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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I've been seeing some complaints that the cast in this game is weaker than P4s and people are disappointed, and while on a fundamental level they're sort of right, the reasons the cast feels weaker is because they made decisions about how to portray the cast that make the game better as a whole. P4 had SO MUCH time that was spend on just random poo poo that had nothing to do with anything, and while this did a good job developing the cast, it really gave the game an inconsistent tone. One minute your friend is hanging dead from a TV antennae and your party member's best friend has been kidnapped, then two days later you're on a knee-slapping camping trip. In P5, almost every single thing the cast does and talks about somehow contributes to the idea of the Phantom Thieves, the character's motivations, or what they think the Phantom Thieves should be or represent. The game feels much more conscious of the tones and themes that it wanted to be about, and used every opportunity to develop the characters within those regards. As a result, we get less time where we get to see the characters having carefree fun and going on whacky adventures, but at the same time, P5 feels like a game where the characters have too much at stake to be acting that carelessly, and it makes the plot of the game feel much more focused and the supernatural elements feel like a natural extension of what the cast was already experiencing, as opposed to P4's supernatural reveal which felt lazily tacked-on. I can't understand people who say that P4's cast is stronger than 5's, though, at all. I see it all over the place and I really don't get it. Persona 4 is one of my favorite games, but I think people might either have some serious nostalgia going on for it, or they're prioritizing "wacky fun hangout times with these characters" over "strong characterization." Which is another way of saying that I agree about the consistent tone. I think Persona 5 made the right call to tie everything into the main plot and themes as strongly as it could, and while it means there are fewer "remember that funny time when X character did Y thing?" moments than in 4, I think it's a stronger game and a stronger cast for it. CharlieFoxtrot posted:I would love for Haru to have more story beats in game. The S.Link would still have to be pretty late barring a major rewrite but at least you should meet her maybe near the beginning of summer? The same way Makoto starts featuring into the story during the second dungeon storyline I think her social link could be introduced earlier with only minimal rewrites. Like let's say you can do the first three or four ranks before she becomes plot-locked until she joins. Rewrite those ranks to make sense even if her father is still alive and she isn't a Phantom Thief--maybe focus on the coffee and vegetables part first. Then plot-lock it at rank 4 because her fiance won't let her hang out with you anymore and open that up after she joins. From there, pick up the plot where she tries to figure out if she can trust the board and tries to get out of her engagement. Harrow fucked around with this message at 21:41 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 21:37
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I think P4 had a little bit more personality that P5, but made the mistake of assigning funny lines to the game's narration and not attaching those lines to Yu himself. Portal to the meat dimension is a goddamn hilarious line, but if that existed in P5 it would have been Joker saying it himself. Initially during the tutorial stage of the game I disliked that Joker was getting so much dialogue until I realized that P5 really doesn't even try to pitch him as a silent protagonist, but he works really well as a result. They also did a better job of working around his dialogue choices, where now in my second playthrough I'm picking dialogue options I didn't the first time and people are actually reacting to them, as opposed to the game giving you three options that all lead to the same responses from other characters like P3/4 did so often. Things like the fireworks festival, the Hawaii trip and the Culture Festival just feel weirdly there and some serve very little purpose imo. The fireworks festival gets rained out, leading to you seeing Haru. Nothing happens on the Hawaii trip other than everyone talking about how popular the Phantom Theives are, Mishima making GBS threads his pants, and you spend three minutes with an arbitrarily selected girl. The Culture Festival was much more plot important, but there's a whole day before it that's just Goro eating a spicy takoyaki and leaving, end scene. And then you can get another three minutes with a random girl. Even the beach trip with Futaba is a little bit of party banter, two minutes of a talking to girls montage and Lobster Yusuke (this owns tho) I like that these events are almost subversive in a way (the fireworks festival is cancelled, the culture festival is kind of a mess because of the principal dying), it does a good job of making the overall tone darker, but I still feel they're somewhat trying to make these lighthearted party wide comedy moments and then just whiffing on it, making these events feel kiiiiiinda pointless. The Hawaii one is sore spot for me, cause everyone complains about how it's not that much more fun that being back home, and it just further sets up the Okumura plotline and idk, did we really need to go to Hawaii for that. Like they write Yusuke back into the Hawaii trip, but I truly do not thing he gets a single line after he explains why he's there, it's really weird. I don't want awful jokes like sneaking into the girl's side of the hot spring or showing off how bad the girls are at cooking, I just wanna see this cast be silly more e: like some of my fav group moments are just getting the gang together and seeing everyone's idle animation as they sit around which is kinda hosed up imo. but those idle animations rule tho, Joker spinning his phone, Makoto studying, Ann languidly checking twitter, Yusuke hongry, Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 21:42 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 21:37
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Re: the Joker is the best protag chat, I think his having little lines here and there goes a long way. Like whenever you pull out your journal to save or whenever you stay idle in battle. The best example is when you do the calling card for Shido. Joker doesn't say an especially notable line (something like "we've come to steal your heart") but it's made really awesome simply because it's Joker saying it.
