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Cat Mattress posted:I wouldn't be surprised at all if the situation was simply that the export model must uphold the reputation of German engineering for reliable quality, whereas the domestic version must be super cheap because of budget cuts in the name of Holy Austerity. Too bad then for you, but it was always like this. Military procurement in Germany is the one part of government where we can honestly say it's utterly corrupt, like Eastern Europe style corrupt. And it has been that way since at least the 80s. Every problem with German military equipment can be traced back to this.  Young Freud posted:TBF, everything I've heard about the melting trunion problem had to do with Bundeswehr-earmarked G36s. There have been supposedly no issues with anything made for the export market (although I'm wondering if it could be Germany putting them through more combat conditions than the other NATO countries that use them). It's like some weird inversion of the "monkey model" concept, where the export model tends to be inferior to the models made for national defense. The hilarious thing is, this would mean the Peshmerga are getting the shittier version, since we deliver them our military surplus directly from the Bundeswehr. 
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Aug 18, 2016 17:47
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I hope nobody from Amnesty International sees that we're discussing German manufacturing in here right now. It'd probably drive them to suicide.
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Aug 18, 2016 17:49
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Volkerball posted:I hope nobody from Amnesty International sees that we're discussing German manufacturing in here right now. It'd probably drive them to suicide. At one point the German industry got caught supplying the Middle East with Cyclon B, so it's kind of topical. Sadly.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:03
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Libluini posted:Too bad then for you, but it was always like this. Military procurement in Germany is the one part of government where we can honestly say it's utterly corrupt, like Eastern Europe style corrupt. And it has been that way since at least the 80s. Every problem with German military equipment can be traced back to this. Nah, if it were Eastern Europe style corrupt the guns won't be found overeating during training... since they would have been sold on the black market well before that, and also because the training would involve doing housework for the mysteriously rich supply officer's mansions anyway.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:15
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OddObserver posted:Nah, if it were Eastern Europe style corrupt the guns won't be found overeating during training... since they would have been sold on the black market well before that, and also because the training would involve doing housework for the mysteriously rich supply officer's mansions anyway. I was talking about the civilian side of affairs. So in this case it's about people getting large kickbacks from the military-industrial complex to gently caress over the military, not the military loving themselves.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:34
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Volkerball posted:drat. i'm sure you all know aylan kurdi, but the reference in the other picture for those of you who haven't been on twitter lately is to this boy from Aleppo, named Omran. Why him, out of all the countless others...so many others... In other News, more evidence left/right are completely meaningless concepts. quote:DO NOT GIVE 2016 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE TO SYRIAN WHITE HELMETS A hundred years ago we socialists where on the reciving end of the navies and armies of autocrats, 100 years later we are making excuses for them and the Jacobin equivelant of the communists. gently caress our race.
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Aug 18, 2016 21:18
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Heavy fighting continues in Hakasah between the SAA and the Kurds. This seems like an ill-advised distraction from Aleppo for the Syrian air force.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:02
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It's deeply unsettling to me that so many self proclaimed leftists support Assaad based on the sole reasoning that since the US is against him it must mean he's a plucky anti-imperialist freedom fighter. I would imagine that these were the same types of people who had no problem with Hitler until they woke up on June 22, 1941.
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Aug 19, 2016 02:16
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Cocoa Ninja posted:Heavy fighting continues in Hakasah between the SAA and the Kurds. This seems like an ill-advised distraction from Aleppo for the Syrian air force. https://twitter.com/kovandire/status/766399518363488261 quote:Update #Hasakah https://twitter.com/Dalatrm/status/766394422850424832 quote:#YPG #SDF reportedly now attacking #NDF-held #Ghweyran #Arab district in #Hasakah #Hesekeh. Progress being made https://twitter.com/M1Massoud/status/766388952202813440 quote:Heavy clashes going on in #Hasakah in this moments between #YPG, Asayesh & Syria Regim. https://twitter.com/kovandire/status/766395436374654978 quote:#Hasakah https://twitter.com/sayed_ridha/status/766335535526780928 quote:Due to airstrikes, mutual shelling & clashes in Hasakah, 13 civilians have died & 30 have been wounded, large no. of locals have left Nashwa Additional reports that fighting has spread to Qamishli: quote:Now https://twitter.com/abdullahawez/status/766397774581628929?s=09 quote:Local media in Qamishlo report that pro-PYD security and YPG are besieging Assad-controlled areas in Qamishlo. #Rojava #Syria fade5 fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 02:49
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54.4 crowns posted:Why him, out of all the countless others...so many others... probably because he got filmed and it was powerful enough to make even a cnn anchore show emotion. you have to put a face to suffering for people to feel it. sure the news could show video of kids with their faces blown off from shells painfully dying in the parents arms.(which i saw on this thread once) but that would probaly be to much for them.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:39
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There'll trip over themselves to show a video of someone being beheaded by ISIS though.
