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Lurdiak posted:Terry Kavanagh crowbarred Nightwatch into the already overcrowded Maximum Carnage crossover, completely derailing the plot for the issues he wrote. How can you derail a trainwreck?
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Apr 26, 2019 08:32
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Skwirl posted:How can you derail a trainwreck? It was on the tracks, they just happened to be heading off a cliff. But really, Maximum Carnage isn't nearly as bad as its reputation. It's an 8 issue story that got stretched out to 14 issues and pulled in too many directions by having a ton of writers working on it and no one steering the ship, but you can find so much worse in the 90s.
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Apr 26, 2019 09:28
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Rick posted:I honestly wonder how Englehart got so much run because a lot of his stuff is in general pretty bad, and when it's not mysteriously there multiple writers listed on the issue. I feel like maybe he had a lot of ideas that he was able to get out there quickly, but it usually took some collaboration to get those ideas to be palatable. Which, hey, I can relate to. Englehart did some good stuff. His Dr. Strange, for example, is really good. So are the early issues of The Defenders. But when he goes off the deep end, he really goes off the deep end. His already bad Fantastic Four run, for example, ends in him having a temper tantrum. Basically, it's four issues of "Look at all the cool stories [note: they were really stupid ideas] you could have had if Marvel weren't dicks to me!" followed by the FF running off to tell Englehart how he is the greatest. And his temper tantrum was over the editor not letting Mantis take over the book.
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Apr 26, 2019 12:15
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He wrote the best retcon of all time in Cap # 155, in which he explained how the 1950s Cap and Bucky fit into the Marvel universe (as racist psychos). He’s got some real stinkers but overall he was one of the better early post-Lee writers.
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Apr 26, 2019 12:50
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Mark Gruenwald and Quasar. Mantis chat reminded me that a lot of writers seem to have had a soft spot for the Swordsman, which I find really inexplicable. I feel like that bland dork got an undeserved push for basically forever.
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Apr 26, 2019 12:54
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Swordsman sucks, for sure, but he's very, very cool.
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Apr 26, 2019 12:57
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Rick posted:He may not be totally wrong about the MCU since so much of the Thanos stuff that a lot of this stems from came from him and Starlin working together. But if I remember correctly those are credited as Englehart scripting which sort of implies that Starlin was coming up with the main ideas. (I am paraphrasing) "I made Captain America popular enough they wanted to make bad TV movies based on him, so I started the trend of Superhero movies." "Also I made Batman popular, who knows if people like Moore or Miller would have taken Batman seriously in the 1980s were it not for me, never mind them making a Batman movie or Batman Animated Series?" "I created Starlord, he was the main character in Guardians of the Galaxy, those were my movies." "I was going to be a writer on Charmed, but they never hired me because of budget cuts." "I was the only person who could have followed up Daredevil: Born Again but a lady editor stole the job and I guess Daredevil will be stuck in Frank Miller's shadow forever, since a superior talent like myself never came along to push the narrative forward." "I insisted on having a gay character in New Guardians, which opened the door for Milestone to be able to get their diverse comics out without editorial fights, you're welcome Milestone!" It's bizarre, he has in fact had a long and influential career but he always seems to take it one step beyond. Or several steps.
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Apr 26, 2019 13:54
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Edge & Christian posted:Thanos is definitely a character that Englehart could try to take at least partial credit for making popular in the 1970s, but that would require sharing credit with other people. Instead his technique is more stuff like The Hulk Hogan of comics or is that someone else?
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Apr 26, 2019 14:04
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This has me wondering which creators are the opposite of that - wildly influential but not really recognized for it and not into talking themselves up.
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Apr 26, 2019 14:19
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Pastry of the Year posted:This has me wondering which creators are the opposite of that - wildly influential but not really recognized for it and not into talking themselves up. Joe Kubert? Insanely influential both as a result of his work and his school, but not a guy to talk about it too much.
