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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah its really all 100% the King's fault. He's a poo poo dad. he was totally going to be less poo poo the literal day ganon showed up 
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Mar 13, 2017 22:52
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I like the incredibly arbitrary rule of anyone below 17 years old not being allowed on Mt. Lanayru. Cause in this setting where people regularly live past 100, I'm sure 17 is the age where you can really be considered wise.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:52
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Zore posted:When is the king not a poo poo dad in a Zelda game? The CD-I King Hyrule seemed pretty jolly.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:53
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Also in SS Zelda's dad was a pretty nice guy. Granted he didn't do much to help but sitting back in letting Link do all the work is standard for NPCs in this series.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:57
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I mean from a meta, developer PoV of "things people complained about in the last game"-- if I was developing a game where everyone had complained about the sword talking in the last iteration of the game, having the subtle "hey look the sword's talking to everyone except you" would absolutely be something I worked in for the pure hell of it. Your last incarnation told Fi to shut the hell up one too many times. I may be wrong, but I'm headcanoning it and you can't stop me The complaints on Fi weren't "the sword is talking too much", it was "Fi is talking too much". They specifically bring up story beats in this game about the swords ability to talk, they show that it talks to Zelda, and they note that it doesn't talk to Link. It doesn't need to be shown, it doesn't need to be Navi-like, but any acknowledgment that Link had connected with the Master Sword would have shown he was connected/the hero. Its not that it talked to everyone but Link, its that it only talked to Zelda. Likewise, having Link casually talking to the Goddess all game while its said that only Zelda/Zelda's mom/people who can seal Ganon should have that power. Watching the memories I thought it was so obvious that Zelda/Link were role reversed that I was shocked at nothing happening at the end, like they added all of these beats and just made an ending devoid of any story. That this doesn't appear to register with anyone else makes me feel slightly crazy, but I really encourage people to go back and watch the memories again assuming Zelda is Courage and Link is Wisdom. a cartoon duck posted:Because Zelda is projecting hard on Link, and Link hears all sorts of supernatural poo poo like that sealed god in Hateno that nobody else can. I got concern, not projection. They had bonded a good deal by that point and she realized he was going through the same problems she was, except while she was praying to try to jumpstart things he was being courageous. Though what is this Hateno sealed god? Don't remember that being part of any shrine or quest. Ursine Catastrophe posted:he was totally going to be less poo poo the literal day ganon showed up Yeah the journals in the castle (and everywhere) were great. He just wanted to love his daughter but responsibility and poo poo.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:57
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Internet Kraken posted:Also in SS Zelda's dad was a pretty nice guy. Granted he didn't do much to help but sitting back in letting Link do all the work is standard for NPCs in this series. To be fair, he isn't a king 
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Mar 13, 2017 22:59
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Nephzinho posted:Though what is this Hateno sealed god? Don't remember that being part of any shrine or quest. Right after the entrance to Hateno if you do a hard right turn and walk down a hill you'll find a statue that looks slightly like a goddess statue but with horns that you can sell your heart containers and stamina vessels to and then repurchase them back as either stamina or hearts.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:01
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a cartoon duck posted:Right after the entrance to Hateno if you do a hard right turn and walk down a hill you'll find a statue that looks slightly like a goddess statue but with horns that you can sell your heart containers and stamina vessels to and then repurchase them back as either stamina or hearts. Ah I saw a tip screen prompt about that being possible "on the edge of the continent", didn't notice it in Hateno and had assumed it was going to be somewhere out in the middle of nowhere.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:03
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Yeah I wouldn't have found him either if the Deku Tree hadn't explicitly told me about him after I got 40 shrines.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:04
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a cartoon duck posted:Yeah I wouldn't have found him either if the Deku Tree hadn't explicitly told me about him after I got 40 shrines. I don't think I talked to the tree at any point outside of him explaining the master sword's test.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:07
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Nephzinho posted:I don't think I talked to the tree at any point outside of him explaining the master sword's test. His talk context point is a bit out of the way. It's a root in front of his face so most people would probably miss it.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:08
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I checked back with the tree after every extra heart until he eventually said yo you could pull out the Master Sword now if you replaced those stamina vessels with heart containers in Hateno. It's neat how the game always nudges you in the right direction like that. 8-bit Miniboss posted:His talk context point is a bit out of the way. It's a root in front of his face so most people would probably miss it. He only mentions the Hateno god if you try to draw the Master Sword after 40 shrines but less than 13 hearts, though, not when you talk to him directly.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:11