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May 7, 2017 21:59
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ROFL Octopus posted:Re: the Joker is the best protag chat, I think his having little lines here and there goes a long way. Like whenever you pull out your journal to save or whenever you stay idle in battle. He says "We're going to take this country," which is pretty badass. I definitely love that Joker got some actual lines, though, especially at that moment.
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May 7, 2017 22:07
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wait can you hang out with kawakami on the Hawaii trip?
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May 7, 2017 22:08
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spit on my clit posted:wait can you hang out with kawakami on the Hawaii trip? If you're dating her, yes.
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May 7, 2017 22:09
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Harrow posted:He says "We're going to take this country," which is pretty badass. I definitely love that Joker got some actual lines, though, especially at that moment.  Ok that's a lot cooler than I remembered it.
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May 7, 2017 22:11
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Okay so I finished palace 7 and just went to mementos and finished all the missions but I still can't go to the depths?
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May 7, 2017 23:09
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You'll know when it's time.
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May 7, 2017 23:08
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ChaosArgate posted:You'll know when it's time. Okay. Just wanted to make sure it would be lead by the plot and not something I had to initiate. I was just making sure it was safe for me to leave Mementos for now.
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May 7, 2017 23:13
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DoctorGonzo posted:I unlocked the hideout. Im pretty far in the game? Im going to lobotomize that loving voleyball teacher! I just unlocked the 5th palace, and I'm pretty sure I won't remotely max my social links. I'll be doing good just to get my party members maxed (plus goth doc and whiny Mishima). WhiteHowler fucked around with this message at 23:27 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 23:18
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So is Mementos depths the final dungeon? Is it just like 15 more floors of mementos? I was expecting a final dungeon proper.
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May 7, 2017 23:48
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Mordiceius posted:So is Mementos depths the final dungeon? Is it just like 15 more floors of mementos? I was expecting a final dungeon proper. It is different than what has come before. It's not random, for one thing
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May 7, 2017 23:49
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Moltrey posted:I super agree for the most part, I love the P5 cast far and ahead the most out of any modern Persona cast, but my biggest problem with the cast together is that while you see how effective they can be is a group, I don't feel you get to see enough of how goofy they can be and the events specifically set up for this, don't do it and kinda feel like they're just there to be there. The group chats have good bits like Yusuke with the wrong Medjed and Futaba being savage to Goro, but no matter how much I love them, I still feel a bit disconnected. This isn't the spoiler thread so I'll use tags. Yeah, this is where I am too. I loved P4 and playing P5 left me a bit disappointed at how lacklustre the "the gang hanging out" events where. And it's a drat shame because otherwise I think P5 is far and away superior to P4 in almost every aspect I can think of, but nearly every event that had potential to be just fun, relaxing hanging out was just a terrible disappointment or felt pointless. For that matter a lot of things about P5 feel like they could've been so much better; the basics are there, their potential is just wasted. If they do make an enhanced version like with P4G, I hope they cut some of the annoying and pointless stuff (like constant Mementos nagging in mail) and replace it with something better, as opposed to just adding another month and cramming even more stuff into the schedule.
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May 8, 2017 00:00
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I thought the "nothing happens" described in the Hawaii trip in that post ("you see how popular the Phantom Thieves are") was basically the point of the Hawaii trip and is important to the story. That people in America know about the Phantom Thieves is meant to illustrate that the stakes are ramping up and things might be on the verge of getting out of hand, which they do shortly thereafter.
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May 8, 2017 00:04
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:It is different than what has come before. It's not random, for one thing Ah well there we go. I totally was expecting Mementos depths and the final dungeon to be two different things. Well, this place at least looks cooler and has different music.
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May 8, 2017 00:07
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:e: that being said about the cast, even the worst social link in this game is better than 95% of the social links in P3/4, and every party member's social link is better than their counterpart's social link in previous games (Ryuji > Junpei > Yosuke, Ann > Yukari > Chie, etc.) Ann's social link is pretty darn mediocre and Yukari's is pretty good. I can kiiinda see where they were trying to go with Ann's but it just felt like a jumbled mess. Even Rise's SL had more coherency. I do agree that I'd have liked the P5 cast to just be kicking back and having fun once in a while. Yusuke being an lovable awkward dork even in group conversations is the closest you really get to that. It doesn't mean that the revamped edition needs to clog up more free days with things like P4G's concert, but maybe just flesh out things like the school trip more.