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Apr 26, 2019 14:47
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Pastry of the Year posted:This has me wondering which creators are the opposite of that - wildly influential but not really recognized for it and not into talking themselves up.
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Apr 26, 2019 14:51
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Would Wally Wood qualify?
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Apr 26, 2019 14:59
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Edge & Christian posted:"I created Starlord, he was the main character in Guardians of the Galaxy, those were my movies." That one's really funny. While I don't think Starlord had much of a personality pre-movies, one complaint I've absolutely heard several times is 'he's not like in the comics.'
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Apr 26, 2019 15:02
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Dawgstar posted:That one's really funny. While I don't think Starlord had much of a personality pre-movies, one complaint I've absolutely heard several times is 'he's not like in the comics.' I haven't read the early comics, but he had a solid portrayal in Annihilation and the Abnett/Lanning comics that followed. Very different from the movies. He was a world weary pragmatist soldier type. At the start he's in the same prison as in the same prison as in the first movie because he wanted to be there. He blew up a planet or something in order to save the universe I think.
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Apr 26, 2019 15:25
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Skwirl posted:I haven't read the early comics, but he had a solid portrayal in Annihilation and the Abnett/Lanning comics that followed. Very different from the movies. He was a world weary pragmatist soldier type. At the start he's in the same prison as in the same prison as in the first movie because he wanted to be there. He blew up a planet or something in order to save the universe I think. I wonder if Abnett and Lanning get movie-related checks. They were responsible for so many good things.
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Apr 26, 2019 15:27
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Pastry of the Year posted:This has me wondering which creators are the opposite of that - wildly influential but not really recognized for it and not into talking themselves up. This is tough because comic books are so insular that there isn't really anyone who fits there; we know the creators with large bodies of significant work. The best case I could make for creators who don't get their due are the people who did great work pre-Action Comics 1 and some underground creators from the 60's and 70's. prefect posted:I wonder if Abnett and Lanning get movie-related checks. They were responsible for so many good things. No comic creator is getting rich off of the Marvel movies (DC had much better contracts for the licensing of characters, so some people may be making some money there). Some of the characters and things they created did get used so they probably got a token amount, but less than they deserved given how much of their version of the Guardians of the Galaxy is in the movie. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 15:40
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Rick Veitch is a name I don't see brought up as much as it probably should be
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Apr 26, 2019 15:54
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It might be kinda tacky to answer my own question, but something just occurred to me: the people who designed some of the all-time classic cover logos. Here are a ton of good write-ups on the subject.
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Apr 26, 2019 16:01
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Random Stranger posted:No comic creator is getting rich off of the Marvel movies (DC had much better contracts for the licensing of characters, so some people may be making some money there). Some of the characters and things they created did get used so they probably got a token amount, but less than they deserved given how much of their version of the Guardians of the Galaxy is in the movie. Although it is funny or sad that Jim Starlin is saying that he's been treated much better by the MCU than the comic side.
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Apr 26, 2019 16:05
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Skwirl posted:How can you derail a trainwreck?  Toot Toot!
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Apr 26, 2019 16:16
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Pastry of the Year posted:This has me wondering which creators are the opposite of that - wildly influential but not really recognized for it and not into talking themselves up. Well he can't talk for himself because he is dead but I'm going to throw Bill Finger in the ring. gently caress Bob Kane forever.
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Apr 26, 2019 17:12
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Skwirl posted:I haven't read the early comics, but he had a solid portrayal in Annihilation and the Abnett/Lanning comics that followed. Very different from the movies. He was a world weary pragmatist soldier type. At the start he's in the same prison as in the same prison as in the first movie because he wanted to be there. He blew up a planet or something in order to save the universe I think. From Englehart himself: quote:I conceived something very large. My hero would go from being a jerk to the most cosmic being in the universe, and I would tie it into my then-new interest in astrology. After his earthbound beginning, his mind would be opened step by step, with a fast-action story on Mercury, a love story on Venus, a war story on Mars, and so on out to the edge of the solar system, and then beyond.
