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MononcQc
May 29, 2007


lines of code as a measure of productivity. That works well.

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Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp

Carthag posted:

Python code:
import sys, re

DEBUG = False

data = None

if len(sys.argv) > 2:
	data = sys.argv[1:]
elif len(sys.argv) > 1:
	f = open(sys.argv[1])
	data = f.read().split()
else:
	print 'usage: shaggarscript.py [tokens | file]'
	exit()

register = 0
stack = []

def pop():
	if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('pop\n')
	global register
	register = stack.pop()

def push():
	if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('push\n')
	global register
	stack.append(register)

def inc():
	if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('inc\n')
	global register
	register += 1

def dec():
	if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('dec\n')
	global register
	register -= 1

def add():
	if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('add\n')
	global register
	register += stack[-1]

def sub():
	if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('sub\n')
	global register
	register -= stack[-1]

def out():
	if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('out\n')
	sys.stdout.write(chr(register))

instruction_map = {
	'python': pop,
	'java': push,
	'good': inc,
	'bad': dec,
	'lol': add,
	'idiot': sub,
	'language': out
}

for token in data:
	token = re.sub(r'\W+', '', token)
	if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('%s %s %s\n' % (stack, register, token))
	if instruction_map.has_key(token):
		instruction_map[token]()
		if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('=> %s %s\n' % (stack, register))
	else:
		if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('nop\n')
	if DEBUG: sys.stderr.write('---\n')
python shaggarscript.py java good java lol java lol java lol java lol java lol java lol java is good. few languages are good good good good good good good good good good. java is a good language. unlike python, its a really good good good good language. not a bad bad bad language. python is so bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. really bad bad bad bad bad bad... few things are as bad. so, so bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. a bad language. python? python is poo poo. python is not good. not a good language.

p-langs sign my paycheck and shaggar's right

e: oh sorry lmao thats the output

good

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



once shaggarscript becomes the web standard we can all be shaggars

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

lines spent, not lines written.

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

MononcQc posted:

lines of code as a measure of productivity. That works well.

i rolled a die, turns out some numbers are SIX TIMES others. will report back.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

you're a goddamn genius and you can't come up with a slight against spolsky better than "the name of his company with a gay slur slapped in"

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
"Detailed examination of Sackman, Erickson, and Grant's findings shows some flaws in their methodology (including combining results from programmers working in low level programming languages with those working in high level programming languages)."

the paper itself is about comparing offline to online programming. they interviewed less than a dozen people. once. for half an hour.


by a similar method I have concluded that all good programmers wear glasses.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Jonny 290 posted:

p-langs sign my paycheck and shaggar's right

e: oh sorry lmao thats the output

good

oh also that is the input. any shaggarpost is now a script!

Janitor Prime
Jan 22, 2004

PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean

Fun Shoe

tef posted:

"Detailed examination of Sackman, Erickson, and Grant's findings shows some flaws in their methodology (including combining results from programmers working in low level programming languages with those working in high level programming languages)."

the paper itself is about comparing offline to online programming. they interviewed less than a dozen people. once. for half an hour.


by a similar method I have concluded that all good programmers wear glasses.

Probably true though since computers gently caress our eyes :(

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
oh and lotus 1-2-3 3 was rewritten in C from assembly language :v:

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

JawnV6 posted:

you're a goddamn genius and you can't come up with a slight against spolsky better than "the name of his company with a gay slur slapped in"

after i hit submit i came up with "fog creak" but it's post post post not post edit edit

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
the annoying thing is not that someone went 'herp derp look this means some people are far better than others by comparing a distribution amongst 12 programmers' (pretending the distribution is V shaped, with no middle ground)

the annoying thing is that the actual useful finding - we were not able to correlate between years of experience and performance - is ignored.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

Cocoa Crispies posted:

after i hit submit i came up with "fog creak" but it's post post post not post edit edit

it should be

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

tef posted:

the annoying thing is not that someone went 'herp derp look this means some people are far better than others by comparing a distribution amongst 12 programmers' (pretending the distribution is V shaped, with no middle ground)

the annoying thing is that the actual useful finding - we were not able to correlate between years of experience and performance - is ignored.

