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Delivery McGee posted:That video posted a few pages back of artillery impacts from the target's POV is bad enough, but it was 3-5 guns firing one round each. Now scale that up to a hundred guns or more firing as fast as they can be loaded, 24/7, for a couple weeks. Ineffective as it sometimes was at cutting the wire and actually killing people, it does wear on the ol' morale to have everything around you constantly exploding for weeks at a time. Makes it hard to sleep, if nothing else. Ernst Juenger described being under an artillery barrage as being like tied to a post with you hands behind your back, while a giant of a man swings a sledgehammer at you over and over again, just barely missing you each time so you can feel the air move as it passes by your head. sullat posted:I think that was from Leyte Gulf and it kind of makes sense. The enemy doesn't know you're out of ammo and has to take evasive action, giving the carriers a few more minutes to escape. Also being in the air means you aren't on the escort carrier when it blows up 
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Feb 22, 2017 16:46
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sullat posted:I think that was from Leyte Gulf and it kind of makes sense. The enemy doesn't know you're out of ammo and has to take evasive action, giving the carriers a few more minutes to escape. Yeah, definitely sounds like Taffy 3. But still, making fake bombing/strafing runs when you're out of ammo is A Thing; that guy took it the extra mile. MikeCrotch posted:Ernst Juenger described being under an artillery barrage as being like tied to a post with you hands behind your back, while a giant of a man swings a sledgehammer at you over and over again, just barely missing you each time so you can feel the air move as it passes by your head. One of the British warrior-poets was an artillery officer. Robert Nichols posted:In my tired, helpless body Can't get the link around his name in the quote tag to work, but here's the whole poem. This one's similarly "I'm resigned to my fate but at least I have the biggest gun". Interesting contrast to Kipling, &c.'s "Britain is the bestest" and the more morose WWI poets. I have a soft spot for Kipling, despite him being Problematic, because my father quotes Gunga Din (lines 3-6) at times. I should introduce him to Nichols' work.
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Feb 22, 2017 17:06
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Ensign Expendable posted:There's also Russian Jewish Hitler, Hero of the Soviet Union. Gay Hitler Gitler
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Feb 22, 2017 17:13
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if only gay hitler were black
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Feb 22, 2017 17:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cda4kcB5sQ pop pop pop pop pop popopopopopopopoppopopopopop pop
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Feb 22, 2017 17:32
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Jobbo_Fett posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cda4kcB5sQ Yeah, WWI was that for weeks, sometimes months. And if you're on the sending end it's kinda nice, like popping bubble wrap writ large -- see the poet I quoted. Also US military operation names are supposedly randomly generated from a pair of lists, but I'm pretty sure there's a guy in the Pentagon repeatedly clicking the "roll the dice" button on the RNG until they get something that sounds cool. No way Rolling Thunder or Just Cause were randomly generated.
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Feb 22, 2017 18:18
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Delivery McGee posted:Yeah, WWI was that for weeks, sometimes months. And if you're on the sending end it's kinda nice, like popping bubble wrap writ large -- see the poet I quoted. really embarassing how they almost called the vietnam war operation iraqi freedom
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Feb 22, 2017 18:25
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Delivery McGee posted:Yeah, WWI was that for weeks, sometimes months. And if you're on the sending end it's kinda nice, like popping bubble wrap writ large -- see the poet I quoted. huh?
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Feb 22, 2017 18:29
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Delivery McGee posted:Yeah, WWI was that for weeks, sometimes months. And if you're on the sending end it's kinda nice, like popping bubble wrap writ large -- see the poet I quoted. I think you are thinking of Rainbow Codes
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Feb 22, 2017 18:45
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So how are operation names chosen?
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Feb 22, 2017 19:21
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Suggestions are spoken out lout in front of the highest ranking officers in charge of the operation. The one that causes the hardest murder stiffies wins.
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Feb 22, 2017 19:31
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That explains Operation Infinite Justice. I'm assuming in the modern era that it's based on focus testing and branding and other marketing crap.
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Feb 22, 2017 19:42
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I've always just assumed those were public facing "marketing" names, or just the top level operations got cool names. No need to keep it obscure since you're going to tell everyone about it anyway.
