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Basebf555 posted:Frank has a lot of traits that we would normally attribute to a vampire if we weren't distracted by all the insane special-effects and S&M gear. The whole thing where he starts off as a barely human, then regains more and more of his body by eating people is standard vampire/undead stuff. It is, however, a superlative vampire movie, not a mediocre one, and part of the fun is that vampirism is just a fraction of the horror it contains.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:29
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The second Hellraiser still had those vampire elements as well, so I don't really get the original point anyway. The stripped down "only the insane stuff" version of Hellraiser was the third one, which is fun but really stupid.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:41
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I feel like if you strip out the first five minutes or so and the last 15, the middle is a pretty bog-standard and uninteresting retread of every vampire story ever, with Frank as the Dracula analogue, Julia filling the Renfield archetype, and Kirsty as the Jonathan Harker who slowly discovers what's really going on. It's not poorly executed; in fact, it's quite well-executed. I just don't feel like it does anything interesting outside of the BDSM elements, and those feel more tacked on than anything else due to being shuffled off to the background for the bulk of the movie. I should probably reiterate: I don't hate it. I did like it enough to buy it when I saw it in the $5 bin at Wal-Mart, even. It's just a 5 or 6/10 whereas Hellraiser 2 is an 8 or 9. e: I don't think I said that Hellraiser 2 completely stripped out those elements, it just downplayed them because they weren't as interesting as the insane cosmic horror aspect that the bulk of H2 focused on. e2: Huh, apparently I did say that. I was tired, sue me. SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Mar 26, 2013 |
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Mar 26, 2013 19:42
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WickedIcon posted:I feel like if you strip out the first five minutes or so and the last 15, the middle is a pretty bog-standard and uninteresting retread of every vampire story ever, with Frank as the Dracula analogue, Julia filling the Renfield archetype, and Kirsty as the Jonathan Harker who slowly discovers what's really going on. It's not poorly executed; in fact, it's quite well-executed. I just don't feel like it does anything interesting outside of the BDSM elements, and those feel more tacked on than anything else due to being shuffled off to the background for the bulk of the movie. I think part of what makes it more interesting - and icky - than your average vampire story is how it ramps up the whole Renfield/Dracula thing into pretty explicit necrophilia territory, which is fairly beyond the pale even for the horror genre.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:45
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:I think part of what makes it more interesting - and icky - than your average vampire story is how it ramps up the whole Renfield/Dracula thing into pretty explicit necrophilia territory, which is fairly beyond the pale even for the horror genre. ...huh, I never actually caught on to that, honestly. Or maybe I did and it just never 100% clicked because I'm desensitized. The world may never know.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:48
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As much as I might not be a fan of the movies, I don't think anyone can argue that they're not ballsy as gently caress. In fact, I'd bet you almost anything that if a remake ever happened, it would be watered down as hell.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:49
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WickedIcon posted:...huh, I never actually caught on to that, honestly. Or maybe I did and it just never 100% clicked because I'm desensitized. The world may never know. Neither did the censors, according to Barker. Clive Barker in 1989 posted:There are things you can do on page that you absolutely can't do on screen, or if you can do it on screen you just can't get distributed. So I mean, I think they can push that stuff further on the page. But clearly, in the movies, I really do intend to push it as far as I possibly can, and I think in 'Hellraiser', we get away with a lot of stuff which I was kind of surprised by frankly. I was surprised that the MPAA was as accepting of some of that imagery, which is very seriously taken necrophiliac imagery, as it was. Maybe they didn't get it, I don't know.
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Mar 26, 2013 19:55
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Well, Return of the Living Dead 3 has similar imagery and is also a whole lot less subtle about it, and for all the butchery the MPAA did to that movie they didn't really give a poo poo about that part of it, so I'd imagine they just don't really care about corpse sex. 
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Mar 26, 2013 21:32
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WickedIcon posted:Well, Return of the Living Dead 3 has similar imagery and is also a whole lot less subtle about it, and for all the butchery the MPAA did to that movie they didn't really give a poo poo about that part of it, so I'd imagine they just don't really care about corpse sex. Well I mean as long as the corpse is consenting...