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Nephzinho posted:The complaints on Fi weren't "the sword is talking too much", it was "Fi is talking too much". They specifically bring up story beats in this game about the swords ability to talk, they show that it talks to Zelda, and they note that it doesn't talk to Link. It doesn't need to be shown, it doesn't need to be Navi-like, but any acknowledgment that Link had connected with the Master Sword would have shown he was connected/the hero. Its not that it talked to everyone but Link, its that it only talked to Zelda. Likewise, having Link casually talking to the Goddess all game while its said that only Zelda/Zelda's mom/people who can seal Ganon should have that power. Watching the memories I thought it was so obvious that Zelda/Link were role reversed that I was shocked at nothing happening at the end, like they added all of these beats and just made an ending devoid of any story. That this doesn't appear to register with anyone else makes me feel slightly crazy, but I really encourage people to go back and watch the memories again assuming Zelda is Courage and Link is Wisdom. It's true that there's things like that, but on the other hand Zelda is literally a scientist princess--that's wisdom, not courage. Link is a guy who wakes up naked one day and decides to go destroy the incarnation of evil because a ghost told him to. That's courage, not wisdom. The impression I got for Zelda's powers awakening wasn't that it was in a moment of courage, but rather that it happened in a moment of her wanting to use those powers for her own reasons, not just because its what's expected of her.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:13
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Internet Kraken posted:I like the incredibly arbitrary rule of anyone below 17 years old not being allowed on Mt. Lanayru. Cause in this setting where people regularly live past 100, I'm sure 17 is the age where you can really be considered wise. "Dangit, these kids keep freezing to death trying to get up here. Better make sure they're at least wise enough not to do that, I don't wanna be known as the Goddess of Attrition."
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Mar 13, 2017 23:14
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Bruceski posted:"Dangit, these kids keep freezing to death trying to get up here. Better make sure they're at least wise enough not to do that, I don't wanna be known as the Goddess of Attrition." Gotta keep those teens from shield-surfing on your holy mountain somehow.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:18
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I remember the "leaks" that occurred a week before the game came out that claimed that (spoilered because holy poo poo I haven't actually beaten the game yet and what if they're true lol no) the Silent Princesses were super plot critical because they'd be the only way to recharge the Master Sword after its energy was depleted and that's why they're on the logo, and there were two Zeldas, and that the Master Sword was needed to talk to Zelda 100 years in the past and the Zelda of the present was actually Link and Past Zelda's grandchild based on how Zelda wearing the white robe sorta looks pregnant if you look at it from a certain angle if you paused the final story trailer at the exact microsecond
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Mar 13, 2017 23:19
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Anybody got a nice easy source for a Zora spear?
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Mar 13, 2017 23:21
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I got my initial couple from the long trek to Zora's domain, a couple of Lizalfos had them.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:24
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Sade posted:Anybody got a nice easy source for a Zora spear? There are a couple along the path you take the first time you go to Zora's Domain.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:26
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Sade posted:Anybody got a nice easy source for a Zora spear? Fountain directly below the king under the stairs.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:26
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cheetah7071 posted:It's true that there's things like that, but on the other hand Zelda is literally a scientist princess--that's wisdom, not courage. Link is a guy who wakes up naked one day and decides to go destroy the incarnation of evil because a ghost told him to. That's courage, not wisdom. The impression I got for Zelda's powers awakening wasn't that it was in a moment of courage, but rather that it happened in a moment of her wanting to use those powers for her own reasons, not just because its what's expected of her. The wisdom/courage applications there are generic "I'm doing this thing that the story necessitates me doing" as opposed to the cutscenes that actually lay out the story beats. There's also the outside info that Link isn't with the master sword in any marketing materials or that the Silent Princess flower is all around the master sword/in the logo and the devs had commented on it being super important to the plot. Almost every cutscene adds something to the idea that their roles are reversed, and then the end just ends.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:30
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Nephzinho posted:The wisdom/courage applications there are generic "I'm doing this thing that the story necessitates me doing" as opposed to the cutscenes that actually lay out the story beats. There's also the outside info that Link isn't with the master sword in any marketing materials or that the Silent Princess flower is all around the master sword/in the logo and the devs had commented on it being super important to the plot. Almost every cutscene adds something to the idea that their roles are reversed, and then the end just ends. I mean, I feel like you're throwing out Link setting off heedlessly on an adventure with no memories on the word of a ghost he met hours after waking up in a weird cave as "something the story necessitates the player do" instead of also being something that is true in the story. I think you really want Zelda and Link's roles to have been reversed but I think you're reaching for evidence beyond that. The strongest evidence is that Zelda's power awakens in a moment of courage, but that's also because it was Zelda using her power for something she really wanted and not just because she was expected to. She really believed in that moment and that's what mattered. I also think Silent Princess flowers being around the Master Sword could just be because Zelda is the one who put the sword there, or symbolic of Link and Zelda's connection. I also think this game doesn't really make a big deal out of the Courage/Wisdom/Power thing like many other Zelda games do, so I don't know if I would necessarily say this is the game to look for that to factor into characterization all that much. That said, I definitely think it would've been really cool if Zelda had been the one to wield the Master Sword against Ganon while Link played a supporting role. Don't get me wrong, I'd be stoked to see that. I just think you're reaching to say that the game was aggressively setting it up and then pulling a bait-and-switch.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:40
