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Big Mean Jerk posted:See also; practically begging the "time traveler" from the 28th century to help him decide what to do and then going "Well, I was never actually going to listen to you Coincidentally this is also the best Picard monologue but I seem to be the only one who believes it.
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Mar 1, 2017 04:04
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" when the guy refuses
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Paradoxish posted:To be fair, the episode kind of, sort of addresses this by making it clear that the Federation is hosed. Picard is going for a hail mary because he thinks everyone is going to be dead or subjugated in six months anyway. Yeah it made sense to me, at first Picard is like "well sending them back to die is just crazy!" but when he hears Guinan out she tells him it might be the only way to keep the war from happening, it's not surprising that he'd go for it in desperation. Captain Garrett also does a 180 when Picard lets her in on everything: "hey keep this on the DL but the Federation is pulling an Imperial Japan here, the public has no idea how badly we're losing and we've all got six months before we're making snow angels on Rura Penthe so anyway welcome to the future".
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Mar 1, 2017 04:14
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Speaking of loving up the timeline, The Visitor really bothers me because apparently Sisko's disappearance somehow prevented the entire Dominion War. I mean it was nice that Jake rubber-banded his father back to the past and all so he wasn't lost in the astral plane or whatever, but was it worth the billions and billions of deaths?
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Mar 1, 2017 04:19
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VitalSigns posted:Speaking of loving up the timeline, The Visitor really bothers me because apparently Sisko's disappearance somehow prevented the entire Dominion War. Ehhhh, we're shown very little of the alternate "present timeline". We hear the Klingons have taken control of the station and that they're still there ~20 years later. The Dominion War could have still happened but no one mentions it, or the Klingons take a much harder line with them and the war is significantly shortened or something along those lines.
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Mar 1, 2017 04:35
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Kibbles n Shits posted:Coincidentally this is also the best Picard monologue but I seem to be the only one who believes it. Not "The Measure of a Man"?
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Mar 1, 2017 05:00
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VitalSigns posted:I mean it was nice that Jake rubber-banded his father back to the past and all so he wasn't lost in the astral plane or whatever, but was it worth the billions and billions of deaths? Timeline fuckery in Star Trek is all hilariously disturbing in its implications anyway. Don't forget that Voyager episode where Harry fucks up and the ship crashes on an iceball. Future Geordi pretty much says "hey, you know you guys are trying to just wipe us all out to save like 100 lives right" when he's chasing down Chakotay.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:08
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Best Picard monologue = "The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, etc." It had a huge impact on my ethical development anyway.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:20
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ITT I am watching Majel Barrett expose an emotionally vulnerable child to nude exotic dancing.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:21
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He turned out fiiiiine.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:33
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Apollodorus posted:Best Picard monologue = "The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, etc." Yeah, this is the gold standard for Picard speeches. My personal favorite is in The Drumhead, though it's not technically a speech, just his closing conversation with Worf. quote:Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. And then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
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Mar 1, 2017 05:38
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Patrick Stewart had a profound effect on my youth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TCX90yALsI Whenever faced with death, this scene has helped me tremendously. (skip to 1:10) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY3nY8SAnXs
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Mar 1, 2017 05:41
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Ehhhh, we're shown very little of the alternate "present timeline". We hear the Klingons have taken control of the station and that they're still there ~20 years later. The Dominion War could have still happened but no one mentions it, or the Klingons take a much harder line with them and the war is significantly shortened or something along those lines. Nah, I think the implication is that the Klingons mostly left the wormhole alone. The Dominion seems to prefer subterfuge and infiltration to outright warfare. They had to invade the Alpha Quadrant because they'd been exposed and decided to act while they still had the advantage of surprise. At the start though, they were happy to limit themselves to passive observation and infiltration and actively tried to play the Alpha Quadrant species against each other. Given the Klingons only got belligerent with the Federation in the first place because they were paranoid and changeling Martok was egging them on, I think it's reasonable to assume that the Empire in the Visitor timeline had been thoroughly infiltrated by the Dominion who were happily using them as a bludgeon/buffer against the other factions. Remember, the Dominion had existed for thousands of years and the Founders themselves were basically legends. Most of the Dominion races didn't even know who they were. They feared exposure and direct conflict more than anything else and twenty years is nothing to them. They were probably just being cautious and biding their time. The Visitor timeline isn't one where the Dominion War never happens, it's one where it hasn't happened yet.
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Mar 1, 2017 05:50
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Yeah, this is the gold standard for Picard speeches. My personal favorite is in The Drumhead, though it's not technically a speech, just his closing conversation with Worf. Worf did a really bad job of learning his lesson from that.
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Mar 1, 2017 06:22
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King Hong Kong posted:Worf did a really bad job of learning his lesson from that.  'Stuffy' is a great word for worf
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Mar 1, 2017 06:51
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VitalSigns posted:Speaking of loving up the timeline, The Visitor really bothers me because apparently Sisko's disappearance somehow prevented the entire Dominion War. Jake probably didn't know or if he did, didn't care about those implications. He wanted his dad back, that's reasonable enough.
