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What an observation.
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May 3, 2017 00:27
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Manatee Cannon posted:I don't think secret empire is actually a story about how nazis are cool or good Just like most people who take issue with Secret War don't think Marvel's actually going to keep Captain America as a Nazi, most people who take issue with Secret War don't actually think that Marvel Editorial has a mandate to make Nazis cool and good, but "let's take an iconic character that represents freedom and justice and punching Hitler in the face, created by a couple of Jewish guys, and write a story where he gets magicked into always having been a Nazi" along with all the other dumb poo poo that springs forth from that decision, written by a guy who spends all his free time being a dickhead on Twitter, sure does have what the kids these days are calling "bad optics."
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May 3, 2017 00:29
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nobody's saying the story isn't dumb
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May 3, 2017 00:33
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Kai Tave posted:Just like most people who take issue with Secret War don't think Marvel's actually going to keep Captain America as a Nazi, most people who take issue with Secret War don't actually think that Marvel Editorial has a mandate to make Nazis cool and good, but "let's take an iconic character that represents freedom and justice and punching Hitler in the face, created by a couple of Jewish guys, and write a story where he gets magicked into always having been a Nazi" along with all the other dumb poo poo that springs forth from that decision, written by a guy who spends all his free time being a dickhead on Twitter, sure does have what the kids these days are calling "bad optics." Secret War was the good event (also several bad events and a non-event miniseries), this is Secret Empire the bad Captain America event (that was also a good Captain America storyline 40 years ago).
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May 3, 2017 00:32
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Nick Spencer defended a Nazi when he got decked as a matter of free speech.
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May 3, 2017 00:32
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Roth posted:Nick Spencer defended a Nazi when he got decked as a matter of free speech. As much as everyone would like to shut up those assholes, punching people is not a matter of free speech. And Cap has long history of defending even vile free speech long before Nick Spencer showed up.
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May 3, 2017 00:37
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Nick Spencer is a racist and loves Nazis and wrote a story where Captain America A) is a Nazi and B) the nazis being in control is portrayed as something that's debatably good and comforting for the civilians. It's very comforting to know that despite all this, he's definitely not a Nazi.
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May 3, 2017 00:37
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Skwirl posted:Secret War was the good event (also several bad events and a non-event miniseries), this is Secret Empire the bad Captain America event (that was also a good Captain America storyline 40 years ago). My bad, can't keep all these secrets straight.
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May 3, 2017 00:39
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Manatee Cannon posted:I don't think secret empire is actually a story about how nazis are cool or good Yea, I have no idea how that sentiment exists with people who've actually read the books. Steve is clearly the villain here. Dark Knight Returns is more pro fascism than SE is. I'm curious if the people who are bitching to comic store employees are actually buying the books, or ever intended to buy the books. Nick Spencer comes across as those lefties that think repeating "I do not agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it" is the highest stage of leftism when tolerance of intolerance is not tolerance or a virtue. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 00:41 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 00:38
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Dan Didio posted:Nick Spencer is a racist and loves Nazis and wrote a story where Captain America A) is a Nazi and B) the nazis being in control is portrayed as something that's debatably good and comforting for the civilians. He wants to send all the undesirables to concentration camps. Cap thinks it will be comforting and its not going to be.
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May 3, 2017 00:40
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In the interests of fairness and in the spirit of Secret War Empire Crisis, let's all say one good thing about the Nazis
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May 3, 2017 00:39
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bobkatt013 posted:He wants to send all the undesirables to concentration camps. It's good that Nick "The Ever Loving, Blue Eyed, Blonde Haired, Leather wearin'" Spencer, is stoking a reasonable debate around this.
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May 3, 2017 00:40
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Please let this event play out, in the end Cap will be not a loving fascist just like he hadn't been for three quarters of a goddamned century! Also Miles stabs him on the steps of the Capitol and then he comes back not Hydra! It'll be great! Also, if your worldview is predicated on the violent extermination of another group of people you relinquish all rights not to be punched in your racist head, that's the social contract.
