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i agree, loosely coupled interfaces are good things.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:10
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oh and how!! thinks his service is restful too 
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Jan 22, 2013 20:14
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rotor posted:i agree, loosely coupled interfaces are good things. this is why I tell people to write code that is easy to throw away, rather than making it extensible. thing is big rewrites are ok too, but you have to actually maintain the old code during the time, as well as test and use the new code too. not as easy as it sounds. you will end up maintaining two systems, but you can migrate clients across eventually. it can be worth the extra time, but that's a tradeoff innit
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Jan 22, 2013 20:17
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the single bigass rewrite will never be as smooth or as efficient as rewriting chunks of it at a time.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:19
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rotor posted:the single bigass rewrite will never be as smooth or as efficient as rewriting chunks of it at a time. most of the time, yeah. thing is there was some work that talked about defects and rewrites that mononcqc wrote up here http://mononcqc.tumblr.com/post/31767374324/an-analysis-of-errors-in-a-reuse-oriented-development-en it's good eh 'Reuse via extensive modification does not provide the reduction in error density that the other modes of reuse yield, and it also results in errors that typically were more difficult to isolate and correct than the errors in newly developed code. In terms of the rework due to the errors in these components, it appears that this mode of development is more costly than new development. However, extensive modification may offer savings in development effort that outweigh the increased cost of rework.'
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Jan 22, 2013 20:30
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Cocoa Crispies posted:that's why you see more systems like twitter moving to a service oriented architecture, because then you can decouple things like tweet storage and follow graphs and rewrite them as long as they fulfill their obligations see also that yegge email that got leaked, where he went 'amazon got service architecture by force, google is not getting it'. in a sort of application of conways law, you have to get your teams talking to each other if you want to get their code talking to each other.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:31
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tef posted:see also that yegge email that got leaked, where he went 'amazon got service architecture by force, google is not getting it'. in a sort of application of conways law, you have to get your teams talking to each other if you want to get their code talking to each other. twan't an e-mail, it was a google+ post that he posted externally instead of internally because google+ is such a simple social nets to use
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Jan 22, 2013 20:35
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rotor posted:the single bigass rewrite will never be as smooth or as efficient as rewriting chunks of it at a time. irl no one has the time or money to do a bigass rewrite anyways
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Jan 22, 2013 20:36
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Cocoa Crispies posted:that's why you see more systems like twitter moving to a service oriented architecture, because then you can decouple things like tweet storage and follow graphs and rewrite them as long as they fulfill their obligations this is why erlang owns; even your tiny rear end program is built as a collection of services. the erlang vm is essentially a service host and otp is a service framework
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Jan 22, 2013 20:38
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otp is good for you
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Jan 22, 2013 20:40
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tef posted:oh and how!! thinks his service is restful too REST just means "uses http", right?
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Jan 22, 2013 20:45
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Cocoa Crispies posted:that's why you see more systems like twitter moving to a service oriented architecture, because then you can decouple things like tweet storage and follow graphs and rewrite them as long as they fulfill their obligations i still dont get what the difference between OOP, or even DO or RPC and SOA is. when does it stop becoming a method or procedure and become a Service.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:45
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soa is oop one level higher
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Jan 22, 2013 20:45
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tef posted:so yeah, spolksy says they are uniformly bad, citing a rewritten product that languished on the next version, that was then replaced by a rewritten product. Spolsky's argument summed up is basically "I don't understand why there would be any benefit, therefore there is no benefit". I worked for a guy a few months ago who was building an advertising network. It was a very simple application. The spec was as follows: code:I told him any real developer could implement the spec in one week using modern engineering techniques. But in his mind, it took him 2 years to build, therefore its a 2 year job, and there was no way I could convince him that there could be a better way.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:47
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tef posted:see also that yegge email that got leaked, where he went 'amazon got service architecture by force, google is not getting it'. in a sort of application of conways law, you have to get your teams talking to each other if you want to get their code talking to each other.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:49
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JawnV6 posted:soa is oop one level higher this is an accurate one-sentence summary.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:55
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tef posted:http://mononcqc.tumblr.com/post/31767374324/an-analysis-of-errors-in-a-reuse-oriented-development-en it's good eh it's a neat article but i have a hard time caring about stats gleaned from FORTRAN development at NASA.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:58
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how!! posted:I told him any real developer could implement the spec in one week using modern engineering techniques. But in his mind, it took him 2 years to build, therefore its a 2 year job, and there was no way I could convince him that there could be a better way. heee
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Jan 22, 2013 20:58
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i mean, i'm sure that's cool and everything but this is like linking to a ramjet design and telling me how to make a better beef carpaccio.
