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I don't like G-Reco but I respect the opinions of the people who do and I think people who won't shut up about how bad it is need to get over it, it's been three years.
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Jan 25, 2018 09:01
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I will never shut up about how great it was that it showed us that mobile suits had toilets. For every complaint someone makes about g reco i will counter with mobile toilets.
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Jan 25, 2018 09:46
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Snooze Cruise posted:I love G-Reco because its a show that establishes the lower class used to been eaten by others in the most casual way possible and then completely flies by that point. It doesn't fly by that point, the casual racism faced by the Kuntala is a recurring theme of the show.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:05
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Barely. I remember it coming up being like "oh gently caress that's crazy I wonder what that's about" and it never pays off. The toilet stuff has more show don't tell than every weird story point in the show because it happens like 3 times in a one episode, everything else falls mostly under "don't show or tell"
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Jan 25, 2018 19:16
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DamnGlitch posted:Barely. I remember it coming up being like "oh gently caress that's crazy I wonder what that's about" and it never pays off. It shows up a lot. There's the whole thing with Mask's squadron being formed entirely of Kuntala because it's a test program, and after they prove successful a regular MS squadron is formed and they get a hug parade through the Capitol whereas Mask's Squadron wasn't publicized or talked about at all. People casually make disparaging remarks about them. Manny gets annoyed by her classmates asking her about being a Kuntala. Mask's entire deal is that he wants to use being a pilot as a chance to prove the worth of Kuntala, and his lower social status fuels his dislike for Bellri.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:25
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Arcsquad12 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwXulrMrrZU So excited.
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Jan 25, 2018 20:05
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Darkman Fanpage posted:So excited. Is this the last one before it "catches up" to the regular series or is there another after it?
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Jan 25, 2018 21:10
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Remind me never to post in the general adtrw thread again Jesus loving Christ
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Jan 25, 2018 22:05
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Arcsquad12 posted:Remind me never to post in the general adtrw thread again Jesus loving Christ lmao the sega font sure is scary
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Jan 25, 2018 22:11
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It's less that and the mere suggestion of using a software to generate tweening frames caused such a strong reaction.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:21
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Honestly motion interpolation software makes even regular TV look like a horrible cheap soap opera so I get where they're coming from. Meanwhile you have loving squash and smear frames made, manually, with 3d models in Overwatch and they make their highlight intros look extremely good.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:26
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Arcsquad12 posted:It's less that and the mere suggestion of using a software to generate tweening frames caused such a strong reaction. What would be the benefit of that?
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Jan 25, 2018 22:28
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People were being a bit snarky but I don't think it was that strong a reaction tbh. Like trust me, I would know about getting unprovoked strong reactions.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:29
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You know what, forget I brought it up.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:30
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Xarbala posted:Honestly motion interpolation software makes even regular TV look like a horrible cheap soap opera so I get where they're coming from. That, and even if the software becomes sophisticated enough to look competent it will still be completely soulless, lacking in any artistic merit and ultimately antithetical to the idea of art. Also as an aside coming in here to whine about another thread is insanely lame like holy poo poo.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:30
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Bite me.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:33
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Tbh reading the chat thread their reaction was more a bunch of goofs dunking on it and then you doubled down and called people "touchy" while they were moving on to other topics, so I think the one who got touchy about the subject was you Arcsquad, or you just didn't read the room and know to leave well enough alone in a chat thread.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:34
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Xarbala posted:Tbh reading the chat thread their reaction was more a bunch of goofs dunking on it and then you doubled down and called people "touchy" while they were moving on to other topics, so I think the one who got touchy about the subject was you Arcsquad, or you just didn't read the room and know to leave well enough alone in a chat thread. Yeah it really just reads like arcsquad came in looking for unanimous approval and got mad when people didn't agree with him.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:36
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Shinjobi posted:I will never shut up about how great it was that it showed us that mobile suits had toilets. So were there scenes where someone was on the shitter and had to jump back to the controls because "ITS A GUNDAM! ITS A GUUUNNNNDAAAAAAAAAM!" screams were coming across the intercom or what?