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Mar 26, 2013 21:51
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I think that The Hellbound Heart does some more interesting things with the dynamics of Frank/Kirsty but Hellraiser is still great, despite some dubious acting and scenes that don't work. It's just a testament to what Barker did get to work.
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Mar 26, 2013 22:35
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Does anyone know if the US Blu Ray for The Collection is region coded or if it comes with the DVD? I try googling it but alot comes up when you type The Collection Blu Ray Region Code.
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Mar 26, 2013 23:34
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I would like to add that The Anchor Bay Collection BR release of Hellraiser is great .It has an option of watching with a 'pop-up video' type thing that offers up some interesting tidbits. Definitely worth the $10 I paid for it. I would love to see a Hellraiser remake. I finally got around to watching Sinister a couple nights ago. While it did have it's flaws I thought it was a worthwhile, often creepy movie. I agree what many have said in that the music was outstanding, without it the movie would not be anywhere near as effective. Dr.Caligari fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 01:09
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adamj1982 posted:I would love to see a Hellraiser remake. No you wouldn't.  
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Mar 27, 2013 01:12
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Oh.. that is bad. What is it from, if I dare ask? 
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Mar 27, 2013 01:14
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The remake that eventually, and rightfully by the looks of it, got cancelled.
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Mar 27, 2013 01:15
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DrVenkman posted:I think that The Hellbound Heart does some more interesting things with the dynamics of Frank/Kirsty but Hellraiser is still great, despite some dubious acting and scenes that don't work. It's just a testament to what Barker did get to work. There are many things I prefer about the novella (it clears up Frank's motivations and the nature of the puzzle box considerably), but I think changing Kirsty from a friend with an unrequited crush to a member of the family was 100% the right choice. It may be more typical, but it makes her actions more sympathetic and understandable, makes the character of Frank even creepier ("Come to daddy" takes on some incredibly disturbing dimensions), and enhances the demented fairy tale feel of the story. Any fans of Hellraiser who haven't read The Hellbound Heart should really do so. It's a very quick read and surely a better use of your time then plowing through lovely Hellraiser sequels 3-9. Uncle Boogeyman fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 02:46
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I dunno, that Pinhead is not nearly as outright awful as you're making it out to be.
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Mar 27, 2013 04:01
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weekly font posted:I dunno, that Pinhead is not nearly as outright awful as you're making it out to be. I dunno, it's pretty bad, dude. It takes a lot to make the original Pinhead design look subtle by comparison.
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Mar 27, 2013 04:02
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Eh. I also didn't hate the look of New Freddy so maybe I'm just terrible.
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Mar 27, 2013 04:03
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weekly font posted:Eh. I also didn't hate the look of New Freddy so maybe I'm just terrible. The look of New Freddy was alright. The movie around him sucked balls, though.
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Mar 27, 2013 04:04
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IIRC those images weren't actually from the remake, just a makeup artist messing around and showing how he would do it. I don't really know how you can redo Hellraiser at this point since the imagery is passe now.
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Mar 27, 2013 05:09
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:The look of New Freddy was alright. The movie around him sucked balls, though. Yeah, exactly. Jackie Earle Haley nailed the role pretty drat well and I thought the new look was very good (much more "burn victim" than "pizza"). The remake completely wasted an opportunity to use current effects tech to create truly surreal, bizarre nightmare imagery. But, we already had this discussion a couple dozen pages ago...
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Mar 27, 2013 05:40
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I think making Freddy a confirmed child molester was the wrong call and it ended up destroying the entire thing for me. Too serious of a topic to be fodder for a frivolous movie.