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Jan 22, 2013 20:59
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how!! posted:Spolsky's argument summed up is basically "I don't understand why there would be any benefit, therefore there is no benefit".
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Jan 22, 2013 21:00
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Jerry SanDisky posted:REST just means "uses http", right? yes
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Jan 22, 2013 21:02
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Shaggar posted:yes
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Jan 22, 2013 21:09
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Jerry SanDisky posted:REST just means "uses http", right? uses http, with the emphasis on "use" instead of "is tunneled through"
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Jan 22, 2013 21:09
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the emphasis is entirely optional, though (as with all things rest related)
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Jan 22, 2013 21:11
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guys im trying to get this eclipse set up, please keep it down over there
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Jan 22, 2013 21:11
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not that im bitching, it's just Big.
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Jan 22, 2013 21:11
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rotor posted:i mean, i'm sure that's cool and everything but this is like linking to a ramjet design and telling me how to make a better beef carpaccio. sure, go try that quality while competing against web devs making GBS threads reams of php daily
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Jan 22, 2013 21:11
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Jonny 290 posted:guys im trying to get this eclipse set up, please keep it down over there eclipse is kewl and owns.
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Jan 22, 2013 21:12
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JawnV6 posted:i remember some NASA study that came out about the stupidly high code quality metrics they use for one-off things that cost billions of dollars and Literally Can't Fail, the comments on it were all beardstroking this is how it SHOULD BE DONE not only were they in an expensive safety environment, they also had weight constraints so "do it lots and see if they agree" isn't an option but yeah different software is different and it turns out lockheed martin has different requirements than twitter and stack homeworkflow
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Jan 22, 2013 21:14
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Gazpacho posted:no you idiot his argument is that companies have to keep releasing stuff that objectively works to stay in business, why are you so determined not to get this I'm going to tell you a true story. When I was in middle school, I was on the track team. One day during a track meet, I was running the 400 meter dash. I made the mistake of not making sure my shoes were tied tightly before the race started. After rounding the first turn, I looked down and noticed my shoe was untied. I couldn't just stop and tie my shoe, because I'm running a race for gods sake. After the third turn, my shoe had almost come completely off because the laces flinging around had made the shoe so loose. When I crossed the finish line I was practically limping because I couldn't run normally or else my shoe would come completely off. I was too afraid to stop and do what needed to be done. If you have a project full of technical debt, its like running a race with a shoe coming half off your foot. Yeah stopping to tie the show (refactoring code) will slow you down, but not as much as not stopping. A lot of companies act like they're in a sprint, but many times they are not. Most companies are running a distance race, where a week or a month doesn't matter as much as they fear it will.
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Jan 22, 2013 21:25
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how!! posted:I'm going to tell you a true story. When I was in middle school, I was on the track team. One day during a track meet, I was running the 400 meter dash. I made the mistake of not making sure my shoes were tied tightly before the race started. After rounding the first turn, I looked down and noticed my shoe was untied. I couldn't just stop and tie my shoe, because I'm running a race for gods sake. After the third turn, my shoe had almost come completely off because the laces flinging around had made the shoe so loose. When I crossed the finish line I was practically limping because I couldn't run normally or else my shoe would come completely off. I was too afraid to stop and do what needed to be done. that's why you tie your goddamn shoes right
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Jan 22, 2013 21:27
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how!! posted:I'm going to tell you a true story. When I was in middle school, I was on the track team. One day during a track meet, I was running the 400 meter dash. I made the mistake of not making sure my shoes were tied tightly before the race started. After rounding the first turn, I looked down and noticed my shoe was untied. I couldn't just stop and tie my shoe, because I'm running a race for gods sake. After the third turn, my shoe had almost come completely off because the laces flinging around had made the shoe so loose. When I crossed the finish line I was practically limping because I couldn't run normally or else my shoe would come completely off. I was too afraid to stop and do what needed to be done. what a cool story.
