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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Mister Facetious posted:I'm surprised they don't just take a page out of the GOP playbook, and symbolically try to pass it 47 times, like the GOP tried with attempting to repeal Neoliberal Obamacare. California Dems did that for single payer
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Jul 23, 2017 22:13
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WampaLord posted:You can't inject any reason right now, people are all aboard the USS Everything's hosed, maybe on Monday when we have actual details we can have a more productive discussion. It's not chicken littling there is really no reason to believe that there is going to be any improvement. Same people in charge pushing the same bullshit. Now they are stealing their slogan from Papa Johns. Atleast with Papa Johns you get a lovely pizza. I'm not looking for Full Communism now just some actual competency.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:28
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 medicare for all is super popular atm, but lets just keep the current system but deregulate it a bit this is the better way 
Condiv fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 22:30
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axelord posted:It's not chicken littling there is really no reason to believe that there is going to be any improvement. Same people in charge pushing the same bullshit. Now they are stealing their slogan from Papa Johns. Atleast with Papa Johns you get a lovely pizza. You're jumping to a judgement before we know the full details. Look, I'll agree, it's more than likely to be lovely and I have no doubt everyone here will claim it's the worst thing ever, but to me, this is a sign that the Dems are starting to wake up and learn the lesson of 2016. It's going to be a long journey, we shouldn't start it by going "gently caress, it's all pointless, burn it all down!"
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Jul 23, 2017 22:32
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Condiv posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uTsqJVAeo
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Jul 23, 2017 22:39
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WampaLord posted:You can't inject any reason right now, people are all aboard the USS Everything's hosed, maybe on Monday when we have actual details we can have a more productive discussion. Did you miss the article that quotes Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi saying "“[it] is not about moving the party left or right, and it’s not about appealing to one coalition or another. A strong, sharp-edged, populist, bold economic message appeals to the Obama coalition and the former Democrats who voted for Trump” and “[it] is not a course correction, but it’s a presentation correction”? When you have the party leaders coming out ahead of the big announcement to say it's the PR equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig, you should be worried. Because it's going to be a giant list of poo poo like - $15 a hour living wage! * - Job training! * - Lower prescription drug prices! * - Renegotiate trade deals! * - Expand broadband access for rural/low-income areas! * * In 2035. * Through tax credits for businesses * Through a government subsidy, with no attempt to actually lower prices * Through making new, even larger, trade deals * Through giving billions to corporations AT&T, Comcast, Charter, Verizon, etc. with no strings of them actually having to complete the project (And what do you think happens when all of these half-measures fail? It's used as an example of why progressive policies don't work.) Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 22:45
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Call Me Charlie posted:Did you miss the article that quotes Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi saying "“[it] is not about moving the party left or right, and it’s not about appealing to one coalition or another. A strong, sharp-edged, populist, bold economic message appeals to the Obama coalition and the former Democrats who voted for Trump” and “[it] is not a course correction, but it’s a presentation correction”? You're focusing on the messaging before we even know what the policies are.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:48
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Condiv you wanna tell D&D what you discovered or should I? edit: phonepost ded redd fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 22:48
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that's the republican plan lol
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Jul 23, 2017 22:52
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Condiv posted:that's the republican plan lol loving  get owned you loving Arzying idiots.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:54
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why is it blue then??? huh smart guy??
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Jul 23, 2017 22:56
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WampaLord posted:loving It's a pretty bad sign when people (including you) are capable of mistaking the ruling party's rhetoric for the opposition rhetoric
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Jul 23, 2017 22:57
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Neurolimal posted:It's a pretty bad sign when people (including you) are capable of mistaking the ruling party's rhetoric for the opposition rhetoric I never said anything about that health plan, I was only discussing the Better Deal stuff.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:58
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Neurolimal posted:It's a pretty bad sign when people (including you) are capable of mistaking the ruling party's rhetoric for the opposition rhetoric No, see, it's a good thing that they both use nearly identical language for nearly the same policies because it's proof that the stupid Arzying leftists are idiots 
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Jul 23, 2017 23:01
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...is it unreasonable to have the impression they're trying to advertise to businesses, not voters? I don't mean that in a cynical way. The outline is pretty much all stuff that would primarily be public-private partnerships. I'm being completely sincere, I don't see how what they're advertising could have been written with voters in mind. Are they just at a point where they think they've hit rock bottom and GOP can't gain seats so they can rely on Trump to scare up votes without engaging the electorate? It really comes off like they're courting donors with no concern for votes. Do they even know things are bad? Why are we voting for 90 year olds who probably still have new deal era as a frame of reference? How do we primary Schumer and Pelosi?
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Jul 23, 2017 23:11
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Sneakster posted:How do we primary Schumer and Pelosi? See, this is how I know you're a disingenuous idiot, because Pelosi already has a primary opponent lined up. http://observer.com/2017/04/nancy-pelosi-pro-sanders-primary-challenger-stephen-jaffe/
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Jul 23, 2017 23:13
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WampaLord posted:See, this is how I know you're a disingenuous idiot, because Pelosi already has a primary opponent lined up. Oh thank God.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:17
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Sneakster posted:...is it unreasonable to have the impression they're trying to advertise to businesses, not voters? No, because political parties are MLM scams that reward you based on your ability to solicit
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Jul 23, 2017 23:18
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Haha "clears out the bureaucracy" corporate speak for deregulate and cut, cut ,cut!
