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Endorph posted:it owns how weird everyone's arguments become when an anime dude has girls into him. rean is provably insanely popular with women in real life. like actual women who breathe and walk among you and have dreams love rean. this is fact. rean is provably the kind of guy women would be into. obviously being an anime character instead of a real person changes perception but like. still. The "problem" is that this poster doesn't like relationship value writing dynamics and pitched a kind of half-assed alternative off the cuff. No one is taking the word "problem" to mean we need sweeping policy changes to combat the plague of boring anime dudes.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:38
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i regret making that second post cause honestly it's still just funny to me to make a negative value judgment about tits daring to be a 2d video game in 2004. didn't know there are still people who view 2d graphics that way
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Jan 8, 2023 16:41
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i mean tbh i also dont see the trails of cold steel cast really having that going on. most of the party have at least a couple relationships inside the party and outside of it. the fact that some characters dont get a ton of that is mostly down to how many party members there are, not really relatively slight dating/harem aspects. the only real issue with that stuff is the game doesn't really react to your choices and cs4 specifically doesn't have an option to do some of the endgame bond events without them being romantic. and like once or twice a lady gets like one line where she implies some interest in rean and it goes literally nowhere due to the mechanics/her not being an actual fulltime party member you could do the bond events for. these are all problems that could be solved by like 10 minutes of rewrites and limiting rean's options a bit. iunno what having the other characters start shacking up would solve.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:42
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mostly the idea reminds me of tales of graces f randomly deciding to shack up hubert and pascal in the future arc despite them literally never once having had a single romantic interaction or expressed interest in each other before
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Jan 8, 2023 16:45
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the only woke number of lady party members in a game is 4. above 4 and the game is now a harem. below 4 and then someone does the "did you know no JRPG ever made has more than 3 women in the party in the history of gaming" thing
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Jan 8, 2023 16:46
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or that one time someone got fixated on how atelier lulua needed to confirm who rorona's husband was. that they had a moral imperative to confirm that rorona had had a heterosexual marriage with a man instead of using her alchemy to make an alchemy baby in the setting where you can make alchemy babies
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Jan 8, 2023 16:47
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The Colonel posted:or that one time someone got fixated on how atelier lulua needed to confirm who rorona's husband was. that they had a moral imperative to confirm that rorona had had a heterosexual marriage with a man instead of using her alchemy to make an alchemy baby in the setting where you can make alchemy babies they did not accept my suggestion of cordelia being the child's biological parent for some reason
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Jan 8, 2023 16:49
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The Colonel posted:mostly the idea reminds me of tales of graces f randomly deciding to shack up hubert and pascal in the future arc despite them literally never once having had a single romantic interaction or expressed interest in each other before Idk, even without the Future stuff it kinda felt like Hubert had a thing for her in the main story, at least in some skits but it’s been a hot minute.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:50
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Yeah I can see that being a point for Cold Steel specifically but I can also see the shades that are there in Cold Steel being a sticking point and I really get the point about player characters with romanceable parties in general. Pillars of Eternity did this best - you can get two of the romanceable party members in a relationship and they develop their own couple quirks and nicknames and stuff, and it's much cuter than any of the Captain endings, and it's gay too. On the other end Zelos and Sheena have the only real party dynamic in Symphonia that isn't approval values and it sucks.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:51
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tbf i do not think tales of symphonia would have a great party dynamic with or without approval values. what do regal and sheena talk about. does anyone know.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:52
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The Colonel posted:or that one time someone got fixated on how atelier lulua needed to confirm who rorona's husband was. that they had a moral imperative to confirm that rorona had had a heterosexual marriage with a man instead of using her alchemy to make an alchemy baby in the setting where you can make alchemy babies quote:Rorona ending up in an adult relationship with a man and having a kid with them would buck that trend, essentially allowing Rorona to grow up instead of being kept as a pure child-waifu for the player some peoples brains get really broken lol
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Jan 8, 2023 16:57
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yeah idk if anything symphonia is one of the most minor relationship systems. it barely matters for 95% of the game. it just has very boring writing i dont think cold steel is as negative of an example of any this as say, recent persona at all and don't really get why it's seen a specific breaking point because cold steel doesn't really like. totally lock down character arcs to hanging out with the cast. you could say persona is less odd about it because it has romantic and non-romantic splits but trails' systems are so simple that yeah it's gonna assume whoever you pick for the explicitly romantic moments is the character you want to have a romantic dynamic with. it's all mostly an issue of the series picking up relationship mechanics from other games way back in trails from zero and never really figuring out what it wants to do with them or how it can feasibly work them in across a full saga. but it was never something people complained about so harshly with the crossbell games, i think with cold steel people confused having a cast that's just a bit too big in a story struggling with pretty nasty pacing issues with... romantic writing problems? when mostly they've just made the system too forward-facing in a way that doesn't ultimately add that much but also doesn't actually take away that much either, it's basically the same as it ever was you can just directly see the numbers now. crossbell hid those
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Jan 8, 2023 16:58
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theres this specific mindset where someone seems extremely fixated on whether or not some random character dynamic might, potentially, appeal to weirdos in some roundabout way, and like, this is maybe mean to say, but when i see it it's like "thou doth protest too much"
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Jan 8, 2023 16:59
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Mad Wack posted:i've put 7 hours into sky so far and it is insanely boring and generic for anyone who has every played another jrpg or watched anime before It's p unlikely the proceeding 40 hours will change your mind.