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Apr 26, 2019 18:01
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Madkal posted:Well he can't talk for himself because he is dead but I'm going to throw Bill Finger in the ring. gently caress Bob Kane forever. On the same tip, Jerry Robinson.
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Apr 26, 2019 18:02
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Madkal posted:Well he can't talk for himself because he is dead but I'm going to throw Bill Finger in the ring. gently caress Bob Kane forever. I always kind of laugh when people call Stan Lee a pirate because few people have anything on Kane.
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Apr 26, 2019 18:51
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Schneider Heim posted:Kinda of a broad question, but who among comic book writers have pet characters for the Big 2? That is, characters they love writing and get super-protective of that it's very transparent in their work? It could also be for characters they didn't invent. Dini loves Zatanna Jason Aaron loves Quentin Quire He's an artist, but I always thought it was cute that Dustin Nguyen clearly has a soft spot for Colin Wilkes/Abuse and Klarion the Witch Boy, two characters nobody else even really seems to think about all that much Ask him to draw two supporting characters from Batman, he'll probably draw Damian Wayne and Cassandra Cain, but ask him to draw four or more and see if Colin and Klarion don't sneak in there     :3 And I can't prove it yet but I'm pretty sure Bendis loves Bart Allen and we just didn't know it because he wasn't writing for DC It's the way he writes him. Like he flat out ignored the cool, cocky Greg Weismann characterization and everything Geoff Johns did, and instead picked up a baton left behind 16 years ago by Mark Waid, Todd Dezago, and Peter David
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Apr 26, 2019 20:48
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Cubone posted:Ask him to draw two supporting characters from Batman, he'll probably draw Cassandra Cain And God bless him for it.
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Apr 26, 2019 21:26
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Cubone posted:Dini loves Zatanna poo poo how did no one get that until now. I mean Englehart might be the king of "pet characters" but second place has to go to the guy who practically married his favorite character.
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Apr 26, 2019 23:52
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I think about Klarion the Witch-Boy all the time. I would read probably an endless amount of Morrison doing his take on him from Seven Soldiers.
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Apr 27, 2019 20:33
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I'd read Gmo written ongoing of any of the Seven Soldiers.
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Apr 27, 2019 20:42
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Random Stranger posted:No comic creator is getting rich off of the Marvel movies (DC had much better contracts for the licensing of characters, so some people may be making some money there). Some of the characters and things they created did get used so they probably got a token amount, but less than they deserved given how much of their version of the Guardians of the Galaxy is in the movie. I recall Len Wein saying at one point that Lucius Fox had brought him more money than Wolverine.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:33
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FoneBone posted:I recall Len Wein saying at one point that Lucius Fox had brought him more money than Wolverine. Before there were movies Jack Kirby made more money off his New Gods poo poo than any of the stuff from Marvel. I don't know if his estate gets any money at all from the Marvel films.
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Apr 28, 2019 06:14
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Skwirl posted:Before there were movies Jack Kirby made more money off his New Gods poo poo than any of the stuff from Marvel. I don't know if his estate gets any money at all from the Marvel films. I think part of the recent changes meant more money for the Kirby estate. Paging E&C, do you have the deets on this?
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Apr 28, 2019 06:25
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How did Nova go from being in the New Warriors to the seasoned veteran he’s depicted as in current Guardians of the Galaxy? He dropped off the radar for me like....20 years ago.
nemesis_hub fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Apr 29, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 10:10
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nemesis_hub posted:How did Nova go from being in the New Warriors to the seasoned veteran he’s depicted as in current Guardians of the Galaxy? He dropped me off the radar for me like....20 years ago. My son, go forth and read Annihilation.