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Jan 25, 2018 22:38
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biracial bear for uncut posted:So were there scenes where someone was on the shitter and had to jump back to the controls because "ITS A GUNDAM! ITS A GUUUNNNNDAAAAAAAAAM!" screams were coming across the intercom or what? At the end of episode 3 the protagonist and 3 girls are together in the main robot's cockpit and he has to poop and it's very funny.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:40
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Goddamnit guys now Arcsquad is going to have to go to the General Mecha thread to complain about the Gundam thread.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:45
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Droyer posted:Yeah it really just reads like arcsquad came in looking for unanimous approval and got mad when people didn't agree with him. It's not that I'm looking for approval, I posited a question about interpolation and I was not expecting such a backlash against the technology. Anyways this is stupid.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:45
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Guy Goodbody posted:Goddamnit guys now Arcsquad is going to have to go to the General Mecha thread to complain about the Gundam thread. lmao
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Jan 25, 2018 22:48
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I will destroy all your art with my soulless corporate automation.
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Jan 25, 2018 22:52
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Arcsquad12 posted:It's not that I'm looking for approval, I posited a question about interpolation and I was not expecting such a backlash against the technology. Interpolation has never looked good my friend
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Jan 25, 2018 22:55
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Anyone have the bit from Gundam Sousei about tweening handy?
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Jan 25, 2018 22:55
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Droyer posted:That, and even if the software becomes sophisticated enough to look competent it will still be completely soulless, lacking in any artistic merit and ultimately antithetical to the idea of art.  Pictured: Soulful and full of artistic merit. Maybe this is just me being uninformed (certainly possible) but isn't the whole point of tweening frames that they are quick and dirty shots put in to bridge between the key shots that actually matter? Literal filler art that even the people involved can only spend so much time to keep on model? Wouldn't this be the exact time you'd actually want automation, to allow the artists involved to focus on the art that matters, rather than junk frames that no one is intended to see? Yeah, perfect world everything would be 100% effort all the time, but even good looking shows like g-reco had hilariously off model stuff like the above. Like, I get the computers takin-r-jerbs fear, wired tells me that in a few decades that computers will be writing cheap sci-fi and I'll be out of a job too, but If I had something that could fill in parts that I'm not interested in dedicating attention to in favor of focusing on key scenes I'd jump on that in a heartbeat. Caros fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 23:05
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Caros posted:
This isn't how doing in-between frames works though; At least for anime they have dedicated in-between artists who do those frames, so they don't take time from the key frame animators. And while I'm not saying tween frames are necessarily full of artistic merit, and they can certainly be ugly, I think it's a bridge too far to say that they can't have any artistic merit. As such, what this technology would do if it became common practice is relieve people of their jobs for something which is at best technically competent.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:11
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Caros posted:
Tweening has gotten a lot better since the 70s but automated tweens still look worse than hand-tweening. The big thing is that you can do stuff like smears by hand and while those look goofy as hell as stills they add a ton of motion and energy to the movements.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:13
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Droyer posted:This isn't how doing in-between frames works though; At least for anime they have dedicated in-between artists who do those frames, so they don't take time from the key frame animators. And while I'm not saying tween frames are necessarily full of artistic merit, and they can certainly be ugly, I think it's a bridge too far to say that they can't have any artistic merit. As such, what this technology would do if it became common practice is relieve people of their jobs for something which is at best technically competent. Isn't it a bridge too far to say that computer generated art cannot have any artistic merit? And yeah, technological unemployment is a bitch, but that isn't really an argument against the machines so much as societal structure. If machines replace people doing these frames it is because the machines are doing a better job at a lower cost. If their work doesn't have enough 'soul', studios will keep on humans to do the work, but I think you vastly overestimate how much anyone involved in making inbetween frames considers the artistic merit of their oddly-shaped gokus that will be seen for a fraction of a second. Improbable Lobster posted:Tweening has gotten a lot better since the 70s but automated tweens still look worse than hand-tweening. The big thing is that you can do stuff like smears by hand and while those look goofy as hell as stills they add a ton of motion and energy to the movements. Oh, I don't doubt it. I know that most tweening images look the way they look for a reason, be it cost-efficiency or artistic techniques that my 'can't-draw-a-stickman-with-a-straightlegging-rear end' cannot even begin to comprehend. My point was only that backlash against the technology on the grounds that it is 'soulless' seems weird to me. Caros fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 25, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 23:25
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I would like to think that people care about the thing they do for a living yes, particularly when it's part of an artistic project.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:29