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Jan 8, 2023 16:59
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idk I just don't like it when the viewpoint character feels too central for no good reason.
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Jan 8, 2023 17:00
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The Colonel posted:mostly the idea reminds me of tales of graces f randomly deciding to shack up hubert and pascal in the future arc despite them literally never once having had a single romantic interaction or expressed interest in each other before Agreed. they should have kept it as pascal poking at a self conscious nerd this did unlock the memory that Hubert is super into power rangers tho. Where is the remake bamco. Give me a tale of two Richards in 4K or w/e
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Jan 8, 2023 17:01
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Feels Villeneuve posted:The Harem Problem We need to talk about Harem
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Jan 8, 2023 17:01
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Caphi posted:idk I just don't like it when the viewpoint character feels too central for no good reason. that's fair but trails as an entire series literally always has had one guy who exists to be central for a very specific and occasionally awkward plot reason. joshua wasn't the protagonist but he still basically did that in how he was written. the events of zero ultimately end up being way more personally heavy for tio and kea but lloyd is still the important viewpoint guy cause they decided every saga has to have that guy
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Jan 8, 2023 17:01
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The Colonel posted:i regret making that second post cause honestly it's still just funny to me to make a negative value judgment about tits daring to be a 2d video game in 2004. didn't know there are still people who view 2d graphics that way There are some people who absolutely refuse to watch a black and white movie, all kind of crazies out there.
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Jan 8, 2023 17:03
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Caphi posted:idk I just don't like it when the viewpoint character feels too central for no good reason. thats fair but thats a core writing issue. like tales of vesperia isnt really a harem thing. rita gets literally nothing with yuri, patty's a joke, estelle gets like two scenes that kinda imply it, and judith's flirting with him is more banter than anything. but yuri still gets really overcentralized in the writing. these are related problems but they arent literally the same problem and i feel like people get that mixed up some and honestly rean gets a bit overcentralized sometimes especially in cs4 but as far as these things go cold steel is way less guilty of it than some other JRPGs.