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Mar 27, 2013 05:59
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flashy_mcflash posted:A little late to this but I really dug You're Next. It's a bit of a twist on the usual home invasion horror and has as many genuine laughs as scares (if not a little slanted towards comedy). It's a lot of fun and I liked all of the characters. Definitely a more mature work than A Horrible Way To Die (though, admittedly, I liked that too). I started to watch the trailer for Resolution and about halfway through I turned it off and went to see where I can watch it. That trailer looked really cool and creepy. Thanks for the recommendation time to see if it as good as you say!  Edit: Turns out searching for Resolution movie finds about 2 million hits for resolution/fidelity etc. I don't know where to find this movie now because Netflix doesn't seem to have it 
Meowbot fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 06:41
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Meowbot posted:I started to watch the trailer for Resolution and about halfway through I turned it off and went to see where I can watch it. That trailer looked really cool and creepy. Thanks for the recommendation time to see if it as good as you say! I posted this a couple of days ago, but here you go.
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Mar 27, 2013 13:45
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Dissapointed Owl posted:No you wouldn't. It's weird, I normally prefer updating the look of the villian in reboots, but I don't like that pinhead. I think there's something to the Symmetry and beauty of the original pinhead. It adds a sense of royalty to his position. Pinhead is actually kind of beautiful to look at in a way, he seems pristine. Making all the lacerations seem brutal and bloody takes away from that. This pinhead looks like a ferral psychopath, not a refined demi-god. Actually that pinhead could easily have been one of the monsters in the 2001 Thirteen Ghosts (excuse me Thir13en Ghosts. Heh, those stupid number substitutions from the late 90s.)
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Mar 27, 2013 13:45
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schwenz posted:It's weird, I normally prefer updating the look of the villian in reboots, but I don't like that pinhead. When someone earlier said that Hellraiser was essentially a vampire movie, they actually had a double point -- aside from what Frank is/does, Pinhead's design was meant to evoke Lugosi's Dracula and other, more stately types of monster-villains, in contrast to the hulking, semi-comical slashers then popular. I agree that part of what makes Pinhead "work" is the sort of deliberateness he exudes, a deliberateness communicated not only by his attitude and bearing but the meticulous way his body's been mutilated. (In the first movie, at least, this is also contrasted with Frank's general grossness and sloppier methods.) Back when those concept images were first posted here I made a crack about "Silent Hillraiser" but actually the Thir13en Ghosts comparison is more apt. I don't know how one should go about "rebooting" the Pinhead design, but that one definitely missed a large part of what makes the character compelling.
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Mar 27, 2013 14:00
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If I was in charge of a reboot. I'd seriously consider Vincent D'Onofrio for a new pinhead.
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Mar 27, 2013 14:13
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Worldwide Panther posted:I posted this a couple of days ago, but here you go. Thanks, but drat ... 7 dollars 
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Mar 27, 2013 14:55
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If they ever remake Hellraiser I think the only way I could be ok with it is if they made a new lead cenobite and left Pinhead out of it. I don't want to see Pinhead portrayed by anyone else except Douglas Bradley. I feel like so much effort has been put into Hellraiser to make them Pinhead movies when it should be more about Hell and the Lament configuration and the cenobites. Id be ok with an occasional cameo by pinhead though in a remade series as long as it was Douglas bradley.
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Mar 27, 2013 16:23
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Are there any other goons here reading the Hellraiser comics? It ignores everything after the second film and goes to crazytown pretty loving quickly. In a awesome way, at least to me anyways. It's Clive Barker's official canon and as close to a reboot (since it ignores most of what would eventually make the Hellraiser mythos).
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Mar 27, 2013 16:34
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schwenz posted:If I was in charge of a reboot. I'd seriously consider Vincent D'Onofrio for a new pinhead. If Christopher Lee wasn't as old as he is, I'd put him forth, especially since I think Bradley's performance as Pinhead was greatly informed by Lee's turn as Dracula.