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Man, today I set off with a single, simple goal: earn 7K more rupees to unlock the final Great Fairy. Took a suggestion to go mining with Wolf Link, thought i'd then try the hunting up north for gourmet meats since WL would also help a lot there. Eventually, a Guardian showed up and targeted wolf grampa and killed him. After a while, and a fire talos, I thought I had enough so i went down the mountain and noticed there's a northwest maze. On the way there I ended up fighting a Zebra Lynel and barely killing it thanks to all the abilities I had. Then I marched over and got to a mountain peak, noticing a shrine further west of the maze, which was oddly easy to solve. Avoided another Lynel near the shrine, then on my way to the maze I got killed by yet another Zebra Lynel who so happened to spam tracking shock arrows immediately. Finally got to the maze, solved it and then went over to Tarrey to sell off all the gems I got and finally went to unlock the fairy. By that point I knew that there was only one last maze left to do so I went for it, but on the way there I saw a shrine to tackle immediately after. I'm finally ready to call it a day when I reach the shrine.. and there's a lady in dire need of alcohol dying on the control panel. Welp. Went to the bar, got that whole sidequest started, took the ice to the place and told the lady where to get her booze on and the loving Sheika tells me entering the shrine is the challenge????? DID YOU PLAN FOR A DRUNKARD TO BE LAYING ON THE PANEL AT THAT TIME OF DAY, AT THAT TIME OF YEAR, IN THIS PART OF THE CONTINENT LOCATED ENTIRELY ON TOP YOUR ENTRANCE PANEL??? Did you somehow scheme the alcohol consumption patterns of the Gerudo 10000 years in advance???????? Anyways I finished getting the barbarian set at least and got a bizarre ending to my trip. Anyway that's my zelda report i hope i got a B+
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Mar 13, 2017 23:41
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The menu would be so much better if it was first clothing, then cooked food, then melee, then bows, then shields, then ingredients. Ingredients in the middle and I have to scroll right through it most of the time. The things you are changing most often are clothes and eating, while most weapon switching you do out of the pause menu.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:46
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Skyward Sword kind of did Link being in a supporting role anyway to be honest. Zelda was the one getting poo poo done while Link was mostly just following her footsteps for most of the game until the end, where he saves her and defeats Demise. I'd definitely like to see a playable Zelda or at least make her a co-protagonist one day but I'm not sure I could take another Skyward Sword either.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:56
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Harrow posted:That said, I definitely think it would've been really cool if Zelda had been the one to wield the Master Sword against Ganon while Link played a supporting role. Don't get me wrong, I'd be stoked to see that. I just think you're reaching to say that the game was aggressively setting it up and then pulling a bait-and-switch. As soon as Link got the bow with every shot I was waiting for it to happen. I think the game leaves a lot of very heavy handed hints at Link communicating with the goddess directly while Zelda communicates with the sword directly, etc, etc, that I fully expect postgame DLC expanding on it or some developer coming out and saying the ending wasnt finished. The nature of the open world game and people getting to the end with different amounts of story completed makes having a payoff like that hard to do for players missing certain pieces, but it was still incredibly disappointing. I mean, we saw the montage of Zelda and Impa going on adventures in SS, "going on an adventure" in itself doesn't embody courage in the Triforce. Coming out of SS and seeing the cutscenes here I fully expected this to be the equivalent of "see, this is what Zelda had to go through off screen, Link isn't the only one working at defeating Ganon and its not all sitting in prison cells for Zelda". They had the set up and building blocks to have a really nice reversal of the roles that would've better framed Zelda's role in several other games in the franchise and been a very "meta" move. What we got was just nothing. I mean, I still loved the game and did 120 shrines and am considering going back for another pass at seeds before getting the guide next month, but I the lack of an ending really soured the story for me.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:56
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Skyward Sword kind of did Link being in a supporting role anyway to be honest. Zelda was the one getting poo poo done while Link was mostly just following her footsteps for most of the game until the end, where he saves her and defeats Demise. Just go full Portrait of Ruin and have the player switch between Link and Zelda at will to use each one's unique abilities.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:58
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Skyward Sword kind of did Link being in a supporting role anyway to be honest. Zelda was the one getting poo poo done while Link was mostly just following her footsteps for most of the game until the end, where he saves her and defeats Demise. I'll be honest. I was sort of hoping BOTW would be the one where she was playable. Nintendo made such big talk of breaking conventions. This would have been it. Even Aonuma's dumb double speak made it sound like that was in the works.
