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Beyond all the nazi stuff, another weak point of this story is that it actually is turning out to be yet another vehicle for a hero vs hero event, and one of the biggest weaknesses of those that was present in Civil War II as well was that the various reasons for the sides that heroes take frequently feel contrived and unbelievable. Like someone else said, this is largely because it all happens so suddenly. Heroes fighting each other is played out, isn't inspiring in the least, and actually just sucks and I wish Marvel would stop dipping into that well even more than I wish they'd stop doing so many events.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:48
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Deadpool's motivations are being explored in Duggan's Deadpool book and it dovetails pretty nicely into everything Duggan's done for the past several years with Deadpool and his relationship with Steve Rogers. Elsewhere in the event he's just an rear end in a top hat who likes to make jokes and kill people mostly. Thor is allied with the Nazis because he's sad and feels Unworthy and if Steve is Worthy then I guess he should be a guy he follows even if Thor thinks everything they're doing is terrible but like, his Dad hasn't called out Cap for being a Nazi so even though Thor feels real bad about doing Nazi stuff he's just going to keep doing it until his Dad gives him a sign. Everyone else is being mind controlled either by Nazi demons or powered up Nazi hypnotists or possibly something with Cosmic Cube shards, who knows. Nick Spencer is real good at adding so many game-changing McGuffins to any given story that it's entirely possible we'll find out that Baron Zemo is actually a shapeshifting Nick Fury undercover and Mockingbird is a Mockingbird from Earth-3 and Black Widow is a time traveler and is the daughter of the Red Skull thanks to the Infinity Gauntlet because why not Also Inhumans are really mutants and mutants are really Inhumans! THINK OF THE IMPLICATIONS.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:50
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Skwirl posted:I'm not going to say you shouldn't have done that, definitely don't spend money on things you don't want to, but that's not going to accomplish poo poo. It accomplished Marvel losing money which in the end is what they care about most.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:50
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Deadpool is the worst of them all because he should be aware of everything with his 4th wall perception, and he still goes along with it. He's the Ultimate Hitler.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:51
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Diet Poison posted:I haven't read any of this story other than the Doctor Strange tie-ins but it's pretty drat objectionable that supposedly Thor and Deadpool are on Hydra-cap's side, somehow? edit: never mind E&C said everything I was going to
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Jun 30, 2017 18:51
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Aphrodite posted:Deadpool is the worst of them all because he should be aware of everything with his 4th wall perception, and he still goes along with it. Mercifully, Duggan retconned that away in a satisfying and horrific manner.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:16
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I've not read much of Secret Empire, but have followed much of the discussion in BSS. Based on the discussion, I get the impression that it's a bit like Identity Crisis?
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Jun 30, 2017 19:23
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To this day I'm sad I couldn't enjoy the chocolate one because it was associated with a NazHEILHYDRA.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:26
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Donde Esta posted:Conversely, since you seem fairly reasonable, do you think the alt-right has valid claim to appropriate Hydra Cap as their own? I don't know, maybe? I don't think Spencer is necessarily trying to write to that crowd, but enough of the self-justification he's writing for Cap and enough of the arguments defending the book echos so much of the Alt-right that I'm not surprised they have done so. I mean, they also appropriated a stoner frog just because he was a meme, so they aren't exactly discerning in their symbols. The problem is that the writing of the book is so wishy-washy that there really isn't anything to make an Alt-right member think "wait, am I a bad for identifying with evil Cap?" That, in many people's humble opinions, is bad writing. As Archyduke says, the concept could be done well, it just hasn't been in this series.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:29
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How come nobody's talking about the real character-defining stuff happening this week? Amadeus Cho is a confirmed Methodists.
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Jun 30, 2017 20:21
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El Tortuga posted:How come nobody's talking about the real character-defining stuff happening this week? That was really strange, yeah.
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Jun 30, 2017 20:36
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Marvel now: Hydra are NOT nazis Marvel 6 months ago:  loving bee-sting-allergic-reaction looking Red Skull though.
