|
new phone who dis posted:This is a straight-up right wing talking point. right wingers: well known for their staunch support of BLM, the innocence project, and vehemently opposed to the death penalty  sorry bidya gaems made you functionally illiterate~
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 07:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 08:19 |
|
|
new phone who dis posted:In 2011 the government specifically and illegally instructed colleges to take up the mantle of judge and jury on student's lives using a much lower standard of proof and stripping the accused of the rights they would normally have. We are now in the full-on disaster phase of this instruction, where even most feminist professors admit it's a completely failed and unfair system. Unfortunately, the tribe of modern feminism disagrees even with the professors who are the source of their own ideology and continues to defend this type of behavior with what amount to right-wing talking points and fear-mongering. [citation needed]
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 07:42
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:We are now in the full-on disaster phase of this instruction, where even most feminist professors admit it's a completely failed and unfair system. The full-on disaster phase where almost, but not quite, 30 of these incidents are happening PER YEAR! That's ALMOST as much as the number of actual loving rapes happening per year at Harvard alone! And Harvard isn't even the university with the highest rape statistics in the United States!
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 07:44
|
|
|
stone cold posted:[citation needed] I truly wonder if you really think you've done anything to bring people around to your way of thinking in this thread. Do you think people look at your cheap and annpying pedantry and decide to join your movement because of it? Do you realize you're doing no favors for yourself, your allies, or anyone you claim to represent? You're part of an utterly toxic subgroup preaching only to itself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 07:45
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:In 2011 the government specifically and illegally instructed colleges to take up the mantle of judge and jury on student's lives using a much lower standard of proof and stripping the accused of the rights they would normally have. why aren't you demanding jury trials for expulsion for poor academic performance or plagiarism universities have a moral and legal obligation to prevent sexual assault on their campuses. their tools to do so aren't up to the task by any measure - and it's not like the public legal system offers a functional example to follow.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 07:46
|
|
|
foolish_fool posted:I think that the first step is to think about how you are assigning motive to things. If you start with the assumption that evil femminists are dishonestly trying to push an agenda, then that is where you are going to end. But if you can conceive that maybe people are actually acting in good faith, you might get somewhere. The gaps you see in headlines aren't dishonest, they are starting points into an incredibly complex discussion (or even without the discussion, you want to get people thinking). "I wish there was more thought into proper analysis" is along the same lines, it assumes that the people doing this are lazy or incompetent or something whereas maybe its just insanely hard / they did what was possible given their expertise and the data. And then if you go into an actual discussion from the starting point of trying to refute the evil "statistical misrepresentations", obviously people are going to be defensive / respond in equally bad faith (as has been the result in this thread). Whereas if you are willing to actually accept things as useful data points as pieces of a puzzle, and actively want to make the world a better place for everyone, then you can more productively think about/discuss how we fix problems or even better collect/analyse/market information, etc.. The media and the columnists who perpetuate this have well and truly exhausted the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this topic. They have been repeatedly shown exactly why what they are saying is wrong and misleading but they continue to push it. The only conclusion possible is that they don't care that it's not correct, they care that it is popular. The average person who reads and believes theses columns on the other hand, I agree they deserve the benefit of the doubt, which I endeavour to give them. The problem I encounter is the misrepresentation is so pervasive, and seen as so morally just that to oppose it (no matter how gently and fact based your approach) is incredibly hard to do and results in accusations and ad-hominens as displayed in this thread. I am genuinely interested in the root causes of the earnings gap, and any genuine societal problems we can fix to improve everyone's lot but I see the "gender wage gap" as an obstacle to meaningful progress on this as the falsehood dominates the narrative. Smorgasbord fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jan 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 07:47
|
|
|
