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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed. |
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77 | 25.50% |
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160 | 52.98% |
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65 | 21.52% |
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JeffersonClay posted:
Just because you worship historical political icons as part of your identity doesn't mean that we have to.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:11
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I'm not worshiping FDR Im saying his immigration policies sucked and it's good that democrats stopped espousing them, instead choosing to defend immigration on its economic and moral merits.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:13
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JC had to time-travel 75+ years to find a progressive of note spouting outdated, bad racial stereotypes. Hillary was raving about Super-Predators in the formative years of the lion's share of current voters. Guess which one bothers him more.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:13
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i was responding to a post suggesting "immigrants help the economy" is warmed over 1930's conservatism, learn to read crew
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Aug 13, 2017 18:15
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dont u dare loving quote me you filth
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Aug 13, 2017 18:19
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take incoming: stay off twitter. twitter is poison. twitter is the death of solidarity. twitter got us into this loving mess. politics cannot be conducted in 140 character increments.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:22
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Willie Tomg posted:take incoming: stay off twitter. twitter is poison. twitter is the death of solidarity. twitter got us into this loving mess. politics cannot be conducted in 140 character increments. Twitter is actually very good and has helped me realize working class solidarity because I follow a lot of people in the DSA. It's also good for sporps. It's the worlds best RSS feed you just need to curate yours better.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:25
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but that means i have to be on twitter, more 
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Aug 13, 2017 18:35
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twitter is good because it shows me the daily quota of nazis being punched every day
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Aug 13, 2017 18:37
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Nosfereefer posted:And when it doesn't we shouldn't? gently caress off, JC. "Reduce immigration because it hurts wages" is literally the argument being pushed by so called leftists in this very thread, learn to read friend
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Aug 13, 2017 18:50
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JeffersonClay posted:"Reduce immigration because it hurts wages" is literally the argument being pushed by so called leftists in this very thread, learn to read friend The conversation is far more nuanced than that and the only value you bring to any forum is you are so evidently dishonest and amoral that you've swayed far more people to general agreement with my politics in D&D than I could've done alone.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:55
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JeffersonClay posted:"Reduce immigration because it hurts wages" is literally the argument being pushed by so called leftists in this very thread, learn to read friend I don't think leftists are saying that.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:58
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JeffersonClay posted:"Reduce immigration because it hurts wages" is literally the argument being pushed by so called leftists in this very thread, learn to read friend It is the argument you wish was the consensus of the thread, when in reality he consensus is that labor standards should be universally raised so that immigrants don't become a means for businesses to advance their race to the bottom. Of course, you take issue with this proposal because you think that paying people more and improving labor standards increases COSTS! and we can't have that, so you just ignore it and strawman like hell.
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Aug 13, 2017 19:08
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JeffersonClay posted:"Reduce immigration because it hurts wages" is literally the argument being pushed by so called leftists in this very thread, learn to read friend Go to hell you racist piece of trash. I've followed this thread enough to know you'll defend slavery.
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Aug 13, 2017 19:19
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Nosfereefer posted:Go to hell you racist piece of trash. I've followed this thread enough to know you'll defend slavery.
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Aug 13, 2017 19:22
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Sneakster posted:And deporting child refugees to certain death gang warfare, don't forget that. Also his notorious scat fetish. He also has that fetish about rats.
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Aug 13, 2017 20:12
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Willie Tomg posted:take incoming: stay off twitter. twitter is poison. twitter is the death of solidarity. twitter got us into this loving mess. politics cannot be conducted in 140 character increments. You can, however, dox & tox people out of their jobs with Twitter as a coordination and identification aid, which is happening with photos of Nazis from the rally at pretty good scale right now. Lots of poor fucks are being identified and the contents of their private social media dumped like poop socks into the open air. One white supremacist has been confirmed to have already lost his job.
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Aug 13, 2017 20:24
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The dems will lose in 2018 and beyond if the twittersphere is any indication of the fragmentation of the party. I want to say ignore it as fringe positions and echochamber effects but any element of irrational division is bad. Three trends I'm seeing on Twitter in the past day that I'm pretty nervous about 1) doxxing people which oops turns out that's not the guy, hope no one burned his house down 2) advocating escalation of violence against people who are shitbags and though they deserve to be punched, feeds into their narrative and doesn't accomplish anything 3) centrists lashing out at phantom enemies on the "left" and focusing energy and attention in the complete opposite direction of where it should be applied. The supposed opposition party is limp and by appearances rife with infighting, and the leadership seems determined to continue on the path to ruin, their mouthpieces are more interested in tearing down allies than working toward any definitive goal.