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Aug 19, 2016 04:50
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I would imagine that these were the same types of people who had no problem with Hitler until they woke up on June 22, 1941. LOL oh boy did they ever. The Stalinists and other major Communist factions were tripping all over their dicks to talk up Hitler and his fight against the other European imperial powers after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed and continued to be Nazi apologists up until Hitler's invasion of the USSR.
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Aug 19, 2016 06:08
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https://twitter.com/SDF_Press_1/status/766504350126575616
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Aug 19, 2016 08:15
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Sad thinking that's probably why the US sat out the last highway of death.
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Aug 19, 2016 16:17
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Buzzfeed has an article up about US special forces fighting alongside the Peshmerga. It's main focus is on the raid against an ISIS prison last October where an Army Ranger died. https://www.buzzfeed.com/mikegiglio/inside-the-real-us-ground-war-on-isis?utm_term=.vf4dbYWrK#.di5PJOqRb It's also got a neat look at how airstrikes are coordinated in Iraq. quote:In an operations room far from the front, clicking keyboards provide the quiet soundtrack for another key front of the US war. It is here, in a cordoned-off building at Erbil’s international airport, that US and Kurdish specialists coordinate US airstrikes across northern Iraq. One day last month, US soldiers in crew cuts and camouflage sat at keyboards facing a wall of high-definition TVs. Seven showed live streams from surveillance drones. An eighth had a muted broadcast of a Dodgers-Brewers game. The airport also hosts a US military base that is growing as the country expands its involvement in the war. It houses roughly 2,500 personnel from the US and its coalition of allies, according to a spokesperson for the coalition based there. Special forces are mixed with conventional troops and US military contractors, sleeping in rows of tents. On a recent afternoon, some soldiers worked out in a covered gym while one, shirtless and sweating, jogged outside in the 110-degree heat. Military helicopters lined a tarmac nearby, and residents in the city beyond see the choppers buzzing back and forth daily.
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Aug 19, 2016 16:39
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The SAA keeps using the wall of the artillery school in South Aleppo as a rest stop for infantry, so the Fastaqem Union set up an atgm on a building on the wall's flank, so far they have scored 4 devastating hits and the SAA hasn't seemed to notice that the soldiers are in a direct kill zone. SAA incompetence illustrated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGm9TZ13jRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7aaiEFG2E8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEqj_keW0vQ (from today) all  This would be hysterical if it wasn't about people getting blown up.
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Aug 19, 2016 18:01
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How can anyone tell that those are human shields vs IS dudes on foot?
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Aug 19, 2016 18:08
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Count Roland posted:How can anyone tell that those are human shields vs IS dudes on foot? Aside from this being a tried and true tactic they've used before, attacking that column would requires someone to make the call to drop JDAM's and Hellfires into a crowd of people who aren't carrying weapons to try and a few who are. The optics of that sort of action are horrendous and tend to make the problem worse before it makes it better.