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Jan 8, 2023 17:06
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Feels Villeneuve posted:theres this specific mindset where someone seems extremely fixated on whether or not some random character dynamic might, potentially, appeal to weirdos in some roundabout way, and like, this is maybe mean to say, but when i see it it's like "thou doth protest too much"
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Jan 8, 2023 17:06
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the converse of that is people assuming some extremely minor unexpected character dynamic or subversion of expectations is explicitly intended to pwn creeps, somehow
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Jan 8, 2023 17:07
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Feels Villeneuve posted:the converse of that is people assuming some extremely minor unexpected character dynamic or subversion of expectations is explicitly intended to pwn creeps, somehow
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Jan 8, 2023 17:10
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Romance mechanics exist so I can either completely ignore them or become obsessed with creating the ultimate child soldier. Sometimes its both, Persona 5. Sword and Fairy 7 is currently writing a romance I find simultaneously impossibly stupidly cliche on its face but one I have 100% faith its target audience loved. Hoping (but wont get) the real standard here and we introduce a bad boy npc to make this love line a little more parabolic. Edit: More games need romances where party members fall for and woo NPCs. FFVIII once again delivering on all fronts. Barudak fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 17:11
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Barudak posted:Romance mechanics exist so I can either completely ignore them or become obsessed with creating the ultimate child soldier. this is also the plot to Metal Gear Solid 3
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Jan 8, 2023 17:15
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i'd always heard people get mad about it turning out the patriots were your goofy mgs3 crew and then i played mgs3 and lolled when towards the end of the game para-medic randomly went on a long rant about how cool eugenics are and how much she wants to harvest snake's genes while snake just stayed awkwardly silent
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Jan 8, 2023 17:16
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i think the "eva, i need you" scene is the hardest i've laughed at a joke in a game
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Jan 8, 2023 17:17
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I like how .hack//imoq just didn't bother with romance outside of 1 dungeon's gimmick and instead focused on developing everyone's offline lives when not dealing with the mmorpg
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Jan 8, 2023 17:35
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Sakurazuka posted:There are some people who absolutely refuse to watch a black and white movie, all kind of crazies out there. but... but how will they watch the seventh victim then 
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Jan 8, 2023 17:40
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The Colonel posted:i regret making that second post cause honestly it's still just funny to me to make a negative value judgment about tits daring to be a 2d video game in 2004. didn't know there are still people who view 2d graphics that way Funniest part imo: trails in the sky is 3d! It’s not a 2d game! It’s just old!
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Jan 8, 2023 17:46
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Endorph posted:thats fair but thats a core writing issue. like tales of vesperia isnt really a harem thing. rita gets literally nothing with yuri, patty's a joke, estelle gets like two scenes that kinda imply it, and judith's flirting with him is more banter than anything. but yuri still gets really overcentralized in the writing. Ehhh...If you feel the writing is overly centralizing on the protagonist already, I think setting it up so you can bend the arc of characters' relationships by choice isn't being mistakenly mixed up by people, they kind of work hand in hand to accommodate that. They're not the exact same problem but one can make the other worse and vice-versa. TBF, I think Trails handles is way better than it's contemporaries in this department. Lord knows the Character writing in Trails isn't always the best but I could tell you how every single character in the game felt about one even passed surface connections. Something I have a hard time doing for like...P4 or P5's cast.
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Jan 8, 2023 18:00
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Didn't Cold Steel have Jusis and Millium be especially close? And there was like an art club NPC who was really into Gaius or something?
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Jan 8, 2023 18:25
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Srice posted:It's p unlikely the proceeding 40 hours will change your mind. that is good to know, will set this aside for chained echoes and see if that is more my speed
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Jan 8, 2023 20:05
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Barudak posted:Edit: More games need romances where party members fall for and woo NPCs. FFVIII once again delivering on all fronts.
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Jan 8, 2023 20:16
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Hi. I like Rean, and am a man. He's sweet and funny.
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Jan 8, 2023 20:45
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Atelier Iris 2 had a party member who ended up in a relationship with an npc. Too bad he was the most annoying party member and he stays in the party when he could be spending time with his new wife and not annoying the hell out of me.
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Jan 8, 2023 21:08
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The harem iceberg explained
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Jan 8, 2023 21:11
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Caphi posted:idk I just don't like it when the viewpoint character feels too central for no good reason. This is why CS2 is the worst Trails but the other Cold Steels are pretty ok.
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Jan 8, 2023 21:32
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Harvest Moon Friends of Mineral Town had every love interest paired with another love interest and they would eventually get together and marry each other. And this apparently made players so anxious, that no Harvest Moon (or AFAIK Harvest Moon clone) has ever attempted such a mechanic ever again. Not that I want more video games to have the Naruto/Harry Potter ending where every named character hetereosexually hooks up, but I always think of that in these series (mostly my gacha trash) where every character has to be romantically "free" to the player mycot fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 21:34
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Would someone mind mentioning how exactly Trails is awkward about the romance stuff? I've never played any of the games and I work better with a specific example of things. I am also completely flummoxed on good romance stuff in games that's not just a part of the story like I dunno, Xenoblade 1 or something
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Jan 8, 2023 21:43
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