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Jun 30, 2017 20:40
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Scyther posted:Marvel now: Hydra are NOT nazis He got into a fight with Swarm.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:00
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These are the books returning to their original numbers for Legacy: Amazing Spider-Man #789 Avengers #672 Black Panther #166 Cable #150 Captain Marvel #125 Daredevil #595 Deadpool #287 Doctor Strange #381 Generation X #85 Guardians of the Galaxy #146 Incredible Hulk #709 Invincible Iron Man #593 Iron Fist #73 Luke Cage #166 Mighty Thor #700 Moon Knight #188 Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #297 Punisher #218 She-Hulk #159 Spider-Man #234 Other titles beginning or continuing in Legacy: All New Wolverine #25 Amazing Spider-Man Renew Your Vows #13 (With an 8 year time skip) America #8 Astonishing X-Men #7 Ben Reilly: The Scarlet Spider #10 Black Bolt #8 Champions #13 Defenders #6 Falcon #1 Hawkeye #13 Iceman #6 Jean Grey #8 Jessica Jones #13 Marvel Two-In-One #1 Monsters Unleashed #7 Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur #25 Ms. Marvel #25 Old Man Logan #31 Royals #9 Secret Warriors #8 Spider-Gwen #25 Spider-Man/Deadpool #23 Spirits of Vengeance #1 Thanos #13 Unbeatable Squirrel Girl #27 Unbelievable Gwenpool #21 U.S.Avengers #11 Uncanny Avengers #28 Venom #155 Weapon X #12 X-Men Blue #13 X-Men Gold #13 And one unannounced title. Probably spinning out of whatever happens with Captain America.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:15
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I haven't paid close attention to what's going on with the Legacy stuff but as far as I can tell it isn't going to touch Ms. Marvel or most of the new X-Men books they've got started, which is fine with me since that's all I read from Marvel.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:17
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Scyther posted:Marvel now: Hydra are NOT nazis What the hell is this from? Red Skull needs his EpiPen.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:18
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rantmo posted:That was really strange, yeah. Apparently Methodists are a huge denomination in South Korea.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:34
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X-O posted:These are the books returning to their original numbers for Legacy: Is that for good? Or are they just returning to original number for however long the Legacy event is?
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Jun 30, 2017 22:43
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Dunbar posted:I haven't paid close attention to what's going on with the Legacy stuff but as far as I can tell it isn't going to touch Ms. Marvel or most of the new X-Men books they've got started, which is fine with me since that's all I read from Marvel. Jean is one of the Legacy people, and she's in like half the comics. I assume it will only touch her solo one though.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:44
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pubic works project posted:Is that for good? Or are they just returning to original number for however long the Legacy event is? Hopefully for good and they keep the long running number and have in a big banner at the top when a new arc begins for easy jumping on points.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:46
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El Tortuga posted:What the hell is this from? Red Skull needs his EpiPen. http://marvel.com/comics/issue/62043/gwenpool_holiday_special_merry_mix-up_2016_1 pubic works project posted:Is that for good? Or are they just returning to original number for however long the Legacy event is? It's for however long it takes for them to lose their patience and go "Welp, this didn't instantly triple all of our sales, time to cancel-relaunch everything and another universe-changing crossover event, while blaming readers"
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Jun 30, 2017 22:49
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Out of all that the thing I first took to was the fact that Black Bolt is at least getting a second arc. Here's an image that includes all the storyline names.  pubic works project posted:Is that for good? Or are they just returning to original number for however long the Legacy event is? Until the book is cancelled I'd imagine.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:50
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Omg they are bringing back the "Make Mine Marvel!" Slogan. This is Marvel:Rebirth.
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Jun 30, 2017 22:57
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pubic works project posted:s that for good? Or are they just returning to original number for however long the Legacy event is? Aphrodite posted:Jean is one of the Legacy people, and she's in like half the comics. I assume it will only touch her solo one though.
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Jun 30, 2017 23:22
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X-O posted:Out of all that the thing I first took to was the fact that Black Bolt is at least getting a second arc. Here's an image that includes all the storyline names. Apparently there's a missing spot where there are 52 comics listed and press releases talking about 53 today. I'm guessing a Cap announcement is held back for Secret Empire.
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Jun 30, 2017 23:49
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I just want a big crossover event where the heroes team-up to fight a big bad guy and everyone gets to act in-character rather than looking at them through some new lense. That's happened so much over the past decade since House of M. I just want a team-up where Cap gets to show why he's Cap and Thor why he/she is Thor and Spidey why he's Spidey. The last time I can even remember that happening was Infinity which I really disliked because it was depressing, it was the middle part in a story (which it wound up being almost an exact clone off) and it was obvious Fraction really didn't want to write either it or a Thanos story in general. I just want bright, clear art showing why heroes are heroes without anyone trying to tell me some "everything's shades of grey" fable Marvel's been on for ages.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:54
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*Hickman
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Jul 1, 2017 01:56
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I swear to God I make that mistake every time. I think I might have brain damage.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:58
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Anyone wanna guess how many of the continuing books even have new creative teams? Gonna guess it's not many. Even calling this a "relaunch" seems like it's a stretch.
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Jul 1, 2017 01:59
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Teenage Fansub posted:I'm guessing a Cap announcement is held back for Secret Empire. Apparently that's what's happening, yeah. I'd assume it'd be a pretty big spoiler for how Secret Empire ends.