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Aug 19, 2016 18:12
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slavatuvs posted:The SAA keeps using the wall of the artillery school in South Aleppo as a rest stop for infantry, so the Fastaqem Union set up an atgm on a building on the wall's flank, so far they have scored 4 devastating hits and the SAA hasn't seemed to notice that the soldiers are in a direct kill zone. SAA incompetence illustrated ehh. these are the same shitheads that bomb hospitals/schools/everything and and are starving civilians to death in aleppo. sure some are probably poor bastards who have been press ganged into service. but most are Assad loyalists and foreign fighters fighting for assad. gently caress em. i am surprised Assad's men(mercs or not) still have morale. I assume its a "if i surrender, i die horribly". syria is like the eastern front in ww2 at this point but with less tanks and more airstrikes. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 19:17
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professor_curly posted:Aside from this being a tried and true tactic they've used before, attacking that column would requires someone to make the call to drop JDAM's and Hellfires into a crowd of people who aren't carrying weapons to try and a few who are. The optics of that sort of action are horrendous and tend to make the problem worse before it makes it better. Yes I understand the utility of it. But from the photo I see trucks and people. I can't distinguish between IS fighters who aren't holding their guns, and civilians coerced into being human shields. Or is that exactly the point?
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Aug 19, 2016 19:28
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Yo Brown Moses what's the skinny on the rumors of the Incirlik nukes being moved? I got a guy from the Harvard Kennedy School of Government on Facebook telling me it's Russian disinfo.
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Aug 19, 2016 19:41
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slavatuvs posted:The SAA keeps using the wall of the artillery school in South Aleppo as a rest stop for infantry, so the Fastaqem Union set up an atgm on a building on the wall's flank, so far they have scored 4 devastating hits and the SAA hasn't seemed to notice that the soldiers are in a direct kill zone. SAA incompetence illustrated AT THE SAME SPOT! Holy poo poo. Dapper_Swindler posted:ehh. these are the same shitheads that bomb hospitals/schools/everything and and are starving civilians to death in aleppo. sure some are probably poor bastards who have been press ganged into service. but most are Assad loyalists and foreign fighters fighting for assad. gently caress em. i am surprised Assad's men(mercs or not) still have morale. I assume its a "if i surrender, i die horribly". syria is like the eastern front in ww2 at this point but with less tanks and more airstrikes. I mean... they're still people, but kinda yeah, most likely they're either Alawites fighting to retain their stranglehold over Syria or foreign Shiite mercs.
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Aug 19, 2016 19:44
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slavatuvs posted:The SAA keeps using the wall of the artillery school in South Aleppo as a rest stop for infantry, so the Fastaqem Union set up an atgm on a building on the wall's flank, so far they have scored 4 devastating hits and the SAA hasn't seemed to notice that the soldiers are in a direct kill zone. SAA incompetence illustrated Some of these attacks would be really bad off if they were using some sort of fragmentation warhead. Against infantry, they seem to be more like really expensive sniper rifles. Also, it looks like a Konkurs ATGM. But that hit on the BMP looked real bad. Rear flank hit on armor with something like that would have it brew up real quick. I've got to wonder, what side of that wall is rebel and what side is SAA? I'd assume the side where facing is SAA-controlled, so I'm wondering if that white van in the first video was rebels breaking out or a forward element of SAA forces heading back through. If it was SAA, I would wonder why the ATGM gunner didn't quickly reload and pop one off, because he probably could switch out the tubes by the time they all bunched up in the van. professor_curly posted:Aside from this being a tried and true tactic they've used before, attacking that column would requires someone to make the call to drop JDAM's and Hellfires into a crowd of people who aren't carrying weapons to try and a few who are. The optics of that sort of action are horrendous and tend to make the problem worse before it makes it better. It's too bad laser drones are like Of course, they'll wise up to it and probably strapping hostages to the the hoods of their cars all Lord Humongus like.