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Feb 22, 2017 19:52
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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The previous Pentagon plan in case of war with the UK was called War Plan Pig Romance.
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Feb 22, 2017 20:06
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PittTheElder posted:I've always just assumed those were public facing "marketing" names, or just the top level operations got cool names. No need to keep it obscure since you're going to tell everyone about it anyway. That is specifically an American thing though (see also y'alls love for contrived acronyms for laws like the Patriot Act). The British codename for the most recent Iraq war was Operation Telic while America called it Operation Iraqi Freedom (real subtle, guys), for example. Iraq 1 was Operation Granby not Desert Storm.
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Feb 22, 2017 20:09
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I prefer my military operations names to have some sort of subtle shadowy menace like Paperclip or MK Ultra. Spooky!
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Feb 22, 2017 20:15
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feedmegin posted:That is specifically an American thing though (see also y'alls love for contrived acronyms for laws like the Patriot Act). The British codename for the most recent Iraq war was Operation Telic while America called it Operation Iraqi Freedom (real subtle, guys), for example. Iraq 1 was Operation Granby not Desert Storm. I think I remember reading that the British started just picking random names after they realized how easy it was for them to tell what many Nazi operations where about just by their meaningful names. edit: I was thinking of Project Wotan, a single-beam radio navigation system named after the famously one-eyed god. The Brits just intercepted the code name, made an educated guess, and had countermeasures ready before the technology was ever deployed. Hargrimm fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 20:17
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Kemper Boyd posted:The previous Pentagon plan in case of war with the UK was called War Plan Pig Romance. You know that I want more And you know that I need war I want it big Your pig romance
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Feb 22, 2017 20:18
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Pontius Pilate posted:So I'm probably missing something obvious but how does one in WWI get past their own barbed wire in an assault? Have your engineers remove it the night before or some such? Just blow it up? S.L.A Marshall's Porkchop Hill has a bit where an American soldier, Pvt. McKinley, laid across barbed wire during an attack to retake an American outpost. quote:Then he said to Boatwright, "Watch me!" Again, he jumped towards the concertina. This time as he hit it straight on, in a diving motion. his arms went up to protect his face. The wire barrier went flat under his weight. Then he yelled back to Boatwright in a voice which rang clarion-clear above the sounds of fire, "Send the men over men!" 18 men crossed over McKinley, and the company took the hill with heavy casualties. McKinley survived, and was apparently one of the men in better shape, since he helped three more severely wounded soldiers to the rear. That, plus McCormick's story, says to me that using a man as a bridge works well enough to mention it in training. Probably has all sorts of useful training effects (at least in an earlier era when it was more acceptable to hurt recruits) about how physical obstacles can be overcome with courage and teamwork.
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Feb 22, 2017 20:26
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Hargrimm posted:I think I remember reading that the British started just picking random names after they realized how easy it was for them to tell what many Nazi operations where about just by their meaningful names. The hilarious thing was that the Wotan thing was entirely a fluke.
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Feb 22, 2017 20:28
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feedmegin posted:That is specifically an American thing though (see also y'alls love for contrived acronyms for laws like the Patriot Act). The British codename for the most recent Iraq war was Operation Telic while America called it Operation Iraqi Freedom (real subtle, guys), for example. Iraq 1 was Operation Granby not Desert Storm. Reportedly the Americans canned the random naming of operations when the invasion of Panama in the late 80s came up as Operation Blue Spoon because in the alleged words of President Bush the elder "I don't want to tell a mother your son died to make Blue Spoon a success"
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Feb 22, 2017 20:32
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Delivery McGee posted:Before they started mounting machine guns on airplanes (originally they were just used for observation) pilots only had their service revolvers, and did have pistol duels while flying. Did they reload artillery casings back then?
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Feb 22, 2017 23:21
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Cyrano4747 posted:Did they reload artillery casings back then?