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Caros posted:Maybe this is just me being uninformed (certainly possible) but isn't the whole point of tweening frames that they are quick and dirty shots put in to bridge between the key shots that actually matter? Literal filler art that even the people involved can only spend so much time to keep on model? Wouldn't this be the exact time you'd actually want automation, to allow the artists involved to focus on the art that matters, rather than junk frames that no one is intended to see? Yeah, perfect world everything would be 100% effort all the time, but even good looking shows like g-reco had hilariously off model stuff like the above. regular tweening can be quick and dirty, or it can be full of movement and character. computerized tweening can only be quick and dirty 
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Jan 25, 2018 23:31
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Guy Goodbody posted:regular tweening can be quick and dirty, or it can be full of movement and character. computerized tweening can only be quick and dirty oh my god i never noticed her neck movement before. MARGE-BOT ACTIVATE
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Jan 25, 2018 23:36
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We can already see the effects of interpolation software, and frankly much of it looks awful, especially in live-action. Apparently I'm not the only one who thinks it makes TV look like a cheap soap opera. https://gizmodo.com/james-gunn-and-other-top-directors-call-on-tv-makers-to-1819226242 The way to make animated automated tweening look good is to already start with a bunch of manual tween frames to work with, or to have so many keyframes for your software to draw from that you've basically lost whatever efficiency gains you were hoping to make before the software even comes into play. Tween frames make up at least 3/4ths of most animation and I'm being very conservative with that estimate. Keyframes are basically reference points around which inbetween frames are drawn and leave a lot of space for interpretation for inbetween animators to work with.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:41
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Crossposting this from the chat thread (hey we've come full circle!) because it is a Good PostSpace Flower posted:in-between frames aren't just a joke you put between quote marks and give to underpaid foreigners, and they aren't some bottleneck scapegoat that's preventing animators from ~flourishing~. it's this type of thinking from production companies and dudes in suits that leads to Less Cool to begin with, meanwhile actual problems like a painful lack of livable wages go ignored because gently caress it, animation is so easy a machine can do it, right? why pay people livable wages for unskilled labor???
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Jan 25, 2018 23:46
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Guy Goodbody posted:regular tweening can be quick and dirty, or it can be full of movement and character. computerized tweening can only be quick and dirty True! Computers aren't going to be replacing actual animators anytime soon. That said I was specifically replying to: quote:That, and even if the software becomes sophisticated enough to look competent it will still be completely soulless, lacking in any artistic merit and ultimately antithetical to the idea of art. Which I don't think is true. To be honest, from everything I've googled on the subject most 'automated' inbetweens are done by having a computer fill in the existing space between a number of inbetween frames anyways.
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Jan 25, 2018 23:46
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For example, keyframes of a ballerina jumping in a reasonably-budgeted work might only require three frames total: before the jump, at the peak of her jump, and the landing. Everything else is an tween frame, and therefore the vast bulk of the motion depicted is up to interpretation by the inbetweeners. Like the reason those youtube 60fps anime vids look so good and fluid is because the software is working with a whole bunch of frames, key and tween, that's already there. That would be the ideal use of interpolation tweening and probably what Arcsquad was musing about. In practice, however, you usually see motion interpolation software as basically the ultimate corner-cutter because any excuse to save money is seen as a good one. e: in other words: Arcsquad12 posted:And I think that unless these tools get used, they'll never improve. Can we leave it at that? This is a pretty naive sentiment, sorry. Motion interpolation software will likely not be used to make pretty anime better, but it will allow cash-strapped studios to make cheap anime even cheaper. You can already see it in western animation. Droyer posted:Crossposting this from the chat thread (hey we've come full circle!) because it is a Good Post It is Runa fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 25, 2018 23:53
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Caros posted:Which I don't think is true. To be honest, from everything I've googled on the subject most 'automated' inbetweens are done by having a computer fill in the existing space between a number of inbetween frames anyways. I think a great part of art's value comes from the artistic expression it allows. The intent of the creator, what they intend to convey being expressed through a piece of art is something I think is truly beautiful. I think this can come through the smallest thing, a bold brushstroke, a carefully chosen word, and through a single in-between frame in an anime. This is my genuine opinion about art and I'm not saying it's necessarily correct or that you have to agree but it was with that in mind I wrote that post. A piece of art created through an algorithm, no matter how human-like it may become, I think has less value because a computer does not have an artistic intent when creating and as such is incapable of genuine artistic expression.
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Jan 26, 2018 00:15
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someone making a thing by hand has value but if people can't tell the difference (or if they're close enough that people don't care) then it won't matter
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Jan 26, 2018 00:24
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Manatee Cannon posted:someone making a thing by hand has value but if people can't tell the difference (or if they're close enough that people don't care) then it won't matter People can tell the difference Guy Goodbody posted:regular tweening can be quick and dirty, or it can be full of movement and character. computerized tweening can only be quick and dirty It's pretty clear
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Jan 26, 2018 00:26
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