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Aug 19, 2016 19:46
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slavatuvs posted:The SAA keeps using the wall of the artillery school in South Aleppo as a rest stop for infantry, so the Fastaqem Union set up an atgm on a building on the wall's flank, so far they have scored 4 devastating hits and the SAA hasn't seemed to notice that the soldiers are in a direct kill zone. SAA incompetence illustrated I saw the third one today and it was hard enough to believe it happened. Seeing that this happened twice before is ridiculous, including three shots from the exact same position. I didn't want to share the video here because I felt they were too graphic because these are some of the most devastating ATGM hits I've seen in the war. Just these four hits alone is easily 40+ dead plus a destroyed vehicle (technical?). What sort of casualties are both sides suffering in this fight? Who can better handle these body blows? Is it possible that the rebels can absorb the damage to their numbers long enough for their cutting of a key supply line into West Aleppo to start having an affect? They have definitely taken to bombing civilian areas, presumably to cause panic and to use up as much medical capacity as possible. This would be the same reason that Russia has launched a full assault on the rebels medical infrastructure. This is such a ruthless conflict. What sort of troops are these shown in the video? I can't imagine that these are the Republican Guards or Tiger forces so perhaps these are the Iraqi militiamen sent to reinforce Aleppo or perhaps the Iranian militias recruited from Afghan refugees? What I don't understand is how tightly all of these soldiers are concentrating even after the attack. They definitely don't understand that they're under threat from a mobile rocket platform, perhaps they think it's a mortar that landed a lucky hit? Or are they under the mistaken belief that they're behind the front lines? In the third video the first attack perhaps killed and wounded a dozen soldiers but because they were stretched along the wall many would have avoided the hit, but in the second one they were clustered together enough that the loving thing exploded right in the middle of them all. Do we have any indication of what's really happening in Aleppo? The SAA was reporting success in both repelling two separate rebel offensives at cement plant and along the western road that leads to the 3000/1070 divide as well as reporting substantial progress against the rebels by pushing if not capturing the 1070 apartment complexes, and now that we're seeing them attacking the artillery school (this is that wall, correct?) that seems at least somewhat accurate. If these attacks are any indication the Assadists are making appreciable progress but are suffering from fighting in this terrain just as surely as the rebels must suffer from being in sight a tight area under the most intense aerial bombardment of the war. I think the failure of the rebels to capture the Cement plant bodes ill for their long term prospects because every day that goes by gives the regime more time to draw men and resources from throughout Syria and it allows them to shore up weak points in their defenses. Conversely, what will it mean if the rebels don't buckle under this pressure for another week? Another month? Another thing to consider is that these men are fighting in 100 degree weather in the middle of the day under no cloud cover with either cut or heavily contested supply lines. It must be a tremendous effort of logistics to keep these men appropriately hydrated, and that goes for both sides and with upwards of a million people on the government sides and anywhere from sixty thousand to a quarter million on the rebel side all of whom are draining the same resources as the armies stationed there. Supplies were already limited and I think there's a good reason there are talks right now over the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo.
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Aug 19, 2016 19:52
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Young Freud posted:Some of these attacks would be really bad off if they were using some sort of fragmentation warhead. Against infantry, they seem to be more like really expensive sniper rifles. Also, it looks like a Konkurs ATGM. Did you see the second half of the last one? It took out 20-25 easily, maybe more.
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Aug 19, 2016 19:53
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Brother Friendship posted:
I think this is a big part of why they bunching up, that wall provides shade.
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Aug 19, 2016 20:09
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slavatuvs posted:Did you see the second half of the last one? It took out 20-25 easily, maybe more. I rewatched it and it's hard to tell how effective it was because of all the smoke produced from the explosion. I will say there's not a whole lot of people mulling around after that second hit, but I''m not sure how many killed, wounded, or just shellshocked (in both definitions). slavatuvs posted:I think this is a big part of why they bunching up, that wall provides shade. I was figuring cover, that's why I made the comment about what side of the wall is controlled by who.
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Aug 19, 2016 20:11
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There are a lot of Iranian Basij fighting in Syria too. I have a Facebook friend from Iran who was bitching about one of his Basij friends being killed over there.Young Freud posted:I rewatched it and it's hard to tell how effective it was because of all the smoke produced from the explosion. I will say there's not a whole lot of people mulling around after that second hit, but I''m not sure how many killed, wounded, or just shellshocked (in both definitions). Yeah it's kinda hard to tell but when an explosion goes off that close to you, chances are a lot of those guys are at the very least wounded and out of commission for awhile and many of them will suffer from permanent hearing loss.
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Aug 19, 2016 20:12
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Young Freud posted:It's too bad laser drones are like "If you engage the convoy, we'll kill all the civilians"
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Aug 19, 2016 20:17
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Mr. Showtime posted:"If you engage the convoy, we'll kill all the civilians" I guess we'll see what it looks like when a human is hit by a 150kW laser then  Seriously, the military has been pretty shy about discussing using direct energy weapons against personnel, despite knowing that it'll eventually be used against human targets, and, rumor has it, that they don't want to leak test footage or descriptions of anti-personnel laser use because they want it to be somewhat deniable.