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Feb 22, 2017 23:37
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Ferrosol posted:Reportedly the Americans canned the random naming of operations when the invasion of Panama in the late 80s came up as Operation Blue Spoon because in the alleged words of President Bush the elder "I don't want to tell a mother your son died to make Blue Spoon a success" 55 marines died in Operation Beaver Cage which sounds like a weekend at a Vietnamese brothel
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Feb 22, 2017 23:43
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There was Operation Timus Prime.... And working with parent nations, the US will generally let them pick the operation names to avoid cultural faux pas and to let the partner force be seen as the lead (current Iraqi operations for example)
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Feb 23, 2017 00:00
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Cyrano4747 posted:Did they reload artillery casings back then? Yes. I have a captured document where German artillerymen are being chewed out for not returning spent shell casings and instead making things like cup holders and wind chimes from them.
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Feb 23, 2017 01:08
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FastestGunAlive posted:The hell is this poo poo man Guess I should've put quotation marks around that part since "Oriental" and "type of poo poo" apparently weren't enough to make it clear I was being derisive of that attitude. Thanks for all the replies guys and gals!
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Feb 23, 2017 01:10
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Ensign Expendable posted:Yes. I have a captured document where German artillerymen are being chewed out for not returning spent shell casings and instead making things like cup holders and wind chimes from them. It's possible that the spent casings were recycled and not re-loaded, though.
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Feb 23, 2017 01:21
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At the battle of Ia Drang, one of the crew chiefs was codenamed "ancient serpent" or suchlike, and kept making dong jokes about it 
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Feb 23, 2017 08:46
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Hargrimm posted:I think I remember reading that the British started just picking random names after they realized how easy it was for them to tell what many Nazi operations where about just by their meaningful names. That's projects. Operational codewords became randomised when Churchill pointed out that you can't write a letter home to someone saying their son was killed in Operation Ballyho!
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Feb 23, 2017 09:14
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They weren't made immediately random (it's usually said that he selected "Overlord" himself and given the experience with German codenames "Bodyguard" for the deception at Dover-Calais is painfully on-the-nose), he was arguing for care to be used when selecting a name.quote:Operations in which large numbers of men may lose their lives ought not to be described by code words which imply a boastful and overconfident sentiment, such as “Triumphant,” or, conversely, which are calculated to invest the plan with an air of despondency, such as “Woebetide,” “Massacre,” “Jumble,” “Trouble,” “Fidget,” “Flimsy,” “Pathetic,” and “Jaundice.” They ought not to be names of a frivolous character, such as “Bunnyhug,” “Billingsgate,” “Aperitif,” and “Ballyhoo.” They should not be ordinary words often used in other connections, such as “Flood,” “Smooth,” “Sudden,” “Supreme,” “Full Force,” and “Full Speed.” Names of living people, ministers, or commanders should be avoided, e.g. “Bracken.”
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Feb 23, 2017 13:38
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And then we still ended up with 'Market Garden'.
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Feb 23, 2017 13:48
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At least it wasn't called operation Tulip Harvest.
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Feb 23, 2017 14:15
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Or Operation Dyke
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Feb 23, 2017 14:37
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Feb 23, 2017 14:42
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Feb 23, 2017 14:44
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SeanBeansShako posted:At least it wasn't called operation Tulip Harvest. drat Germans mowed down all the red ones anyways.
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Feb 23, 2017 15:17
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Do pre-twentieth-century soldiers remark on fear of disease, as they were far more likely to die of it than from combat, or are they inured to it? I imagine seeing a lot of comrades die making GBS threads themselves might be less traumatic when disease and death are much bigger parts of everyday civilian life.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:05
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vintagepurple posted:Do pre-twentieth-century soldiers remark on fear of disease, as they were far more likely to die of it than from combat, or are they inured to it? I imagine seeing a lot of comrades die making GBS threads themselves might be less traumatic when disease and death are much bigger parts of everyday civilian life. I have no expertise at all but even people who aren't at war drop like flies from diseases, so I expect that it's pretty low on the list.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:34
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spectralent posted:I have no expertise at all but even people who aren't at war drop like flies from diseases, so I expect that it's pretty low on the list. This is going to depend a LOT on where those people are from. If they're a slum dweller from a city, yeah, chances are they see a lot of people get sick and die. If they live out on a farm where they aren't crowded cheek by jowl with their neighbors and drinking from a well contaminated with sewage? Probably a LOT less in the way of randomly getting a bug and dropping dead.
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Feb 23, 2017 16:44
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