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Mar 1, 2017 07:02
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Tunicate posted:
"Picard is too stuffy to enjoy himself on an exotic alien planet filled with unique pleasure" was like half of an episode
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Mar 1, 2017 07:08
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Rhyno posted:Whenever faced with death, this scene has helped me tremendously. I mean, not to dispute your point, but how often are you faced with death?
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Mar 1, 2017 07:09
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The Prime Directive is like the 3 Laws of Robotics, they sound good on paper but in practice they're silly and tend to hinder story telling rather than helping it. Stories end up being about breaking them constantly, so whats the point in having them?
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Mar 1, 2017 07:37
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twistedmentat posted:The Prime Directive is like the 3 Laws of Robotics, they sound good on paper but in practice they're silly and tend to hinder story telling rather than helping it. Stories end up being about breaking them constantly, so whats the point in having them? Picard looks at a normal victorian civilization of six-arm cows. Scans find only iron cow tools. "gently caress it, I don't want to talk to stupid cows. Mr. Worf? Warp Six." *Stock fly off SFX*
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Mar 1, 2017 07:43
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:I mean, not to dispute your point, but how often are you faced with death? This year so far? Jan 11th, one of my once best friends whom I had a stupid falling out with was shot dead. Feb 3rd, my buddies younger brother died of a heroin overdose. Feb 10th, my girlfriend's father lost his fight with cancer. Feb 20th, another friend of mine was killed in a car accident. Oh good it's March 1st, time for more people in my life to die.
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Mar 1, 2017 07:48
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Rhyno posted:This year so far?  dont even fink about it posted:The Prime Directive is not good in any circumstance, it is a horror and the sloppy, continuity error-ridden writing only makes it look worse.
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Mar 1, 2017 07:58
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twistedmentat posted:The Prime Directive is like the 3 Laws of Robotics, they sound good on paper but in practice they're silly and tend to hinder story telling rather than helping it. Stories end up being about breaking them constantly, so whats the point in having them? As a lifelong Asimov fan, I'd love to hear about all these stories where the Three Laws exist but are broken constantly, instead of used creatively. Please, enlighten us. 
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Mar 1, 2017 07:59
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Rhyno posted:This year so far? Just do what Star Trek actually taught you about death: Scream at the ceiling to scare away evil spirits!
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Mar 1, 2017 07:59
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Powered Descent posted:As a lifelong Asimov fan, I'd love to hear about all these stories where the Three Laws exist but are broken constantly, instead of used creatively. Please, enlighten us. You know. The two collections of short stories and several novels. But part of why this poo poo seems trite is because it's been exercised already.
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Mar 1, 2017 08:11
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I like it when robots show up on TV and in movies and are evil and do mean things like shoot people with lasers and turn them into other robots. It makes for good entertainment. I hope to one day be killed by a sentient machine and have my body repurposed into robot parts.
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Mar 1, 2017 08:12
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Gonz posted:I like it when robots show up on TV and in movies and are evil and do mean things like shoot people with lasers and turn them into other robots. Chances are the robots will just throw your body in the trash.
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Mar 1, 2017 08:15
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Cojawfee posted:Chances are the robots will just throw your body in the trash. Pfft. Like robots give a drat about sanitation.
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Mar 1, 2017 08:28
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Until he tries to get them all killed, I think the alien who replaces Picard in "Allegiance" is a better captain than Picard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Vadzjac6g I mean look at that poo poo. Who wouldn't want to follow that dude. He's giving positive reinforcement, improving morale, buying drinks even though drinks are totally loving free. All the bridge crew are like "Oh poo poo something's seriously wrong because Picard took the huge stick out of his rear end."
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Mar 1, 2017 08:34
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PostNouveau posted:Until he tries to get them all killed, I think the alien who replaces Picard in "Allegiance" is a better captain than Picard. Picard needed to have more drinking songs, it took us until Insurrection for him to belt out another drinking song, and he wasn't even drinking!
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Mar 1, 2017 08:41
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Nessus posted:Granting that the interpretation that a random comet that could easily be nudged into a different orbit with nobody the wiser is the Cosmic Sign of Fate is dumb as gently caress, what makes you say this? At a certain point you're saying that imposing your cultural values onto people weaker than you is A-OK. Yeah, the concept of the Prime Directive is fine if we go by TOS where deflecting asteroid from a pre-industrial civ was totally fine and not a violation.
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Mar 1, 2017 09:02
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Should I start my star trek adventure with deep space nine or the original series?
