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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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| B |
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77 | 25.50% |
| K |
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160 | 52.98% |
| M |
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65 | 21.52% |
| Total: | 229 votes | ||
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Like, I get it. Your gimmick is you say true things and then you say repugnant moral statements so you're Fulchrum But With Truth. The problem is with your premise. Fulchrum isn't Fulchrum because they're lying. They're Fulchrum because they say in dead set seriousness "TWO PLUS TWO EQUALS FORTY-SEVEN, AND IF YOU THINK ITS FOUR OR FIVE OR THREE YOU'RE RACIST poo poo WELL DONE BERNIBROS GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR ARITHMETICAL PURITY TESTS" That you don't realize the antidote to this is: being a normal person; this is troubling. This indicates to me you're educated enough to learn yourself into trouble but not enough to teach yourself out.
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Jul 24, 2017 07:33
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Where is TobelroneTriangular in our hour of need?
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Jul 24, 2017 07:48
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Reality literally outpaced him. He said as much.
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Jul 24, 2017 08:23
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Literally the best thing Democrats can come up with is 'desperately throw money to businesses to maybe train workers if they want'. It's like both sides think Shadowrun is the model government they want.
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Jul 24, 2017 08:36
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Inescapable Duck posted:Literally the best thing Democrats can come up with is 'desperately throw money to businesses to maybe train workers if they want'. their plan is warmed over reaganomics tax cuts for big business will revive our economy!
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Jul 24, 2017 08:50
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Inescapable Duck posted:Literally the best thing Democrats can come up with is 'desperately throw money to businesses to maybe train workers if they want'. They will keep breaking up their own country for scrap until they inadvertently scrap the spot they stand on.
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Jul 24, 2017 12:10
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Sneakster posted:I'll still be in America in spirit. By which I mean shielding all my assets in phony legal-minimum charitable foundation that reduces my taxable income by half and allow capital gains free investment in high risk international ventures that are transparent respectable-people laundering schemes that tax accountants literally advertise as the most blatant somehow legal yet clearly fraudulent tax dodge imaginable. It's always the assholes with the complicated tax dodges that cry the biggest crocodile tears about Trump's "social norms" and decorum, wonder why that is
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Jul 24, 2017 13:56
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call to action posted:It's always the assholes with the complicated tax dodges that cry the biggest crocodile tears about Trump's "social norms" and decorum, wonder why that is Respectability instead of substance has been the centrist philosophy for years, and is why the Democrats are the only ones who care about Russia and think Hillary is electable.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:02
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Every early runner on this Big Plan today smells of the revisionist history where they want something to bandy about like The Most Progressive Platform Ever while curiously* omitting the acrimonious brawl that was it being argued down to the present state by the establishment hardliners and no doubt a sea of asterisks being written in invisible ink next to what relative few things the Sanders folk were able to just barely drag onto it. There's this incredible streak of smug self-assuredness that things, and people, will just fall in roughly line under the money trees so long as they whisper a few mangled Secret Words in this era of dog whistles blowing people's speakers out.
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Jul 24, 2017 14:47
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cannot wait for the DNC's mixtape to drop
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Jul 24, 2017 14:56
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https://twitter.com/ezralevin/status/889483113881100288
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Jul 24, 2017 15:01
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Neither Better Nor A Deal
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Jul 24, 2017 15:08
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"Better Deal" in and of itself, could have been a fine slogan if you tied it back to the New Deal. But doing the Papa John's thing with the subtitle part of it...woof.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:14
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To be honest, I don't think single payer is a sufficient platform. Most people don't have problems with medical bills, and the mere leave of mind from single payer isn't going to materially affect the paycheck-to-paycheck life that people lead I'm not saying don't do it, but man it's like 5% of the problem and it's getting way more focus than poo poo like "capitalism sucks"
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Jul 24, 2017 15:17
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Most people don't have problems with medical bills, and the mere leave of mind from single payer isn't going to materially affect the paycheck-to-paycheck life that people lead Are you loving kidding me with this? Medical debt is a major reason for bankruptcy in America. 
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Jul 24, 2017 15:20
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Most people don't have problems with medical bills, and the mere leave of mind from single payer isn't going to materially affect the paycheck-to-paycheck life that people lead  you're loving kidding right? have you ever gone any amount of time without health insurance WJ? what about all the people working min wage jobs with kids? how are they supposed to afford treatment in todays system if their kids get sick?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:24
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You want a better deal? Guess you need somebody who has mastered the deal, an artist, so to speak
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Jul 24, 2017 15:24
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WampaLord posted:Are you loving kidding me with this? Medical debt is a major reason for bankruptcy in America. 2 million households living with medical bankruptcy in a country of 350 million is what I'm talking about
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Jul 24, 2017 15:25
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:2 million households living with medical bankruptcy in a country of 350 million is what I'm talking about a lot of which had insurance wj....