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Jul 23, 2017 23:23
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Democrats don't have a messaging problem, they have a policy problem. If the leadership was gonna head left, there'd probably be chatter about. As the chatter is about messaging, lol the democrats are a waste.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:34
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Kobayashi posted:Democrats don't have a messaging problem, they have a policy problem. They definitely have both.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:35
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Axetrain posted:Haha "clears out the bureaucracy" corporate speak for deregulate and cut, cut ,cut! It's sad that this has been used as cover for cutting essential services so many times that if someone came along who actually wanted to cut bureaucracy, they'd have to prove themselves to me by packing it with other things that'd have to be implemented first. For example, making the policies concerning college administration overpay contingent on free-community-college-for-all policies being implemented
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Jul 23, 2017 23:45
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Like 15$ an hour minimum wage and UHC are the absolute minimum they are going to have to come out in favor of for me to consider them redeemable. There is no reason other than being in the same wealthy pockets as Republicans for every Democrat to at the very least be firmly in favor of those two things.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:55
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WampaLord posted:They definitely have both. Axetrain posted:Like 15$ an hour minimum wage and UHC are the absolute minimum they are going to have to come out in favor of for me to consider them redeemable. There is no reason other than being in the same wealthy pockets as Republicans for every Democrat to at the very least be firmly in favor of those two things.
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Jul 24, 2017 00:14
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Bend the knee isn't sexist.
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Jul 24, 2017 00:50
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Nonsense posted:Bend the knee isn't sexist. Smell the glove is.
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Jul 24, 2017 00:53
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https://twitter.com/KateAronoff/status/888919403760431107 Are Troops.
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Jul 24, 2017 00:53
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the gently caress is there an uber tent there at all.
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Jul 24, 2017 01:16
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Mister Facetious posted:I'm surprised they don't just take a page out of the GOP playbook, and symbolically try to pass it 47 times, like the GOP tried with attempting to repeal Neoliberal Obamacare. That's what they did in California, passed single payer a bunch of times for Arnold to veto, "we just can't pass this because of those mean Republicans, keep voting for us to beat them", but then they accidentally caught that car when the voters believed them and gave them a supermajority plus the governor's mansion. So now it's "drafting legislation is really hard you guys. Gosh we'd love to pass something but we lawmakers just can't spend any time writing laws, ohhhhh well." *clinks champagne glasses with insurance and drug company lobbyists*
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Jul 24, 2017 01:18
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The day after the California Assembly speaker tabled single payer indefinitely, the Trump Depression Thread for Hand-wringing Liberals was full of the usual morons smugposting about how childish it is to expect lawmakers to write laws and Serious Adults all understand that you have to wait for the legislation fairy to leave a fully costed complete proposal under your pillow at night. Maybe some of you dumb lazy voters should have done all that work and stapled the full bill to your ballot 
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Jul 24, 2017 01:25
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the full bill existed. the CA dems just refused to vote for anything requiring taxes or actually going against the will of their corporate donors. single payer supporters in the senate put out the barebone bill as a tactic to get it before the assembly which then killed it of course they were more than happy to pass the gas tax
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Jul 24, 2017 01:30
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I'm getting the feeling that the Democratic Party is a waste... 
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Jul 24, 2017 01:54
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...a7e5_story.htmlNancy Pelosi posted:Last week, our nation marked six months since President Trump’s inauguration.
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Jul 24, 2017 02:33
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The past six months have exposed the toxic special-interest policies at the core of the republican agenda. The people deserve the toxic special-interest policies at the core of the democrat agenda. Better Deal.
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Jul 24, 2017 02:35
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Raskolnikov38 posted:the full bill existed. the CA dems just refused to vote for anything requiring taxes or actually going against the will of their corporate donors. single payer supporters in the senate put out the barebone bill as a tactic to get it before the assembly which then killed it they'd have to raise $600b in new taxes to cover the $300b in health care costs thanks to that school funding proposition, which is a bit of a sticking point
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Jul 24, 2017 02:47
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Tax credits for donors, and if you don't pay up we'll shake you down on selectively enforced anti-competition rules that we won't bother any major players with. I don't mean to be all STEMlordy, but aren't most of the skills and training for competition in modern economy based in uh, college education in technical disciplines? I don't think the minimum wage job with unstable less-than-full time hours you have a 1/48 chance of getting at a company that itself is getting a tax break worth more than you'll get paid after a mandatory unpaid two week training program run out of the local DSS where they ransom food stamps over attending, and gently caress you if you have class, is an effective method to make people competitive in modern economy.
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Jul 24, 2017 02:47
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quote:We are calling for a new There's the magic word.
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Jul 24, 2017 02:47
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tax credit for employers
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quote:Better Jobs, Better Wages, Better Future Uncle Tom's™
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Jul 24, 2017 02:47
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:they'd have to raise $600b in new taxes to cover the $300b in health care costs thanks to that school funding proposition, which is a bit of a sticking point i'd have to check but i heard the funding for the program was to be set up as a trust to get around that e: yep it would have created a trust to administer the funds http://www.healthycaliforniaact.org/wp-content/uploads/SB-562-QA-Flyer.pdf Raskolnikov38 fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 02:48
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Raskolnikov38 posted:cracking down on the monopolies and big corporate mergers that harm consumers, workers and competition. 
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Jul 24, 2017 02:50
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