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Aug 19, 2016 20:33
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Brother Friendship posted:easily 40+ dead plus a destroyed vehicle (technical?) It's a BMP-2, amigo. Troop carrier with a 30mm autocannon on top. Those guys standing next to it were its crew. I'm surprised they didn't just gib the crew first then put a round in the vehicle. I guess the rationale is that either the vehicle is more expensive than the 6 or 7 mercs or that the missile is unlikely to kill the entire crew whereas if the vehicle is toast then it takes all their supplies with it and they're sitting ducks afterwards. Sergg fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 20:37
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Sergg posted:It's a BMP-2, amigo. Those rear doors are where the fuel tanks are. They can be pierced by .50 BMG armor-piercing incendiary rounds, something that happened regularly during the first Gulf War when the Barretts got introduced. So, you can imagine what'll happen when a tandem-HEAT warhead like a Konkurs slams into them. Typical Soviet engineering \/  \/
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Aug 19, 2016 20:46
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Young Freud posted:Those rear doors are where the fuel tanks are.
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Aug 19, 2016 20:53
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Young Freud posted:Those rear doors are where the fuel tanks are. They can be pierced by .50 BMG armor-piercing incendiary rounds, something that happened regularly during the first Gulf War when the Barretts got introduced. So, you can imagine what'll happen when a tandem-HEAT warhead like a Konkurs slams into them. There's another set of fuel tanks in the interior. It was standard operating procedure in intense conflict areas (eg. Afghanistan) to pour the fuel out of the door tanks and fill them with sand, apparently they sometimes forgot to do that in Chechnya. I don't know if Syrian crews are trained to do that and given the typical quality of Arab army NCO training in general and the state of the Syrian Army in particular I kind of doubt it, although maybe they've learned it the hard way by now.
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Aug 19, 2016 20:58
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Dapper_Swindler posted:ehh. these are the same shitheads that bomb hospitals/schools/everything and and are starving civilians to death in aleppo. sure some are probably poor bastards who have been press ganged into service. but most are Assad loyalists and foreign fighters fighting for assad. gently caress em. i am surprised Assad's men(mercs or not) still have morale. I assume its a "if i surrender, i die horribly". syria is like the eastern front in ww2 at this point but with less tanks and more airstrikes. Don't forget the foreign fighters who've been press ganged into service. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36035095 quote:At the port of Mytilene we found another group of young Afghan men. They all said they were ex-Fatemioun fighters.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:05
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Isn't BMP armor part magnesium? Or was that BRDM... foooosh.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:07
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Rust Martialis posted:Isn't BMP armor part magnesium? Or was that BRDM... foooosh. Pretty sure cooking people alive was a Bradley hat trick
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Aug 19, 2016 21:08
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Sergg posted:
Or they are fearfull. This whole "gently caress the shiite" business, has harmed the revolution considerably. Its not an official stance but these things lives on its own and left to fester.
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Aug 19, 2016 21:25
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Cat Mattress posted:The rear door tanks are extra tanks for long travels; on the combat theater they're supposed to be empty of fuel and filled with sand instead. The sand thing comes from an old manual for the BMP-1. It requires a bunch of work to disconnect the tanks from the fuel system and then to fill the tanks up. Even more work to disconnect the doors to empty the sand out, clean them out, and put them back on. It's never been a standard operating procedure kinda thing. Basically it's a thing that is theoretically possible but rare in practice because nobody wants to deal with a shitload of extra work to add 1/2 of a sandbag worth of protection to your rear armor at the cost of a dramatic reduction to the range of your APC. Easier to just leave them empty. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 19, 2016 21:32
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Warbadger posted:The sand thing comes from an old manual for the BMP-1. It requires a bunch of work to disconnect the tanks from the fuel system and then to fill the tanks up. Even more work to disconnect the doors to empty the sand out, clean them out, and put them back on. It's never been a standard operating procedure kinda thing. And also do you want to be the guy who has to clean out the fuel tanks and make sure there's absolutely nothing in it there that will clog up the fuel line?
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