Somfin posted:The full-on disaster phase where almost, but not quite, 30 of these incidents are happening PER YEAR! That's ALMOST as much as the number of actual loving rapes happening per year at Harvard alone! And Harvard isn't even the university with the highest rape statistics in the United States! There isn't a clear picture of how often this happens because the system isn't accountable to itself. The only ones you will hear about are the people willing and with the means to fight it. There are probably a lot more minority student being impacted by it on scholarships that you will never hear about because their parents can't afford a lawyer. Keep telling yourself it's a good thing, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 07:47
|
|
|
Feminism has two definitions -- the "politically correct" definition that so called feminists always retreat to -- i.e advocacy for the equality of sexes -- and the operating definition: Resentment of men and a demand that society be remade so that women are pampered at men's expense. Actual equality between the sexes was achieved in the 1970s. Feminism since has been nothing but women demanding that being treated like equals is too harsh and that they should be privileged, also at the same time they shouldn't be called out for wanting to privilege women over men. Feminists are envious of the top earning men and powerful men, but they are blind to all the lower tier men who are not rich and have no power. Also due to an inherent bias of biology women prefer each other's company and association to that of men, and no one gives them poo poo about it. A female will get the benefit of the doubt in a way that a man will never. Given the inherent bias women have in favor for each other, it's problematic that Human Resource departments are staffed by primarily by women.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 07:48
|
|
|
Cease to Hope posted:why aren't you demanding jury trials for expulsion for poor academic performance or plagiarism Creating a system of kangaroo courts where an outside accusation can get someone expelled and black-balled even when the supposed victim insists the sex was consensual is not the answer. This is what happens when you let activist-based hysteria take the lead. There is no argument for this type of system that is morally or ethically correct, just more naked tribalism and fear-mongering. The answer to stopping difficult to prosecute crimes is not government-sanctioned vigilantism performed by unqualified university personnel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 07:50
|
|
|
Aging Millenial posted:Feminism has two definitions -- the "politically correct" definition that so called feminists always retreat to -- i.e advocacy for the equality of sexes -- and the operating definition: Resentment of men and a demand that society be remade so that women are pampered at men's expense. *stabs self in eye with nearest pen*
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:03
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:*stabs self in eye with nearest pen* He agrees with you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:05
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:I truly wonder if you really think you've done anything to bring people around to your way of thinking in this thread. Do you think people look at your cheap and annpying pedantry and decide to join your movement because of it? Do you realize you're doing no favors for yourself, your allies, or anyone you claim to represent? You're part of an utterly toxic subgroup preaching only to itself. But enough about you and gamergate
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:06
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:*stabs self in eye with nearest pen* these are your actual talking points 
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:07
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:There isn't a clear picture of how often this happens because the system isn't accountable to itself. The only ones you will hear about are the people willing and with the means to fight it. There are probably a lot more minority student being impacted by it on scholarships that you will never hear about because their parents can't afford a lawyer. Keep telling yourself it's a good thing, though. You're entirely right. This world we live in is one that could coincide with what you say being true. But possibility and probability are not the same thing, and do you really think that the number is off by a factor of 2,000? E: And stop plagiarising from that online petition, it's really loving obvious you don't know what any of those words mean.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:07
|
|
|
Somfin posted:You're entirely right. This world we live in is one that could coincide with what you say being true. But possibility and probability are not the same thing, and do you really think that the number is off by a factor of 2,000? It doesn't have to equal the number of rapes to be a bad thing. It's not a contest.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:13
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:It doesn't have to equal the number of rapes to be a bad thing. It's not a contest. Somebody please use all the fire departments in this country to put out this match!!! What, put out the fire that extends from coast to coast? Ppft that's fake news from feminazis, 
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:15
|
|
|
Somfin posted:He agrees with you. In a terrible, unproductive and repulsive manner. If only everyone was so critical of their "allies".