my favorite thing is that everybody things there the 10% because nobody wants to say "yes look at me im a lovely programmer"

and i talked to someone the other day who believed the camel has two humps and was like "oh man we gotta mke cs education suck less because most people dont understand variables"

i could probably publish some non-peer-reviewed research papers saying that ruby is objectively better than aynthing else and recall it later and it would be qft for like 10 years b/c nobody does verification research

Catalyst-proof
May 11, 2011

better waste some time with you

Suspicious Dish posted:

my favorite thing is that everybody things there the 10% because nobody wants to say "yes look at me im a lovely programmer"

and i talked to someone the other day who believed the camel has two humps and was like "oh man we gotta mke cs education suck less because most people dont understand variables"

i could probably publish some non-peer-reviewed research papers saying that ruby is objectively better than aynthing else and recall it later and it would be qft for like 10 years b/c nobody does verification research

look at me im a lovely programmer

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
basically

there was the one where they compared perl to line noise, because they used a textbook to teach one language, and perl tutorials found on google.


oh and the stack-ranking bullshit where some people must always be in the 10% who suck

Socracheese
Oct 20, 2008

I'm a totally lovely programmer. what even constitues a 'good' coder? volume of work done? how well the code is written? whether or not the code just loving works? income? whether or not your job is stupid and affects nobody vs life-critical software? does personal hygiene enter into the equation?

Plastic Snake
Mar 2, 2005
For Halloween or scaring people.
there are no good programmers

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

It's great how there is no truly reliable quality metric for code or software in general (past concurrent implementations of a program, and even then), and eventually it all goes back to lines of code or seconds of downtime with some arbitrary severity value.

Then we build on that because what else are we gonna do?

double sulk
Jul 2, 2010

it's me. i'm the worst programmer.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

MononcQc posted:

It's great how there is no truly reliable quality metric for code or software in general (past concurrent implementations of a program, and even then), and eventually it all goes back to lines of code or seconds of downtime with some arbitrary severity value.

Then we build on that because what else are we gonna do?

99.9999% uptime (except when aws crashes)

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

Socracheese posted:

I'm a totally lovely programmer. what even constitues a 'good' coder? volume of work done? how well the code is written? whether or not the code just loving works? income? whether or not your job is stupid and affects nobody vs life-critical software? does personal hygiene enter into the equation?

if your customers and peers like you and want to continue working with you you might not be a 'bad' coder

MononcQc posted:

It's not a joke, it's pretty much how it works. The vote in by the community is done through polls and/or e-mails and mailing lists. It's not a council of elders so to say, but it's a list of people like the inventors of the language, former winners of the award, people who used it since the 90s when it was behind closed doors at Ericsson, etc.

Plastic Snake
Mar 2, 2005
For Halloween or scaring people.

Cocoa Crispies posted:

if your customers and peers like you and want to continue working with you you might not be a 'bad' coder

So yeah basically personal hygiene

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008

MononcQc posted:

It's great how there is no truly reliable quality metric for code or software in general (past concurrent implementations of a program, and even then), and eventually it all goes back to lines of code or seconds of downtime with some arbitrary severity value.

Then we build on that because what else are we gonna do?

I'm always curious about how quality metrics are carried out in other fields and if we can learn anything from them.


gucci void main posted:

it's me. i'm the worst programmer.

Considering you can't get a real job in the best economic times for a software engineer? I'm inclined to agree.

Socracheese
Oct 20, 2008

Cocoa Crispies posted:

if your customers and peers like you and want to continue working with you you might not be a 'bad' coder

nope this is true and i'm still a 100% poo poo coder

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

FamDav posted:

Considering you can't get a real job in the best economic times for a software engineer? I'm inclined to agree.

yeah totally. i mean it's not like it's a nepotistic system. or that small companies are hard to find. or that large employers often want conflicting sets of requirements. personally i love looking for work in a city I don't live in.


me, i struggle with *finding* jobs I want to apply for. most of the work out there is in another domain (mostly mobile, ui stuff), and i'm way out of practice. a lot of the places are obviously terrible

there are a lot more jobs for people who write database skins and want to be paid nothing

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

Suspicious Dish posted:

99.9999% uptime (except when aws crashes)

friends don't let friends use us-east

Cocoa Crispies
Jul 20, 2001

Vehicular Manslaughter!