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Mar 13, 2017 23:58
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8-bit Miniboss posted:I'll be honest. I was sort of hoping BOTW would be the one where she was playable. Nintendo made such big talk of breaking conventions. This would have been it. Even Aonuma's dumb double speak made it sound like that was in the works. Part of the marketing/dev talks outside influence as to why I thought the roles were reversed and it was cut/unfinished. Maybe story DLC being set post-game?
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Mar 14, 2017 00:01
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Harrow posted:Just go full Portrait of Ruin and have the player switch between Link and Zelda at will to use each one's unique abilities. I'm actually sorta astonished they haven't done this yet, except sort of in Spirit Tracks, in certain areas
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Mar 14, 2017 00:01
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Nephzinho posted:Part of the marketing/dev talks outside influence as to why I thought the roles were reversed and it was cut/unfinished. Maybe story DLC being set post-game? I'm not playing any hopes on that, but it definitely would be nice. But they already have my money for the season pass.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:08
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Nephzinho posted:Part of the marketing/dev talks outside influence as to why I thought the roles were reversed and it was cut/unfinished. Maybe story DLC being set post-game? You are extraordinarily upset that this game did not Deconstruct Tropes like you wanted.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:10
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Do we know anything about what the DLC is going to be, really? Outside of the Cave Of Trials in the first DLC, it seemed like everything was super vague.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:11
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Kelp Plankton posted:Do we know anything about what the DLC is going to be, really? Outside of the Cave Of Trials in the first DLC, it seemed like everything was super vague. 2nd DLC was a new dungeon and attached storyline I believe.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:13
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Oxxidation posted:You are extraordinarily upset that this game did not Deconstruct Tropes like you wanted. I am upset that they wrote a story completely disconnected from/lacking an ending. 8-bit Miniboss posted:2nd DLC was a new dungeon and attached storyline I believe. 1st DLC = Ordeals, new "map feature", hard mode. 2nd DLC = Story, new dungeon.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:16
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what the hells wrong with paya in this game
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Mar 14, 2017 00:18
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General Morden posted:what the hells wrong with paya in this game Take your shirt off and find out.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:21
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General Morden posted:what the hells wrong with paya in this game Being raised by Impa is not good for you
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Mar 14, 2017 00:24
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Nephzinho posted:I am upset that they wrote a story completely disconnected from/lacking an ending. I just think you're reaching farther than I'm willing to go to say that the game clearly set up a role reversal. I don't think it did--I think you're reading that into Zelda's struggle, but I don't think that's the only way to read it. Again, I'm very, very much not against a role reversal. I just don't think Breath of the Wild was setting one up as clearly as you did. It absolutely would've been cool but those weren't the signals I got from the game. It doesn't really play into the Power/Courage/Wisdom dynamic very hard and barely ever mentions the Triforce by name, too, so Zelda's power coming out in a moment of courage is, I don't think, quite as much of a sign as it would be if "courage" and "wisdom" were made a bigger deal of in other ways. I think it was just how badly she wanted to protect link and the fact that she was finally using her power for herself and not just to live up to expectations.
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Mar 14, 2017 00:34
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Harrow posted:I just think you're reaching farther than I'm willing to go to say that the game clearly set up a role reversal. I don't think it did--I think you're reading that into Zelda's struggle, but I don't think that's the only way to read it. Again, I'm very, very much not against a role reversal. I just don't think Breath of the Wild was setting one up as clearly as you did. It absolutely would've been cool but those weren't the signals I got from the game. It doesn't really play into the Power/Courage/Wisdom dynamic very hard and barely ever mentions the Triforce by name, too, so Zelda's power coming out in a moment of courage is, I don't think, quite as much of a sign as it would be if "courage" and "wisdom" were made a bigger deal of in other ways. I think it was just how badly she wanted to protect link and the fact that she was finally using her power for herself and not just to live up to expectations. When you have a very very limited amount of time to set up a story in flashbacks and jounral entries alone, and you spend that time setting up clear rules for which hero should be hearing voices from which divine sword/entity, and then having each hero struggling to hear the voice they're supposed to hear while hearing the other's without trying, regardless of the themes/tropes/whatever, I don't think its a much of a reach at all. 
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Mar 14, 2017 00:42
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