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May 3, 2017 00:40
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Nick Spencer passionately arguing that people shouldn't be punched for the mad poo poo they say is probably more a self-preservation instinct than any ideological stance.
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May 3, 2017 00:43
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X-O posted:As much as everyone would like to shut up those assholes, punching people is not a matter of free speech. And Cap has long history of defending even vile free speech long before Nick Spencer showed up. Counterpoint https://twitter.com/prttybadtweeter/status/822620848897069056
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May 3, 2017 00:50
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Ookay I'm as put off by Secret Empire as any other card-carrying internet SJW ought to be but whaaat is happening in this thread right now. e: To be clear, I'm glad Marvel were forced to defend themselves in a release (such as it was). They've been relying on schlock-value provocation to sell their books for ages and any tiny part of this mindset biting them in the tush gives my tush a jolly good feeling. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 00:57 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 00:52
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Don't buy the book.
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May 3, 2017 01:43
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That's a terrible use of that song.
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May 3, 2017 01:46
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Aphrodite posted:That's a terrible use of that song. Yeah, I shoulda gone with the MIA version of the clip. Or Thin Lizzy. I was in a rush and am now phone posting.
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May 3, 2017 01:53
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Mr Hootington posted:Don't buy the book. Thank you!!! I wish everyone here that was against the book would just shut the gently caress up already. This argument is so played out. It's done and over. The book is going to be released. All 9 issues of it and its tie-ins. Captain America is HYDRA and at the end of the event will go back to being normal Cap. At the end of the day the author and Marvel don't give a poo poo what you think because people are buying this book. Arguing about it like a bunch of loving goons doesn't solve a drat thing.
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May 3, 2017 01:57
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I mean. They do care if they're doing a "please, guys, let the book play out (we're not nazis we swear)" statement. That said, yeahhhhh this thread went stupid places.
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May 3, 2017 02:00
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pubic works project posted:Thank you!!! I wish everyone here that was against the book would just shut the gently caress up already. This argument is so played out. It's done and over. The book is going to be released. All 9 issues of it and its tie-ins. Captain America is HYDRA and at the end of the event will go back to being normal Cap. At the end of the day the author and Marvel don't give a poo poo what you think because people are buying this book. Arguing about it like a bunch of loving goons doesn't solve a drat thing. I wish everyone would talk about things in the discussion forum in the marvel thread.
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May 3, 2017 02:02
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:I mean. They do care if they're doing a "please, guys, let the book play out (we're not nazis we swear)" statement. That said, yeahhhhh this thread went stupid places. I think it went to a stupid place when the mod said it was wrong to punch Nazis.
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May 3, 2017 02:10
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Dan Didio posted:I wish everyone would talk about things in the discussion forum in the marvel thread. Oh go ruin DC Comics some more, Didio.
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May 3, 2017 02:12
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I think if you release a book or a movie it's reasonable to suggest that people should read/watch the whole thing before commenting. If you're releasing your story in half a dozen bites over several months, nobody has the option to read/watch the whole thing, so you should expect people are going to react to what's directly in front of them. I guess you can say "this is all going to make more sense once you've seen the rest", but if your initial issues/episodes are really pissing people off and turning them off from wanting to see the rest, that's your own drat fault and you did not do a good job.
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May 3, 2017 02:12
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X-O posted:It's not for you or I to tell any creator what to write and how to write it. Just because you don't like a story or I don't like a story doesn't mean the creator shouldn't be able to tell it. That's up to that writer and their editors and the company they work for. Whether we like it or not should never enter the equation until it comes time to hand over the money or not. Haha what is this dumb drivel. Free speech  I yell at no one in particular,
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May 3, 2017 02:17
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Skwirl posted:I think it went to a stupid place when the mod said it was wrong to punch Nazis. I also went full free speech so he is either a Nazi or Nick Spencer. But I repeat myself.