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May 8, 2017 00:08
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Well, part of the thing is that in P4 the team literally has nothing to do between cases. They're fundamentally reactive, and can only wait for another victim to show up. By contrast, in P5 the team spends its time between targets looking for a new target, at least half-heartedly. They take the initiative. The Investigation Team is only active when someone's in danger, but the Phantom Thieves are always Phantom Thieves, 24/7.
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May 8, 2017 00:17
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I think there was/is plenty of room to add character beats without changing the schedule, there are already plenty of days where like one thing happens. Surely there's enough time to eat a giant watermelon in Hawaii or something
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May 8, 2017 00:21
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ApplesandOranges posted:Ann's social link is pretty darn mediocre and Yukari's is pretty good. I can kiiinda see where they were trying to go with Ann's but it just felt like a jumbled mess. Even Rise's SL had more coherency. I could never bring myself to like Yukari when I realized she decided her mom was a slut and hated her at the ripe old age of six. There is no way her judgement in whatever situation her mom was in was unbiased. Also, "Stupei" was the most grating thing. DoctorGonzo posted:I unlocked the hideout. Im pretty far in the game? Im going to lobotomize that loving voleyball teacher! 
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May 8, 2017 00:32
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There's also been several spinoffs for folks to get more attached to the Persona 4 cast, and I think people who might have invested heavily in all of those have forgotten what was just in vanilla P4 back when they first played it. I would love for the Phantom Thieves to have more fun times together and more development (especially Haru), but within the game itself, I feel they're a pretty solid group.
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May 8, 2017 00:40
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If one of the spinoffs is not a cafe management sim, Atlus will have dropped the ball
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May 8, 2017 01:02
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A lot of my fondness for p4 was that instead of playing it myself, i watched giant bomb play it. They elevated a lot of the cast with their take on them. That said, p5 should've had more time to button mash moments. Buy futaba a nice lamp from your trip, or fight goro for the spicy takoyaki then regret it.
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May 8, 2017 01:11
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I wonder if Giantbomb will do a longplay of persona 5 though edit: ah great im gonna watch the entire longplay again arent i. spit on my clit fucked around with this message at 01:19 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 01:10
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Maybe once Atlus removes the embargo.
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May 8, 2017 01:13
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Clarste posted:Well, part of the thing is that in P4 the team literally has nothing to do between cases. They're fundamentally reactive, and can only wait for another victim to show up. By contrast, in P5 the team spends its time between targets looking for a new target, at least half-heartedly. They take the initiative. The Investigation Team is only active when someone's in danger, but the Phantom Thieves are always Phantom Thieves, 24/7. While this is true, I think the game suffered for not having more character stuff in it. In 4 there's always a group activity going on and when one happens it's a big thing that involves all the current party members. The class trip in 5 is a whole lot of nothing. Yeah, it's in service of the plot but it's so transparently so. It's like the game is afraid to have fluff involving the characters and interacting with each other which results in (Late/end game spoilers) Haru coming out of nowhere and being severely under-developed, a dumb nothing arc involving Morgana and the SUI director having more screen time than the primary antagonist, and he doesn't even interact with the goddamn party, ever!. The main plot is definitely a step up and pretty applicable from 4's but I think everything involving the characters is just a step back, even though some of the social links are really good and the gameplay rewards for doing them are top-notch.
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May 8, 2017 01:17
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A Persona 5 LP, but they get around the embargo by filming the players instead as they reenact the events onscreen. At least one of the GiantBomb guys must own a cat, right?
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May 8, 2017 01:22
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Rangpur posted:A Persona 5 LP, but they get around the embargo by filming the players instead as they reenact the events onscreen. At least one of the GiantBomb guys must own a cat, right? His name is Dan, thank you.
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May 8, 2017 01:24
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Or they just do the whole game like a bunch of people have on Youtube/Twitch with no repercussions
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May 8, 2017 01:28
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I do hope they tweak some of the Confidant rewards. Especially Ohya's, but Iwai's could use a bit of a tweak as well since you won't use guns much midgame outside of Knockdown Shot and maybe Haru's gun.
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May 8, 2017 01:37
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Waffleman_ posted:Ahahahaha, so that's the context for that screenshot of Ann! gently caress me! Which screenshot?
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May 8, 2017 01:42
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ApplesandOranges posted:I do hope they tweak some of the Confidant rewards. Especially Ohya's, but Iwai's could use a bit of a tweak as well since you won't use guns much midgame outside of Knockdown Shot and maybe Haru's gun. Yeah the only guns that really matter need to be itemized anyway. e: plus you can only start the link at 4 guts so it comes much later than it would be useful anyway.