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Apr 28, 2019 10:11
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nemesis_hub posted:How did Nova go from being in the New Warriors to the seasoned veteran he’s depicted as in current Guardians of the Galaxy? He dropped me off the radar for me like....20 years ago. In the run-up to Annihilation Rich is hanging on Xandar when it's destroyed by the Annihilation Wave and for a while ends up containing the entirety of the Nova Force within him, as well as the Xandarian Worldmind. He then proceeds to be the Big drat Hero. Dude's been through the poo poo, y'know? He got thrown in the deep end, something fierce. Seconding Rhyno: Rhyno posted:My son, go forth and read Annihilation.
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Apr 28, 2019 10:46
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nemesis_hub posted:How did Nova go from being in the New Warriors to the seasoned veteran he’s depicted as in current Guardians of the Galaxy? He dropped me off the radar for me like....20 years ago. Yeah, pretty much all that growth can be depicted in Annihilation. So I have a question. Can anyone remember which comic it is that uses the line "It was an Avenger's World. The first of many!" I know it happens in Hickman's run, But I'm blanking on the when.
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Apr 28, 2019 12:39
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Sometime during Infinity.
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Apr 28, 2019 13:07
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FoneBone posted:I recall Len Wein saying at one point that Lucius Fox had brought him more money than Wolverine. That's only a few years apart, but in 1975 the Superman movie was announced as going into production, and the story of Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel both being essentially destitute and uncompensated for nearly fifty years of Superman comics/TV shows/toys/cartoons/etc. turned into a national news story. DC eventually agreed to give Siegel/Shuster some sort of pension, but on the back of all of the press about the Superman movie, Neal Adams and a bunch of other creators were trying to state a Comics Creators Guild similar to WGA/DGA/etc. to standardize compensation for this sort of thing, but it never got off of the ground for all of the reasons that unions get sabotaged/stillborn. But still, when Jenette Kahn came on as DC's new publisher in 1976 (from outside of the comics world) one of the things she did was establish new contracts that stipulate some level of 'creator equity' or various other terms which essentially mean that every time Lucius Fox appears in somewhere, Len Wein gets some money. The same is true for post-1976 characters and their creators when Bane shows up in stuff, and eventually Marvel followed suit so that there are automatic creator payouts for movies/TV/video games/etc. for characters like Deadpool, Runaways, Jessica Jones, and seemingly any characters created after the mid-1980s. But it's also pretty same to assume that Len Wein has gotten more money for Lucius Fox (created for DC in 1978) than he ever has for Swamp Thing (created for DC in 1971, before the contracts). All of this is effectively obscured by confidentiality agreements and most people just not liking to talk real numbers about what they get paid. It's a tangle of copyright terminations and countersuits and a more recent tangle with the Jack Kirby estate, the majority of these cases end up in out of court settlements, which is what happened with the Kirby estate in 2014 for a lawsuit that started in 2009. I think both Marvel and DC are trying to provide non-legally-binding "thanks" and payments to creators of pre-equity-contract characters (see Jim Starlin) in order to minimize future lawsuits/bad PR. Though over at DC TV the new wave appears to be the rough equivalent of going "Oh no, we're not using your character it's just a similar character" as an end-run. The Question IRL posted:So I have a question. Can anyone remember which comic it is that uses the line "It was an Avenger's World. The first of many!" Hickman continues to use it as a repeating phrase throughout the series, and yeah, it really gets hammered in Infinity. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 13:18
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Senior Woodchuck posted:Sometime during Infinity. I believe it's in his first arc.
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Apr 28, 2019 13:27
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Edge & Christian posted:All of this is effectively obscured by confidentiality agreements and most people just not liking to talk real numbers about what they get paid. It's a tangle of copyright terminations and countersuits and a more recent tangle with the Jack Kirby estate, the majority of these cases end up in out of court settlements, which is what happened with the Kirby estate in 2014 for a lawsuit that started in 2009. The Kirby case is a great resource for looking at what was happening internally at these companies in the 50's and 60's. I wouldn't take people's statements as gospel; it's been fifty years and these people have been telling stories about it for decades. If you start looking at what people have said over the years, everybody's stories have changed many times. Still you can kind of see a bit of truth through the haze.
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Apr 28, 2019 13:46
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