeli born prime minister.
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Dec 4, 2020 12:26
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DarkCrawler posted:He is the only Israeli born prime minister.
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Dec 4, 2020 12:51
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Xander77 posted:Olmert and Barak were both born in Israel. Technically both born in Mandate Palestine. Where as Netanyahu was born after Israeli independence. Which I think is the point DarkCrawler was going for.
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Dec 4, 2020 13:41
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forkboy84 posted:Technically both born in Mandate Palestine. Where as Netanyahu was born after Israeli independence. Which I think is the point DarkCrawler was going for. This.
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Dec 4, 2020 13:47
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Imagine entering a friend's house only to catch him beating his spouse, and the first thing he says is "don't look at me like that, this is not who I am!" That is the Netanyahu domination of Israel governments in the last decades in a nutshell. There's no longer any point in pretending that Bibi isn't who we are, it's time to forget all the distinguished leaders of the past. I don't really have a point there, let's work to dissolve this monstrous state. 
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Dec 4, 2020 13:55
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So I just finished watching these videos. How accurate are they? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOqu5qwJpvA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGxaepYw-cw
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Dec 5, 2020 00:10
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is it a very hot take for me to say that if israel had allied with the soviet bloc instead of the usa during the cold war, americans generally wouldnt give a poo poo about the holocaust, and antisemitism would be just as acceptable in american society as islamaphobia and other bigotries
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Dec 5, 2020 01:41
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Kanine posted:is it a very hot take for me to say that if israel had allied with the soviet bloc instead of the usa during the cold war, americans generally wouldnt give a poo poo about the holocaust, and antisemitism would be just as acceptable in american society as islamaphobia and other bigotries Its really not in 2020. I mean only smoothbrain saving private ryan is the weekly movie boomers don't know that the US was declining entry of jewish refugees just the same as other allied countries. They believed some were nazi loving spies which is flat bullshit and definitely they could have temporarily interned them to prevent spying. Its flatly anti-semitism
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Dec 5, 2020 02:11
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There were collectivist/socialist/communist communities in Israel (ie the Kibbutz and Moshavs) but as far as I know as political force they were the minority compared to the more religious contingent.
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Dec 5, 2020 04:35
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Madkal posted:There were collectivist/socialist/communist communities in Israel (ie the Kibbutz and Moshavs) but as far as I know as political force they were the minority compared to the more religious contingent. I can't remember where I saw it, but I swear having read somewhere that an insanely high number of political leaders have been former kibbutzniks. Then again it's also about as relevant to their politics as American neocons having been Trotskyites in university.
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Dec 5, 2020 04:48
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eSports Chaebol posted:I can't remember where I saw it, but I swear having read somewhere that an insanely high number of political leaders have been former kibbutzniks. Then again it's also about as relevant to their politics as American neocons having been Trotskyites in university.
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Dec 5, 2020 05:56
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USSR leaders have always (even before 1917) regarded Labor \ Democratic Socialist parties as a worse enemy than outright conservatives (up to and including proper monarchists). As 90% of Mapai fit comfortably into that category, an alliance was never really in the works.
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Dec 5, 2020 11:01
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"Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R.)" Israel's decision to target the lead scientist was intended to intimidate and strike fear into the hearts of the other civilian scientists. This is what terrorism is. It is stunning we have a terrorist-state in 2020 that is so widely supported in the U.S. and ignored by the EU. If Iran killed a chief scientist from the West, the world would be passing sanctions.
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Dec 5, 2020 19:59
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State terrorism was SOP for a long time here, arguably from the very beginning.
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Dec 5, 2020 20:09
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No you see the idea is to assassinate him so hard that his brains go faster than light and fly backward in time and undo the work even Israel admits he finished doing 17 years ago
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Dec 5, 2020 20:24
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I suppose one of the basic tenets of fascist style authoritarian control is to pull completely unnecessary acts of aggression just to keep everyone afraid.
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Dec 5, 2020 20:29
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Israel engaging in terrorism against Iranians with impunity will all but embolden Iran's desire to be a nuclear-armed state.