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Jul 24, 2017 15:26
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:2 million households living with medical bankruptcy in a country of 350 million is what I'm talking about So gently caress those people and gently caress anyone else struggling with medical bills? You sure you in the right thread, mate?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:28
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If nobody really cares about healthcare... what do people care about?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:29
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Absolutely do single payer for the 25% of Americans who say they struggle with medical bills, but realize that you're not addressing what the other 75% say they're struggling with
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Jul 24, 2017 15:29
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Condiv posted:a lot of which had insurance wj.... also bankruptcy is the worst case of medical debt. half a percentage point of houses in the us facing it is pretty high and indicates theres a lot more facing the lesser cases of medical debt (like crushing poverty)
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Jul 24, 2017 15:30
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steinrokkan posted:If nobody really cares about healthcare... what do people care about? Rent, wages, free time, generalized dignity in the workplace... Like I'm just saying that a single payer platform isn't populist enough
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Jul 24, 2017 15:30
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Sneakster posted:How do we primary Schumer and Pelosi? The problem isn't Schumer and Pelosi. This policy was hashed out by a number of Congressional Dems (as well as a small army of consultants), they're just the public face of it. To fix it, we've got to primary a lot more than just those two. WampaLord posted:"Better Deal" in and of itself, could have been a fine slogan if you tied it back to the New Deal. Nah, New Deal knockoffs rarely play well Carter's "Fair Deal" wasn't particularly memorable
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Jul 24, 2017 15:31
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Hm, maybe if you are struggling with mortgage payments, if I can help you reduce your insurance spending, you will have an easier time paying your other bills??? Expenses are not discrete procedures, they are part of the same equation.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:31
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Absolutely do single payer for the 25% of Americans who say they struggle with medical bills, but realize that you're not addressing what the other 75% say they're struggling with yes you are. they no longer have to worry about losing coverage cause they lost their job, or they switched employers, or they want to start a business. this helps small business owners too by making them pay less to insure their employees (via taxes) than larger corps do. the current system has that switched around making it harder for those middle class entrepreneurs you want to pretend exist actually start jobs. but why am i having to tell you democratic talking points when you're a dem. or at least you say you are but then you spout means testing and republican propaganda
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Jul 24, 2017 15:33
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Absolutely do single payer for the 25% of Americans who say they struggle with medical bills, but realize that you're not addressing what the other 75% say they're struggling with Jesus Christ, WJ. Don't you think any of those 75% might be uninsured, or paying crazy high premiums and could also benefit from single payer?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:33
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Rent, wages, free time, generalized dignity in the workplace... it's way better than what we've been offered so far, which is trickle-down welfare
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Jul 24, 2017 15:34
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Again, I supported Hillary not out of any affinity with her platform but out of an ethos of democratic centralism. My criticism here is to say that listening to the Sanders wing, you'd think that if we had single payer and free college, we wouldn't have people living in the economic conditions they face - that it would attract both the white working class that the Democrats have hemorrhaged over the past half-century and also disaffected non-voters. I think the pocketbook effects are overstated
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Jul 24, 2017 15:35
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WampaLord posted:Jesus Christ, WJ. No? 50% are employer-covered and don't see the premiums, 35% are Medicare/Medicaid
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Jul 24, 2017 15:37
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:No? 50% are employer-covered and don't see the premiums  You see the premiums being taken out of every paycheck, what the gently caress are you talking about?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:38
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Healthcare isn't an immediate concern unless you are sick. Then it is the highest concern. Most people have memories longer than 24 hours so they remember what it was like when they didn't have healthcare or couldn't afford the bills or the last time they were on death's door or their parents got sick or their friends went bankrupt or.....
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Jul 24, 2017 15:40
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WampaLord posted:
It's deducted before you see it in your bank account, and is as much a part of household budgeting as thinking about tax withholding
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Jul 24, 2017 15:41
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:It's deducted before you see it in your bank account, and is as much a part of household budgeting as thinking about tax withholding Do you really think that people don't know how much they're paying for their premiums? At most places I've worked, you have to renew it every year and you see the prices when you renew, so you get a nice yearly reminder in addition to the reminder you get every paycheck. Why are people complaining about rising premiums if they don't actually matter at all? Is it because they do matter and you're just insulated from the problem cause you're well off?
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Jul 24, 2017 15:46
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Again, I supported Hillary not out of any affinity with her platform but out of an ethos of democratic centralism. are you kidding? bernie had a platform way beyond healthcare and education. those are two major pain points right now though. everyone who's not rich is having trouble with healthcare costs and education costs. they're ridiculous. there are many other things that need fixing like minimum wage, labor abuse needs to be cracked down on hard, collusion between companies etc. etc. etc. but you can't just loving post a pdf of demands every time you want to send a message to someone. free healthcare can fit on a sign. free college can fit on a sign. free healthcare plus more regulations plus breaking up the big banks plus beefing up the DoL plus ... doesn't fit that well Condiv fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 15:53
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The idea that universal healthcare is unworkable or bad really flies in the face of the evidence from EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD COUNTRY that does it.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:55
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Condiv posted:are you kidding? bernie had a platform way beyond healthcare and education. those are two major pain points right now though. everyone who's not rich is having trouble with healthcare costs and education costs. they're ridiculous. I'm fine with starting there, but I've heard and continue to hear people suggest that it's an end not a beginning and that makes me really question where their heads are at
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Jul 24, 2017 15:56
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Spuckuk posted:The idea that universal healthcare is unworkable or bad really flies in the face of the evidence from EVERY OTHER FIRST WORLD COUNTRY that does it. The idea that universal healthcare solves the pocketbook issues facing Americans flies in the face of the evidence from etc. etc.
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Jul 24, 2017 15:57
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| # ? May 24, 2024 21:00 |
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steinrokkan posted:Hm, maybe if you are struggling with mortgage payments, if I can help you reduce your insurance spending, you will have an easier time paying your other bills??? 19.4 million people were under 50 percent of the poverty line in 2015. Not "under the poverty line", but under half the poverty line. Maybe fixing that would help people struggling with both medical bills and mortgage payments? 
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Jul 24, 2017 15:57
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