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Aug 13, 2017 20:37
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I don't think Twitter is representative if only because the type of people who are gonna use Twitter primarily for political posts are most likely the most extreme and politically active people on any given position on the political spectrum. Your average Americans are unlikely to be clued into the left/liberal divide or understanding of its nuances. That doesn't mean it isn't significant, but I think that it's overrepresented as an issue compared to what your average voter likely gives a poo poo about. There was some good interviews, I can't remember if they were here or another thread, with people who voted Hillary in the primary, and they were like "yeah Bernie is cool, it's whatever man, I just hadn't heard of him." That doesn't mean the left/liberal divide should be dismissed, but I don't think Twitter chains are evidence that all Democrats are now choosing a side in the apocalyptic ideological war or whatever.
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Aug 13, 2017 21:04
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Crowsbeak posted:He also has that fetish about rats. scat rats
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Aug 13, 2017 21:04
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So, people are now trying to get the Nazi march participants doxxed/fired via social media, and, while I approve in principal- wouldn't employers who fire them open themselves up to wrongful termination suits? You know, "not discriminating based on race, creed, color", and all that?
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Aug 13, 2017 21:59
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Mister Facetious posted:So, people are now trying to get the Nazi march participants doxxed/fired via social media, and, while I approve in principal- wouldn't employers who fire them open themselves up to wrongful termination suits? i don't think nazi is a protected class
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Aug 13, 2017 22:00
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Hello, it is disingenuous to pretend that arguments against immigration driven by literal plantation owners are arguments against immigration of all sorts. See: When people point out that produce rots in absence of immigrants, they mean produce rots because there are no below-average-wage immigrants to pick it. Immigrants need to be part of the same labour movement as born citizens, and they need to enjoy the same benefits. Basing agriculture on the existence of an illegal underclass that thoroughly distorts the labor market is a very liberal thing to do, since it only serves the owners / employers.
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Aug 13, 2017 22:01
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class Nazism doesn't count as a religion, I don't think?
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Aug 13, 2017 22:01
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Mister Facetious posted:So, people are now trying to get the Nazi march participants doxxed/fired via social media, and, while I approve in principal- wouldn't employers who fire them open themselves up to wrongful termination suits? They could argue that it creates a hostile work environment and opens them to potential lawsuits from minority employees who can't work with a Nazi. I doubt it would have consequences for most of these fucks though, sadly.
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Aug 13, 2017 22:07
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God forbid we actually look at the actual causes of these events and not just hand-wring and tweet for points. We're in this mess because of eight years of King Hussein more concerned about his legacy and "ReAcHiNg AcRoSs ThE aIsLe" while fueling a groundswell of white nationalism that he refused to acknowledge which took over the local governments, followed up by the Dems nominating a literal slaveowner to go against Trump, the one person who had no good counters to any of his points or flaws. As far as I'm concerned, Hillary was driving that car in Charlottesville yesterday and Obama was riding shotgun. Her blood is on their hands.
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Aug 13, 2017 22:24
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ChairMaster posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class Look, I just don't want lawyers to figure out how they can make money for themselves and Nazis out of this.
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Aug 13, 2017 22:27
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ChairMaster posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class Part of its origins are in the Thule Society wacky cult crazies, but Thule became uncool by the time Hitler took power, and it's more of a footnote that has seen heavy mileage in Nazi comic book villainy.
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Aug 13, 2017 22:34
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dont even fink about it posted:Part of its origins are in the Thule Society wacky cult crazies, but Thule became uncool by the time Hitler took power, and it's more of a footnote that has seen heavy mileage in Nazi comic book villainy. C. Everett Koop posted:As far as I'm concerned, Hillary was driving that car in Charlottesville yesterday and Obama was riding shotgun. Her blood is on their hands.
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Aug 13, 2017 22:59
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Top notch reporting CNN:
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Aug 13, 2017 23:00
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Can employers discriminate based on political affiliation in America?
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Aug 13, 2017 23:22
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Mister Facetious posted:Can employers discriminate based on political affiliation in America? Absolutely yes. Your boss can say "I'm firing you because you're a Democrat/Republican/Independent/whatever" and there's nothing legally wrong with that.