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May 3, 2017 02:19
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Scyther posted:I think if you release a book or a movie it's reasonable to suggest that people should read/watch the whole thing before commenting. Yeah this is what I was trying to (and maybe not) getting at earlier. It's one thing to say "well have you read the whole thing," it's another thing to say that when the whole thing won't be finished and done for nine months or more. Expecting people to restrain themselves from all commentary or criticism until the end of the run is both unrealistic and fuckin stupid, and so if the thing you lead off with is "hey here's a story about Captain America the secret Nazi" then you don't get to shield yourself from criticism by playing the "but you haven't seen the ending yet!" card.
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May 3, 2017 02:26
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Either way it's going to be bad
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May 3, 2017 02:28
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pubic works project posted:Thank you!!! I wish everyone here that was against the book would just shut the gently caress up already. This argument is so played out. It's done and over. The book is going to be released. All 9 issues of it and its tie-ins. Captain America is HYDRA and at the end of the event will go back to being normal Cap. At the end of the day the author and Marvel don't give a poo poo what you think because people are buying this book. Arguing about it like a bunch of loving goons doesn't solve a drat thing. It's true, change comes mostly by sitting silently and making sure nobody kicks up a fuss.
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May 3, 2017 02:28
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Mr. Maltose posted:It's true, change comes mostly by sitting silently and making sure nobody kicks up a fuss. Yes because comic books are exactly like politics and social change.
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May 3, 2017 02:31
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pubic works project posted:Yes because comic books are exactly like politics and social change. Yes? Literally everything is. It's not the most glamorous Avenue but mass changes don't really happen. It's always a slow process.
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May 3, 2017 02:35
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pubic works project posted:Yes because comic books are exactly like politics and social change. Art is both inherently social and political, this is some sub-101 level poo poo.
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May 3, 2017 02:35
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pubic works project posted:Yes because comic books are exactly like politics and social change. Yes, it's very shocking to think that they would politicize the superhero who wears an american flag costume + shield who was involved in WW2 and beat up Nazis.
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May 3, 2017 02:41
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BrianWilly posted:Ookay I'm as put off by Secret Empire as any other card-carrying internet SJW ought to be but whaaat is happening in this thread right now. If you go by the repeated posting by Dan Didio, Marvel Comics, after becoming a sentient person, personally came to his house, your house, my house, and everyone else's house, took a big poo poo on your plate, pulled out a Luger pistol and forced you to eat it, then they forced you to beat up your jewish friend with a baseball bat autographed by Super Hitler. Does anyone else remember that story about Cap yelling at people about how twisted the US had become? I've seen it posted in the Touching/Inspirational thread before. I wonder if people freaked the gently caress out about it as much as this during that time considering Cap was telling the US to gently caress off. e: nah BetterToRuleInHell fucked around with this message at 02:55 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 02:47
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No because telling the US to gently caress off is pretty good a lot of the time actually.
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May 3, 2017 02:52
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:If you go by the repeated posting by Dan Didio, Marvel Comics, after becoming a sentient person, personally came to his house, your house, my house, and everyone else's house, took a big poo poo on your plate, pulled out a Luger pistol and forced you to eat it, then they forced you to beat up your jewish friend with a baseball bat autographed by Super Hitler. These are all things I said, yes. Wait! No theyre not! What the heck!
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May 3, 2017 03:01
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Dan Didio posted:These are all things I said, yes. Ok, so it was a Walther P38, my bad.
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May 3, 2017 03:10
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Dan Didio posted:These are all things I said, yes. You actually did say it at one point, but thanks to hypertime and frequent reboots that's a noncanon story now
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May 3, 2017 03:14
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Nuns with Guns posted:You actually did say it at one point, but thanks to hypertime and frequent reboots that's a noncanon story now Actually he never said it, it's just that Kobik altered history to make him say it so we could be having this discussion right now. Or Marvel used their power to make us realize he had said it. Actually I don't know it's all convoluted. Forget it Jake, it's Batman's Shameful Secret.
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May 3, 2017 03:19
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