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Dec 5, 2020 20:30
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which in turn serves to justify Israeli militarism, it's the circle of hate.
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Dec 5, 2020 20:34
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Starpluck posted:"Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R.)" The US has literally droned tens of thousands of people, many innocent, so not sure why this is "stunning"
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Dec 6, 2020 04:45
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OctaMurk posted:The US has literally droned tens of thousands of people, many innocent, so not sure why this is "stunning" It is not as brazen as this. The drones allegedly target terrorists with civilians casualties. In the aforementioned case, Israel is directly going after civilians.
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Dec 6, 2020 18:32
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Starpluck posted:It is not as brazen as this. The drones allegedly target terrorists with civilians casualties. In the aforementioned case, Israel is directly going after civilians. It is as brazen, look up some of the US definitions for "enemy combatant"
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Dec 6, 2020 18:51
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Miftan posted:It is as brazen, look up some of the US definitions for "enemy combatant" you're making his point for him. the US has a veneer of not explicitly aiming live rounds on the femoral artery during protests
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Dec 6, 2020 18:56
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Starpluck posted:"Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R.)" Scientists working on military programs are not civilians. It would not have been terrorism for the Allies to assassinate scientists working on the V2 project in WW2.
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Dec 6, 2020 21:32
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If somebody bombs a Northrup Grumman office, is that not terrorism?
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Dec 6, 2020 21:42
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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human garbage bag posted:Scientists working on military programs are not civilians. It would not have been terrorism for the Allies to assassinate scientists working on the V2 project in WW2. A better analogy would be if the Soviets assassinated Werner von Braun after the war as revenge for the V2 project (and to undermine Operation Paperclip).
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Dec 7, 2020 00:13
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PittTheElder posted:If somebody bombs a Northrup Grumman office, is that not terrorism? Doesn't the definition literally hinge on weather the somebody is a state actor or not?
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Dec 7, 2020 01:38
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Terrorism is when bad people do a thing. terrorism as used colloquially is a term that says 'use of violence to promote a political agenda by someone whom the speaker thinks doesn't have the legitimacy to use violence'. The word doesn't convey any real objective meaning.
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Dec 7, 2020 04:47
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I just wanna give big congrats to Israel for being the first earth government to join the galactic federation. https://www.jpost.com/omg/former-israeli-space-security-chief-says-aliens-exist-humanity-not-ready-651405 quote:Has the State of Israel made contact with aliens?
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Dec 7, 2020 23:32
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I like the idea that aliens contacted the US, and also Israel, a tiny country the size of New Jersey, but not China or Russia.
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Dec 8, 2020 00:39
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FlamingLiberal posted:I like the idea that aliens contacted the US, and also Israel, a tiny country the size of New Jersey, but not China or Russia. Well you see they are advanced and intelligent enough to know the size of your country is not representative of anything.
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Dec 8, 2020 00:41
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sexpig by night posted:I just wanna give big congrats to Israel for being the first earth government to join the galactic federation. Look I can buy the idea of a Galactic Federation of aliens, but I do not buy the idea of Donald J. Trump knowing about the Galactic Federation of aliens and not telling us about it. Not credible, imo
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Dec 8, 2020 01:25
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https://twitter.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1335948000707928066?s=20 What in tarnation. Eshed! You forgot to take your senility pills.
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Dec 8, 2020 04:31
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we have a space security program? Are Palestinians moving to establish space colonies for us to be paranoid about?
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Dec 8, 2020 04:35
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By popular demand posted:we have a space security program? Are Palestinians moving to establish space colonies for us to be paranoid about? don't you know they're pod people that crash-landed in 1948 with no previous history on earth
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Dec 8, 2020 04:37
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Grouchio posted:https://twitter.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1335948000707928066?s=20 I thought we knew about this for years https://youtu.be/ZAZhtT-dUyo
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Dec 8, 2020 04:39
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By popular demand posted:we have a space security program? Are Palestinians moving to establish space colonies for us to be paranoid about?
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Dec 8, 2020 05:02
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Dec 8, 2020 05:06
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