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Aug 13, 2017 23:23
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BadOptics posted:Top notch reporting CNN:  I could have sworn there was some quote of Trump from years ago joking about destroying the federal government and wanting to see the chaos. This poo poo isn't accidental: he isn't coincidentally not decrying the fascist power plays and there's already a GOP republican candidate in Virginia using Reichstag fire before it even goes cold. The police are going to give room for these people to do more and worse and any resistance to literal loving murder sprees will be used as excuse and exploited by GOP sympathies. As a nation we don't have an external enemy or any realistic avenue of reform to quell dissent from domestic terrorists facing existential demographic collapse with no practical reason to support democracy allied with a political party also already embracing the violence and facing the same lack of benefit from open elections lead by an executive making increasingly broad overtures towards cancelling elections, flouting the law, and a military executive branch of traitors, fascists, and criminals who have made it abundantly clear who's side their taking when the poo poo hits the fan and a military Junta is inevitably the most practical choice when Trump is up against criminal charges and electoral loss. E: Seriously, ask yourself a basic question: what concessions to these people would reduce their violence and why or how would they reduce it otherwise? Sneakster fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 23:26
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JeffersonClay posted:If "immigrants are good they help the economy" was a conservative argument in the 1930's (it really wasn't), then it's a good thing that democrats co opted it instead of making the same arguments they were making, so LBJ could pass https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965 The conservative argument he's referring to is using "crops will go to waste" as an economic argument any time people take action that creates a temporary shortage in labor (for example labor strikes). Reading comprehension! edit: though to be fair it seems like other people also somehow didn't pick up on that, though at least they weren't making snarky replies on the basis of a misunderstanding Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 23:29
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Condiv posted:the left sure is united. centrists however had a good time yesterday punching left though. lot of "both sides!" out of them yesterday as a leftist got killed by a murderous fascist All your examples: "a Twitter said a mean thing." Because you can't scapegoat your hated centrist Dem politicians. Also the IWW put out a statement that none of their members were killed.
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Aug 13, 2017 23:32
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MooselanderII posted:It is the argument you wish was the consensus of the thread, when in reality he consensus is that labor standards should be universally raised so that immigrants don't become a means for businesses to advance their race to the bottom. Of course, you take issue with this proposal because you think that paying people more and improving labor standards increases COSTS! and we can't have that, so you just ignore it and strawman like hell. This sounds a lot like talking about the economic impacts of immigration which is the sin Kamala Harris was guilty of. Have y'all lost the thread that quickly? steinrokkan posted:Hello, it is disingenuous to pretend that arguments against immigration driven by literal plantation owners are arguments against immigration of all sorts. See: When people point out that produce rots in absence of immigrants, they mean produce rots because there are no below-average-wage immigrants to pick it. Immigrants need to be part of the same labour movement as born citizens, and they need to enjoy the same benefits. Basing agriculture on the existence of an illegal underclass that thoroughly distorts the labor market is a very liberal thing to do, since it only serves the owners / employers. http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/ quote:Today, farmworkers in the state earn about $30,000 a year if they work full time — about half the overall average pay in California. Most work fewer hours. That's $15 per hour. The average undocumented farmworker in CA makes more per hour than Willie Tomg does. C. Everett Koop posted:God forbid we actually look at the actual causes of these events and not just hand-wring and tweet for points. We're in this mess because of eight years of King Hussein more concerned about his legacy and "ReAcHiNg AcRoSs ThE aIsLe" while fueling a groundswell of white nationalism that he refused to acknowledge which took over the local governments, followed up by the Dems nominating a literal slaveowner to go against Trump, the one person who had no good counters to any of his points or flaws. And of course this insane racist apologia goes ignored.
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Aug 13, 2017 23:35
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JeffersonClay posted:And of course this insane racist apologia goes ignored. You of all people should understand not feeding the trolls. He has nothing of substance to say. And please, no one come in here with "Actualllllllllly, Obama might be considered at fault...  " bullshit. He calls the man "Hussein" he's a loving nutter, don't give him legitimacy.
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Aug 13, 2017 23:36
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WampaLord posted:You of all people should understand not feeding the trolls. He has nothing of substance to say. I'm sorry, are you saying a poster who only calls Barack Obama by his middle name is...not posting in good faith?!
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Aug 13, 2017 23:38
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JeffersonClay posted:This sounds a lot like talking about the economic impacts of immigration which is the sin Kamala Harris was guilty of. Have y'all lost the thread that quickly? Turns out that it, per free market, is too little to pay for back-breaking labor! Just because you clear some arbitrary threshold doesn't mean you are paying people a fair wage.
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Aug 13, 2017 23:39
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Ytlaya posted:The conservative argument he's referring to is using "crops will go to waste" as an economic argument any time people take action that creates a temporary shortage in labor (for example labor strikes). Conservatives in the 1930's were anti-immigration. They made exactly the argument people in this thread have made-- immigrants drive down wages for american workers. quote:113 - White House Statement on Government Policies To Reduce Immigration. This argument is even more non-sequiter because Kamala Harris got the backing of the UFW in her senate race. http://www.latimes.com/politics/ess...-htmlstory.html quote:California's iconic United Farm Workers union on Wednesday endorsed Atty. Gen. Kamala Harris for U.S. Senate, saying she has been a champion for immigrant workers and the rights of unionized laborers. WampaLord posted:You of all people should understand not feeding the trolls. He has nothing of substance to say. i'm taking this as an implicit compliment on the content and quality of my posting. steinrokkan posted:Turns out that it, per free market, is too little to pay for back-breaking labor! Just because you clear some arbitrary threshold doesn't mean you are paying people a fair wage. I'm pretty sure $15 dollars per hour isn't just some meaningless arbitrary threshold considering it's one of the litmus tests for bad democrats itt JeffersonClay fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 23:41
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