Pillbug

tef posted:

friends don't let friends use only us-east

Janitor Prime
Jan 22, 2004

PC LOAD LETTER

What da fuck does that mean

Fun Shoe

tef posted:

friends don't let friends use us-east

us-west-2 ftw!

MeruFM
Jul 27, 2010
measuring by code anything is the worst

a good programmer can explain issues to other programmers
bonus points if they can also explain to non-technical
if you have self-diagnosed assburgers and are stuck in your ways, you're a really bad programmer

It also a personality thing. A person who is not afraid to tackle issues and solve them properly instead of bandaging without becoming a sperg about minute details and irrelevant/unnecessary/unwanted features.

also see: why open sores has 'great' code but poo poo everything else


but srs, nyone who woulda been a good prog has left already

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008

quote:

but srs, nyone who woulda been a good prog has left already

I realize this is half-joking, but why do people always say this with derision? Similarly, why are people so disdainful of moving into a higher level position? In other occupations that's exactly what you aspire to.

tef posted:

yeah totally. i mean it's not like it's a nepotistic system. or that small companies are hard to find. or that large employers often want conflicting sets of requirements. personally i love looking for work in a city I don't live in.

I'm not saying it isn't difficult, or that (any) form of job search will not involve some level of nepotism. However,






gucci void main posted:

gas -> this thread

and constant bandwagoning on what's popular or immediate dismissal of a language/framework while language hopping without doing anything meaningful beyond "todo web app" is not going to put you in the right mindset nor give you the right skills to get the job you want.

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

"Good programmers are people who are like me, and bad programmers are those who think or work differently" -- blog post of the week on what's a good programmer.

5 bonus points if the blogger has "maintains a programming blog" as a positive criterion.

MeruFM
Jul 27, 2010

FamDav posted:

I realize this is half-joking, but why do people always say this with derision? Similarly, why are people so disdainful of moving into a higher level position? In other occupations that's exactly what you aspire to.
In most careers, you don't enjoy your work, you enjoy the money. So you enjoy your career more if you go up and make more money.

In engineering, you [probably] enjoy the work [to some extent] and higher positions mean you do less of it and more of the lovely[er] stuff.

MeruFM
Jul 27, 2010
and you're on the yos so you probably like the engineering part quite a bit and also have burger disease which make the human interaction of management all the worse

Toady
Jan 12, 2009

FamDav posted:

I realize this is half-joking, but why do people always say this with derision? Similarly, why are people so disdainful of moving into a higher level position? In other occupations that's exactly what you aspire to.


I'm not saying it isn't difficult, or that (any) form of job search will not involve some level of nepotism. However,







and constant bandwagoning on what's popular or immediate dismissal of a language/framework while language hopping without doing anything meaningful beyond "todo web app" is not going to put you in the right mindset nor give you the right skills to get the job you want.

yo this ain't CoC

Deacon of Delicious
Aug 20, 2007

I bet the twist ending is Dracula's dick-babies

FamDav posted:

I'm not saying it isn't difficult, or that (any) form of job search will not involve some level of nepotism. However,


and constant bandwagoning on what's popular or immediate dismissal of a language/framework while language hopping without doing anything meaningful beyond "todo web app" is not going to put you in the right mindset nor give you the right skills to get the job you want.

so, don't do like sulk does. this is a thing you feel needs to be pointed out

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Toady posted:

yo this ain't CoC
yeah didnt know we were ON THE RECORD here

double sulk
Jul 2, 2010

I work on non todo apps, I just find it all boring but am not in a position to learn interesting stuff

(This is a drunk iPhone post. Love you guys )

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
oh god what's with all the capitalization in here

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double sulk
Jul 2, 2010

tef posted:

oh god what's with all the capitalization in here

iPhone does it automatically :(

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