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Jan 22, 2013 21:29
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how!! posted:I'm going to tell you a true story. When I was in middle school, I was on the track team. One day during a track meet, I was running the 400 meter dash. I made the mistake of not making sure my shoes were tied tightly before the race started. After rounding the first turn, I looked down and noticed my shoe was untied. I couldn't just stop and tie my shoe, because I'm running a race for gods sake. After the third turn, my shoe had almost come completely off because the laces flinging around had made the shoe so loose. When I crossed the finish line I was practically limping because I couldn't run normally or else my shoe would come completely off. I was too afraid to stop and do what needed to be done. lol
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Jan 22, 2013 21:29
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Shaggar posted:eclipse is kewl and owns. i havent even started in on java but i installed EPIC and its fuckin' amazing, coming from a "notepad++ open and perldoc in browser" environment
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Jan 22, 2013 21:29
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cool. so first thing first, go to Window -> Prefernces -> java (or perl I guess maybe) -> Content Assist. Under Auto Activation, set the Auto Activation delay from 200 to 20 or 0.
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Jan 22, 2013 21:33
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Jan 22, 2013 21:35
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Inter-team communication at Amazon: I'm on pager duty one time and get a high-severity ticket from a warehouse that they're sending way too many packages to a third-party warehouse I've never heard of and it might cancel its operating contract. I do initial investigation and find out that the interface between our code and another team's code for a recently added feature wasn't clearly negotiated and we're sending the wrong data over it. Our side was written by a (usually competent) dev who had just left the team, leaving a tangle of code that sorta does a little of one thing and then a little of another with no modularity. I go to the other team's manager and tell him that temporarily disabling their side of the feature while I work on the fix will mitigate the issue in the field. He tells me to go gently caress myself (i.e. drop everything and race against the clock to get a fix out before the contract is cancelled). Inter-team communication at Amazon.
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Jan 22, 2013 21:37
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well he successfully communicated that it was your problem
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Jan 22, 2013 21:39
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Gazpacho posted:Inter-team communication at Amazon: I'm on pager duty one time and get a high-severity ticket from a warehouse that they're sending way too many packages to a third-party warehouse I've never heard of and it might cancel its operating contract. I do initial investigation and find out that the interface between our code and another team's code for a recently added feature wasn't clearly negotiated and we're sending the wrong data over it. Our side was written by a (usually competent) dev who had just left the team, leaving a tangle of code that sorta does a little of one thing and then a little of another with no modularity. I go to the other team's manager and tell him that temporarily disabling their side of the feature while I work on the fix will mitigate the issue in the field. He tells me to go gently caress myself (i.e. drop everything and race against the clock to get a fix out before the contract is cancelled). Inter-team communication at Amazon. welcome to pager duty
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Jan 22, 2013 21:41
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how!! posted:I'm going to tell you a true story. When I was in middle school, I was on the track team. One day during a track meet, I was running the 400 meter dash. I made the mistake of not making sure my shoes were tied tightly before the race started. After rounding the first turn, I looked down and noticed my shoe was untied. I couldn't just stop and tie my shoe, because I'm running a race for gods sake. After the third turn, my shoe had almost come completely off because the laces flinging around had made the shoe so loose. When I crossed the finish line I was practically limping because I couldn't run normally or else my shoe would come completely off. I was too afraid to stop and do what needed to be done. when I was on the track team the shoes they gave me were inefficient and badly designed so I skipped the meet and built a better shoe
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Jan 22, 2013 21:41
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