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Mar 27, 2013 17:18
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WickedIcon posted:e: I don't think I said that Hellraiser 2 completely stripped out those elements, it just downplayed them because they weren't as interesting as the insane cosmic horror aspect that the bulk of H2 focused on. Part of what makes it great is it doesn't downplay it at first, the first half is done completely straight, even to the point of hinting at a potential third sequel in the same vein* and then the box opens and completely derails the film and the rest of the series. It's like they got halfway through and thought, fuckit, lets do something different. *I mean, with the stuff about Larry being in hell and wanting Kirsty to save him, obviously it doesn't go that way in the end but with Julia being damned despite not touching the box it's makes sense, and it would've been a suitably creepy final chapter if the series hadn't gone off the rails beautifully Also regarding the comics, the 80s ones have been re-released recently and are more in the vein of the original film than Barker's very fantasyish followup. I particularly like the Gaiman/McKeever one exploring Hellbound Heart's suggestion of a crossword which could summon the Cenobites. H.P. Shivcraft posted:When someone earlier said that Hellraiser was essentially a vampire movie, they actually had a double point -- aside from what Frank is/does, Pinhead's design was meant to evoke Lugosi's Dracula and other, more stately types of monster-villains, in contrast to the hulking, semi-comical slashers then popular. I agree that part of what makes Pinhead "work" is the sort of deliberateness he exudes, a deliberateness communicated not only by his attitude and bearing but the meticulous way his body's been mutilated. (In the first movie, at least, this is also contrasted with Frank's general grossness and sloppier methods.) This is a good point, and in terms of contemporary comparisons I think it's particularly interesting to compare him to Freddie: the deranged but implacable authority figure is a much more effectively nightmarish image than a serial killer. The S&M imagery is old hat now but there's definitely a lot of resonance left in the cenobites as they appear from Kirsty's perspective, as the representatives of an alien legal system which punish you for a transgression you don't understand and can't appeal against, and who will torture you as a matter of course. It's also interesting to compare to Channard in the original, who abandons the restraint that characterises Pinhead by attacking the uninvolved patients, but also by his obvious glee and the fact that he mutilates people directly rather than by ordering punishment from offstage.
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Mar 27, 2013 20:50
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schwenz posted:This pinhead looks like a ferral psychopath, not a refined demi-god. See, while I don't necessarily want to say you're wrong, I don't think that was what they were going for. The simple white robe makes me think they were reaching for a more monastic, austere Pinhead. Which would be still be pretty dumb if you were trying to do a straight adaptation of The Hellbound Heart given what the character represents, but it's a cool concept for a villain in its own right. (And isn't that far off from certain other Clive Barker characters I could think of.)
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Mar 27, 2013 21:16
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Yeah, I don't mind that design because the whole point of a "reboot" is that you're not doing the same thing the franchise did before. Zombie's Halloween got flak for changing Michael Myers' origin story, but that's why it's a reboot and not a remake.
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Mar 27, 2013 21:33
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:See, while I don't necessarily want to say you're wrong, I don't think that was what they were going for. The simple white robe makes me think they were reaching for a more monastic, austere Pinhead. I'm guessing the robe is just because they were focusing on makeup not costume. But who knows. It's funny to me that I want to protect the pinhead character, because I go traipsing through the comic book movie megathread now and then and chuckle at all the nerds sperging about how their childhood was raped over wonder-woman's costume design. Then I come in here and see a new pinhead and am all "UNACCEPTABLE!" e; there should be a lemongrab icon.
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Mar 27, 2013 22:19
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Watching grave encounters 2. I really like it so far about halfway through. It seems like as scream was to slashers it is to found footage. Edit: I also can't hate any film with thermal cam fart scares/laughs Double edit: upon completion if you thought the first was over top, oh buy this turns it up this 11. Wonderful little film Tolkien minority fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Mar 28, 2013 |
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Mar 28, 2013 03:03
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Meowbot posted:Thanks, but drat ... 7 dollars Initially, I thought the same thing when I followed the link. But between the kudos that the goons have bestowed upon the film and also realizing that it's about the cost of a local matinee (with 3 days of viewing), I think I'm going to pull the trigger.
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Mar 28, 2013 03:16
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So has everyone heard about Full Moon's amazing and completely original idea, GrindhouseFlix, a subscription-based service for watching streaming horror films? With a catalog boasting twenty (20) films, Netflix must be horror-fied. 
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Mar 28, 2013 03:56
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They even have a helpful, all-on-one-page summary of everything you'd want to pay them 4.99 a month to see!
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Mar 28, 2013 12:00
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