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:15
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:Creating a system of kangaroo courts where an outside accusation can get someone expelled and black-balled even when the supposed victim insists the sex was consensual is not the answer. This is what happens when you let activist-based hysteria take the lead. you are a hysterical activist though
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:15
|
|
|
stone cold posted:Somebody please use all the fire departments in this country to put out this match!!! Fire is a big problem. Let's set up a fire gestapo to take down anyone even suspected of liking fire. This will work out well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:16
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:In a terrible, unproductive and repulsive manner. If only everyone was so critical of their "allies". so to be clear, you love his ideas
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:16
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:Fire is a big problem. Let's set up a fire gestapo to take down anyone even suspected of liking fire. This will work out well. ok but now you've turned the analogy into liking rape do you not see how this reflects poorly on you
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:17
|
|
|
stone cold posted:so to be clear, you love his ideas No, his whole thing about lower class men being ignored or whatever is laughable and his view of women is infantile and assumes the worst from the outset. We probably agree on some talking points here and there but his argument is not my argument.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:18
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:No, his whole thing about lower class men being ignored or whatever is laughable and his view of women is infantile and assumes the worst from the outset. We probably agree on some talking points here and there but his argument is not my argument. I'll concede the point that unlike you he never wrote a creepy screed on raping women.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:19
|
|
|
stone cold posted:ok but now you've turned the analogy into liking rape All fire is not bad and all sex is not rape. In this analogy, the university is finding people with fireplaces and dragging them into court for arson.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:19
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:No, his whole thing about lower class men being ignored or whatever is laughable and his view of women is infantile and assumes the worst from the outset. We probably agree on some talking points here and there but his argument is not my argument. You agree on literally all points. In his little screed I found no points that you haven't already independently raised. new phone who dis posted:All fire is not bad and all sex is not rape. In this analogy, the university is finding people with fireplaces and dragging them into court for arson. Holy gently caress dude. First you defend the KKK, now you're saying that literally all sexhaving men get falsely accused of rape.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:22
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:All fire is not bad and all sex is not rape. In this analogy, the university is finding people with fireplaces and dragging them into court for arson. I'm pretty sure I wrote the analogy, and the match was those 140 "cases" versus the fire of every college student who is a victim of sexual violence, but you keep on loving those embers, duder. sorry gamergate broke ur brain
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:23
|
|
|
Smorgasbord posted:The media and the columnists who perpetuate this have well and truly exhausted the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this topic. They have been repeatedly shown exactly why what they are saying is wrong and misleading but they continue to push it. The only conclusion possible is that they don't care that it's not correct, they care that it is popular. "The media" aren't really a single entity so much as a wide collection of different people. I think it is possible or even likely that there are some columnists that are deliberately misleading (from any side). And if they continue to make deliberate errors then you should obviously not trust what they say and encourage people you know to seek more reliable sources. But, if you are saying that anyone who mentions/highlights that there is an overall gap between earnings of women and men is being misleading, then I think again, you are assigning malice or dishonesty (and indeed misleadingness) when none exists. At worst, a journalist misunderstands the boffin they are trying to talk to and makes an innocent mistake. More likely, they actually say useful things but maybe just using words or narrative you don't like? A journalist or columnist probably isn't an expert statistician but instead an entertainer and communicator, and a column is not a piece of scientific literature. And quoting an overall most basic figure to get people to read and think about stuff isn't misleading or wrong or not correct, it is just a headline, a starting point. And I think that if you think that people are so stupid that they are going to read the first number of one article then turn off their brain, then I think you really aren't giving the audience the benefit of the doubt. People read the rest of the article. And effectively combine what new info they may have learned with their understanding of the world and society. They think and discuss with their friends. Then they read another article a month later and it adds to what they know.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:23
|
|
|
stone cold posted:sorry gamergate broke ur brain Apathy atrophied it first.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:31
|
|
|