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Jul 1, 2017 02:01
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X-O posted:And one unannounced title. Probably spinning out of whatever happens with Captain America. If you look at extended forecast for solicits Captain America Steve Rogers stops at #19 and Captain America Sam Wilson stops with #24. In August there's just Captain America #25. My guess is that's when Steve takes over the only Captain America title and Sam goes to The Falcon #1. Moon Knight #188 1980-1984, Moon Knight Vol 1, 38 issues 1985, Moon Knight Fist of Khonshu, 6 issues 1989-1994, Marc Spector Moon Knight, 60 issues 2006-2009, Moon Knight Vol 3, 30 issues 2009-2010, Vengeance of Moon Knight, 10 issues 2011-2012, Moon Knight Vol 4, 12 issues 2014-2015, Moon Knight Vol 5, 17 issues 2016-2017, Moon Knight Vol 6, 14 issues 38 + 6 + 60 + 30 + 10 + 12 + 17 + 14 = 187. Stop arguing about loving NAZIS and start doing some math. Some of those numbers look wrong. Yes, Doctor Strange #381, I'm talking about you.
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Jul 1, 2017 02:15
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He has 212 from stuff actually called Dr. Strange. Another 100 or so from limited stuff, Marvel Premiere and Strange Tales.
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Jul 1, 2017 02:31
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Pretty sure they're just counting all of Strange Tales towards the numbering, since the Doctor Strange book from 1968 carried over the numbering. So that's 183 issues of Strange Tales/Dr. Strange 81 issues of Doctor Strange (1974-1987) 90 issues of Doctor Strange: Sorceror Supreme (1988-1996) 25 issues of Doctor Strange (2015 - September 2017) That's 379 issues as of September solicits, maybe Doctor Strange's renumbering doesn't kick in until November? The other one I wasn't sure about was Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man. 263 issues of Spectacular Spider-Man (1976-1998) 27 issues of Spectacular Spider-Man (2003-2005) 4 issues of Peter Parker: the Spectacular Spider-Man (June-September 2017) only gets you up to 294. BUT: The first-first volume of Spectacular Spider-Man was a two issue experiment with Marvel doing pricier "book length magazine" comics in 1968. So that makes 296 issues of Spectacular Spider-Man and then the fifth Zdarsky issue is #297. I think they actually thought this out. Unlike Nick Spencer amirite, UP TOP MY BROTHER Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Jul 1, 2017 |
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Jul 1, 2017 02:39
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Edge & Christian posted:263 issues of Spectacular Spider-Man (1976-1998) I don't know if it's those two magazine issues but it might be the two issues of Spectacular Scarlet Spider from the Clone Saga era. That makes more sense as it actually replaced the first volume for two months.
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Jul 1, 2017 03:02
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X-O posted:I don't know if it's those two magazine issues but it might be the two issues of Spectacular Scarlet Spider from the Clone Saga era. That makes more sense as it actually replaced the first volume for two months.
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Jul 1, 2017 03:09
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Edge & Christian posted:For some reason (maybe because it smacked of Age of Apocalypse) I always think that gimmick ran four months/issues. You are quite likely right. I don't have the patience to count all of the Amazing Spider-Manses to see if they include Amazing Scarlet Spider in there. Web of Scarlet Spider did run for four months so that might be why it's sticking in your head that way.
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Jul 1, 2017 03:13
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Edge & Christian posted:For some reason (maybe because it smacked of Age of Apocalypse) I always think that gimmick ran four months/issues. You are quite likely right. I don't have the patience to count all of the Amazing Spider-Manses to see if they include Amazing Scarlet Spider in there. Here's what I get counting the volumes (not counting any .1 issues) Amazing v1 - 441 Amazing Scarlet Spider - 2 Amazing v2 - (1-58 and 500-700) = 259 Superior Spider-Man - 33 Amazing v3 - 18 Amazing v4 - 32 (current solicited number) That gives me 785. There was an Amazing Spider-Man Special in 2015 that gets it to 786. There's a 19.1 and 20.1 for volume 3 because of a parallel story running but no actual 19 or 20 so they might be mistakenly counting two issues from that. Anyway, there's also a chance we get 34 issues from the current volume.
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Jul 1, 2017 03:38
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Edge & Christian posted:Legacy is not an event it's a branding for like new/revamped titles a la The Initiative, Dark Reign, Age of Heroes, Marvel Now, All-New All Different, etc. Presumably the renumbering is here to stay until they decide to relaunch books with new #1s at some point in the indeterminate future. You might be confusing Legacy (just an overall branding/messaging for the whole line) with Generations (a series of one-shots in August and September). Yeah you're right. I was thinking of Generations.
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Jul 1, 2017 03:51
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Wanderer posted:Apparently Methodists are a huge denomination in South Korea. Missionary work in the pacific shaped a lot of religious belief. One of the interesting effects mormon missionary work has is that it created a huge recruiting pool of samoan athletes for the college athletic programs in Utah. And by athletic programs I mean football offensive linemen the size of pick up trucks that do hakas.
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Jul 1, 2017 04:08
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Pak actually mentioned Cho's religion and struggles with faith offhandedly back in Incredible Herc. I think it was the Hades arc.
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Jul 1, 2017 04:32
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