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May 8, 2017 01:45
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Harrow posted:I can't understand people who say that P4's cast is stronger than 5's, though, at all. I see it all over the place and I really don't get it. Persona 4 is one of my favorite games, but I think people might either have some serious nostalgia going on for it, or they're prioritizing "wacky fun hangout times with these characters" over "strong characterization." I brought this up before the US release, but it's the group dynamic. P5 is better than P3, but falls short of P4G, in making the group of friends feel like a group of friends. P4G went out of it's way to have everyone interact. Even if it was just for wacky antics, it made the group feel closer and turned the characters into something more than robots standing in one place waiting for you to talk to them. When I finished P4G I was sad that I couldn't hang out with my anime friends anymore, but when I finished P3/P5 it was just over. It's entirely subjective but there you go. I'm not going to judge the link scenes themselves with a critical eye since that's not what's driving my love for P4G. I'm replaying it now and it's definitely not nostalgia - there's a better connection to both the team and the town.
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May 8, 2017 01:46
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pretty sure the atlus embargo laffects Giant Bomb zilch since they have their own website and don't need to host anywherewizard on a water slide posted:I thought the "nothing happens" described in the Hawaii trip in that post ("you see how popular the Phantom Thieves are") was basically the point of the Hawaii trip and is important to the story. That people in America know about the Phantom Thieves is meant to illustrate that the stakes are ramping up and things might be on the verge of getting out of hand, which they do shortly thereafter. dragon_pamcake posted:I could never bring myself to like Yukari when I realized she decided her mom was a slut and hated her at the ripe old age of six. There is no way her judgement in whatever situation her mom was in was unbiased. Also, "Stupei" was the most grating thing. like what the gently caress Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 03:42 on May 8, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 01:48
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I feel like Yukari has to be some masterpiece in RPG writing because of how subversive and realistic she is of a teenage girl compared to other RPG female leads and it's striking how much this throws people
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May 8, 2017 01:51
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Mailer posted:I brought this up before the US release, but it's the group dynamic. P5 is better than P3, but falls short of P4G, in making the group of friends feel like a group of friends. P4G went out of it's way to have everyone interact. Even if it was just for wacky antics, it made the group feel closer and turned the characters into something more than robots standing in one place waiting for you to talk to them. When I finished P4G I was sad that I couldn't hang out with my anime friends anymore, but when I finished P3/P5 it was just over. It's entirely subjective but there you go. On the other hand, I appreciated that P5 didn't make me feel like I was everyone's emotional crutch.
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May 8, 2017 01:50
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corn on the cop posted:On the other hand, I appreciated that P5 didn't make me feel like I was everyone's emotional crutch. It would have been nice if at least one of the days with Futaba socializing didn't involve you having to be there. Give me one free day!
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May 8, 2017 01:54
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Moltrey posted:I feel like Yukari is some masterpiece in RPG writing because of how subversive and realistic she is of a teenage girl compared to other RPG female leads and it's striking how much this throws people I think Yukari and Junpei both are excellent examples of realistic kids in a JRPG setting. I'm kind of eh on the P3 cast as a whole but those two are definitely among my favorites in the series. Good thing they're with you from the beginning too!
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May 8, 2017 01:55
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:If one of the spinoffs is not a cafe management sim, Atlus will have dropped the ball Like managing a butler/host cafe, and you get into wars with the other hosts in shinjuku?
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May 8, 2017 01:58
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Jimbot posted:While this is true, I think the game suffered for not having more character stuff in it. In 4 there's always a group activity going on and when one happens it's a big thing that involves all the current party members. The class trip in 5 is a whole lot of nothing. Yeah, it's in service of the plot but it's so transparently so. It's like the game is afraid to have fluff involving the characters and interacting with each other which results in (Late/end game spoilers) Haru coming out of nowhere and being severely under-developed, a dumb nothing arc involving Morgana and the SUI director having more screen time than the primary antagonist, and he doesn't even interact with the goddamn party, ever!. Perhaps due to being a bit more tightly paced than P4 (even though it has a longer build to the main plot), P5 just doesn't have much goofy shenanigans with the party. This is a bit of a double edged sword because some of the P4 group hijinx scenes were garbage (like the camp or the culture festival and subsequent hot springs visit) but a lot of the others were good and did a lot to establish a group dynamic. P5 mostly relies on the group chats and other smaller scenes to do that, and I think P4 ends up having a more developed group relationship even though I like P5's characters more. On the other hand The Phantom Thieves have way better individual relationships with each other. Like, I can tell you way more about Ryuji and Ann's friendship and about how they interact with each other than I can about Chie and Yukiko, and those 2 are supposed to be way closer. I know they're besties and everything but I'd have a rough time explaining how they express that. The P5 cast have some really strong individual relationships and it does a lot for the characters imo. It's not even just within the party. Like, Sojiro gets scenes with a couple of members of the gang and Makoto and her sister have a relationship that is developed throughout the game. I definitely think the P5 cast are a cut above previous entries even though the group dynamic is weaker.
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