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Mar 1, 2017 10:04
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vermin posted:Should I start my star trek adventure with deep space nine or the original series? TOS, then TNG, then DS9. DS9 is great, but it's a lot better in the context of Star Trek. Really, TNG's a more viable place to start than either, and seriously worth considering (although you should probably skim through the highlights of the mostly abysmal Season 1 & 2). TOS has to be viewed through a bit of a lens these days due to its age and era, but TNG is still pretty palatable to modern viewers, and with the HD remaster looks amazing, even FX wise. And there's a reason it's a sci-fi behemoth; despite its flaws, TNG is an astonishing series at the high points. That said, if you really want to do the full Trek shebang, start with TOS. It's only three seasons and six movies. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 10:09
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vermin posted:Should I start my star trek adventure with deep space nine or the original series? TOS -> TNG -> DS9 although to get context for DS9 you really only have to watch TNG. TOS is still entertaining though, and definitely worth more than just kitsch value
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Mar 1, 2017 10:12
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Yeah, there's a really weird progression to "Our policy of non-interference"/General Order 1/The Prime Directive. When it comes up on TOS, Kirk angsts about it a bit, but ultimately decides that the damage has already been done and they have to do what's right. The best example is A Private Little War where he arms the peaceful natives so they can defend themselves against the warlike natives the Klingons armed. They also go out of their way to save doomed primitive societies in episodes like Return of the Archons (Kirk gives a little speech about how their society is hardly "evolving" under Landrew's rule) and The Paradise Syndrome (where they save the Planet of the Indians from a big ol' asteroid). Plus it's not just Kirk. In A Taste of Armageddon, the ambassador orders them to ignore their non-interference policy because "we really need a base in this sector, you guys" and in Spectre of the Gun their mission to explore apparently includes ignoring a bunch of "keep out" signs left by the locals (and almost gets them all killed). Now, obviously there was a conscious decision to make the Next Gen crew act less adventurous from the start, but somehow they seemed to get a bigger bug up their butts about the Prime Directive each time it came up. When Wesley breaks the plant, Picard is a complete shitheel, but he does intervene and reshapes their whole society in the process, but he had to do it for their own welfare. Later, when Data's pen pal's planet is dying he's super reluctant to save them, but does in the end, because it's still the right thing to do. Then when Worf's brother shows up in season seven, he straight up lets the whole planet it die for the sake of natural selection or something. Each time, the PD shows up, it seems to get more restrictive and less human until "doing what's right" apparently just doesn't matter and he commits genocide by inaction because "welp, rules are rules." I'm grateful that DS9 didn't really have a Prime Directive episode and Voyager mostly just paid it half-assed lip service because I really wouldn't want to see how they tried to top the moral travesties TNG was turning out (not that ENT didn't try). vermin posted:Should I start my star trek adventure with deep space nine or the original series? The original series is fantastic, imo, and it's really great to watch how the series evolves. There's a great sense of fun and adventure in TOS that can be lacking in early Next Gen. I also think TOS has the most immediately engaging bridge crew of any of them and Spock, in particular, is iconic for a reason. There's the usual caveats of watching a 50-year-old show, of course -- cheap sets, hammy acting, schlocky science, sexism, etc. -- but, in general, TOS holds up better than all but a handful of its contemporaries and still has some of the best hours of science fiction ever seen on TV. There are lots of "good episode" lists online (including in this thread), but, for the most part, you can just watch them straight through (or pick the ones with fun-sounding premises). The only important things to note are the original pilot, "The Cage," is practically a different (worse) show and best skipped and the third season had a steep drop off in quality due to budget and time constraints and is mostly crap. Save it for later. Happy treking!
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Mar 1, 2017 10:45
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Picard has tons of amazing monologues. I think it's fair to at least say the one from A Matter of Time could be most under appreciated one. I just love Stewart's performance on it, compared to his other more subdued, if more profound, speeches.
Kibbles n Shits fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Mar 1, 2017 |
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Mar 1, 2017 12:55
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vermin posted:Should I start my star trek adventure with deep space nine or the original series? TOS rules, but definitely give it a few episodes. You kind of have to get your bearings with 1960's TV, but by the time you do you should be in the best string of episodes in any Trek series. That is, starting at "The Menegerie" through the end of season one. That's like 15 episodes or so. I was stunned at how consistently good the back half of the first season was. If nothing else, watch those, but you should really watch the whole series. You do kind of need to watch TNG in order to get the most out of DS9. Not it's not necessarily important for setting minutiae, but for the contrasts in tone, the responses to some of Trek's older ideas, and some of the character backgrounds. DS9 is stands pretty well on it's own, but it's even better if you watch TNG first. Some of TNG is rough, but it's generally a good series. I'd recommend a "must-watch" list for the first two seasons, and the last season. But watch everything from season 3 through 6.
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Mar 1, 2017 13:54
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If you don't start with TOS, it will be hard to watch after the actually good trek.
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Mar 1, 2017 14:03
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Cojawfee posted:If you don't start with TOS, it will be hard to watch after the actually good trek. As someone who didn't start with TOS, this is extremely true.
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Mar 1, 2017 14:10
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I decided I haven't seen a Trek through in a very long time, so I'm going to watch TNG and keep track of some meaningless but amusing-to-me stats. Here's a preview; Shut Up: - Tasha: 1 - Worf: 1 - Geordi: 1 - Wesley: 1 Worf's Dumb About Klingon poo poo: 1 Tasha Yar Talks About Her poo poo Home: 1 I'm on episode 2.
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Mar 1, 2017 15:08
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Orv posted:I decided I haven't seen a Trek through in a very long time, so I'm going to watch TNG and keep track of some meaningless but amusing-to-me stats. Here's a preview; Someone gets possessed Someone gets knocked out
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