foolish_fool posted:"The media" aren't really a single entity so much as a wide collection of different people. I think it is possible or even likely that there are some columnists that are deliberately misleading (from any side). And if they continue to make deliberate errors then you should obviously not trust what they say and encourage people you know to seek more reliable sources. For the bulk of articles on this topic, the whole article and all future articles from the columnists e.g Guardian are just expansions of the misleading headline, they do not ever make any attempt to contextualise the statistics. You have to read the comments for any meaningful analysis. If you don't think the blanket coverage of gender pay gap as a headline without context directs the narrative, why do so many countries have an "Equal Pay Day" or equivalent where it is asserted that women are not paid for the rest of the year because of the pay gap? This day and the statements of organisers almost always go unchallenged by media outlets, reinforcing the 'truth' of the position in the mind of the public.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:38
|
|
|
Smorgasbord posted:For the bulk of articles on this topic, the whole article and all future articles from the columnists e.g Guardian are just expansions of the misleading headline, they do not ever make any attempt to contextualise the statistics. You have to read the comments for any meaningful analysis. If you don't think the blanket coverage of gender pay gap as a headline without context directs the narrative, why do so many countries have an "Equal Pay Day" or equivalent where it is asserted that women are not paid for the rest of the year because of the pay gap? This day and the statements of organisers almost always go unchallenged by media outlets, reinforcing the 'truth' of the position in the mind of the public. There is a loving pay gap! You said so yourself! What the gently caress do you actually want?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:43
|
|
|
Smorgasbord posted:For the bulk of articles on this topic, the whole article and all future articles from the columnists e.g Guardian are just expansions of the misleading headline, they do not ever make any attempt to contextualise the statistics. You have to read the comments for any meaningful analysis. If you don't think the blanket coverage of gender pay gap as a headline without context directs the narrative, why do so many countries have an "Equal Pay Day" or equivalent where it is asserted that women are not paid for the rest of the year because of the pay gap? This day and the statements of organisers almost always go unchallenged by media outlets, reinforcing the 'truth' of the position in the mind of the public. The date is actually chosen based on how far into the year a woman in that country would have to work to earn as much as a man. Meaningful data was given to you, and you chose to ignore it because ??? Reading internet comments for "meaningful analysis," really shows how big of a complete waste of space you are though, so thanks for sharing~
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:44
|
|
|
Somfin posted:There is a loving pay gap! You said so yourself! What the gently caress do you actually want? Smorgasbord posted:You have to read the comments for any meaningful analysis. somfin, we may have found the dumbest poster in all of sa
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:45
|
|
|
stone cold posted:somfin, we may have found the dumbest poster in all of sa Hold up I've got my Smorgasbord Translator up and running. "There's a pay gap but it's not as big as people say and the headlines are misleading" -> "I just don't want to hear about it anymore because it upsets me"
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 08:47
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Perhaps aggression is a learned thing rather than an immutable fact of biology. If only we didn't teach our children to hit eachother we would not be in a world where violence exists.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 13:06
|
|
|
Manchild King posted:No sports should be segregated. And yeah, many olympics organizers are a bunch of poo poo heels. This is a joke right? Are you prepared for 99% of competitive sports to be dominated by men and the teams to be composed 99% by men?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 13:09
|
|
|
Somfin posted:But don't you know that women are biologically worse at literally all sports!?!? Also it seems you've progressed (?) to a new issue now, but I still don't get why anyone was invested in the sports thing in the first place. "Dudes beat gals at arm wrestling", how is that helping either side?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 13:11
|
|
|
Sethex posted:If only we didn't teach our children to hit eachother we would not be in a world where violence exists. "learning" involves a shitload more phenomena than adults saying things to children and you're being massively disingenuous (or delusional) by implying the two are equivalent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 13:18
|
|
|
Dancer posted:"learning" involves a shitload more phenomena than adults saying things to children and you're being massively disingenuous (or delusional) by implying the two are equivalent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 13:28
|
|
|
new phone who dis posted:I truly wonder if you really think you've done anything to bring people around to your way of thinking in this thread. Do you think people look at your cheap and annpying pedantry and decide to join your movement because of it? Do you realize you're doing no favors for yourself, your allies, or anyone you claim to represent? You're part of an utterly toxic subgroup preaching only to itself. Do you think a gay, dead subforum has any impact on society at all? How delusional are you?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 15:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 08:19 |
|
|
Sethex posted:If only we didn't teach our children to hit eachother we would not be in a world where violence exists. I mean, uh, yeah? I suspect you mean that rather literally and personally but that's the broad idea.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 17:06
|
|
