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jokes posted:That is almost universally classified as a monopoly in any industry, but it varies according to legal authority. In the UK it's a much lower threshold. Exactly.
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Apr 11, 2019 05:11
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I'm sitting at the fence right now regarding EGS, as there are only two games they currently have that I want, one is in early access, the other one isn't projected to come out until September, I can wait and see how things develop. That being said, as a potential customer I feel that EGS' isn't offering much that works for my benefits. Growing up in the 90's, I've been through the console war periods where console makers made console exclusives to lock down customer bases, forcing us to shell out more money to buy consoles with games we want. The day when publishers stopped doing exclusives and just port games to all consoles was a huge saving passed to consumers. Further to that I also have the double curse of being into import games : having to shell out more money to either mod my console or worse, buy an imported console. I don't want to go back to the days of console exclusives or regional locking that EGS is trying to implement, on a PC that traditionally isn't known for either. The great thing about Steam is that it's more than just a store : it's an eco system that offer community forums, mod supports, trading card system, and so on. Right now the only thing that Epic has to offer is its exclusives : some of which are explicitely poached from Steam (i.e. Anno 1800, which will honor Steam pre-orders up until April 16th, but Phoenix Point will only be available via EGS which, ironically, screwed the early backers located in China because EGS isn't available there). I've read elsewhere that some people wonders whether the 12% cut EGS takes is actually sustainable, I don't know the economy of digital retail to comment much, but what I've read is that they accept very few payment methods outside of major credit cards because some of them are charging too much transaction fee, so the assumption is that EGS is running on razor thin margin and backed by 10Cents' war chest. And like most industry disrupters, eventually they will find ways to monetize, at whose detriment is anyone's guess. So I wait and see.
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Apr 11, 2019 05:17
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Det_no posted:I hate this poo poo. I have posted about it elsewhere but the fact the game was cheaper in the US but the same price or in some cases even more expensive for the rest of the world is a bullshit game of optics I imagine Epic is all too happy to play. To me it feels like Epic is fully aware the vast majority of game coverage is based in America and so most media outlets will be happy to report the benefits for americans without bothering to mention everything else. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has shittier prices not only because these magical discounts only exist for the US but because Epic is all too happy to make people pay extra for using certain payment methods. Historically Steam has always covered that kind of thing out of their own pocket but that is seldom mentioned in the coverage of this little feud. It's a very "gently caress you got mine" kind of thing. I think their target demo is just literally: the legions of kids that play fortnite. Unfortunately, those kids don't give a poo poo about other games.
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Apr 11, 2019 05:24
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symphoniccacophony posted:I've read elsewhere that some people wonders whether the 12% cut EGS takes is actually sustainable, I don't know the economy of digital retail to comment much, but what I've read is that they accept very few payment methods outside of major credit cards because some of them are charging too much transaction fee, so the assumption is that EGS is running on razor thin margin and backed by 10Cents' war chest. No, they just pass the costs onto consumers. https://www.resetera.com/threads/epic-store-and-12-cut.110333/ https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1091025939109199879 https://twitter.com/galyonkin/status/1083860234505019392
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Apr 11, 2019 05:25
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That is very much a killer in Australia where they do not have our currency and thus will be considered for the developing tax. Give an idea Metro on the store is $64.99 US, which is $90.80 AUD as of right now, and that is for the base addition, there is also the question on how much they fee you, going by the link I'm going to assume 5%, that is $4.54, Now than is that in US or AUD, if in US it is really $6.34 That is $97.14 AUD on the epic store, for a new AAA game, now going to steam and looking at another new AAA game, Sekiro costs 89.95 AUD. It might be a good deal in the US, but for everyone else, they are getting screwed
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Apr 11, 2019 05:47
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What I don't get is why are people so goddamn hung up on them not having a shopping cart? There's barely any games on there yet, are you really that desperate for the ability to buy more than one game at a time? Seems to me like its just an easy dunk, but does anyone actually care about that poo poo? It's not really necessary yet.
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Apr 11, 2019 11:22
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Because the shopping cart feature allows you to buy multiple games at once so you credit card company doesn't flag your purchases as suspicious and shut down your card.
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Apr 11, 2019 12:14
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Nephthys posted:What I don't get is why are people so goddamn hung up on them not having a shopping cart? There's barely any games on there yet, are you really that desperate for the ability to buy more than one game at a time? It's a feature coming as default with every ready-made online store package, it's just that ubiquitous and easy to do. You'd have to actively try not to have it. That, and registering accounts without email verification deserve all the dunking
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Apr 11, 2019 12:40
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David D. Davidson posted:Because the shopping cart feature allows you to buy multiple games at once so you credit card company doesn't flag your purchases as suspicious and shut down your card. While I agree it is something a store should have, what the hell are people doing where this actually happens? When do you need to buy a bunch of different games all at once?
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Apr 11, 2019 12:47
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Comrayn posted:While I agree it is something a store should have, what the hell are people doing where this actually happens? When do you need to buy a bunch of different games all at once? Steam Sales made Steam incredibly popular when it was getting off the ground and for years. Vietnom nom nom posted:There's just no way a new entrant is going to compete with Steams inertia other than that though. With the size of people's existing game libraries on Steam, if you offer people the opportunity to buy it on two stores, they'll just choose Steam, every time. This is crap. The main thing EGS has accomplished is pissing off their potential customer base and you’re just making excuses for launching a vastly inferior and far shittier storefront because they can throw around Fortnite dollars. quote:Steam absolutely needs some competition, 30% is absurd especially considering how much cheaper live services are to run in the era of cloud computing. Obviously people are right to be wary of Epic (Tim Sweeney seems like your typical libertarian chud), but someone needs to go through the expense and pain of building a store from nothing if we're going to have a viable competitor. Yeah and EGS should compete by... making a storefront that actually challenges the issues with Steam right now and actually innovate, instead of making GBS threads all over the customer and going “but but competition is good!” If Metro or these other exclusives launched same day as Steam, Epic knows they’d eat poo poo because their storefront sucks poo poo. Does it take time? Yes. And that’s Fortnite dollars that should be spent developing a storefront that works and gets people to come to their platform - not pissing off their potential install base and building a negative reputation. Long term this is a net negative for Epic trying to force their way into the market and souring everyone on something the market needs. Taintrunner fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Apr 11, 2019 |
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Apr 11, 2019 12:57
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First gotta lol at the guy who said 80% of market share is not a monopolyTaintrunner posted:Steam Sales made Steam incredibly popular when it was getting off the ground and for years. How many drat games are you buying at once even during Steam's summer sale? Yeah this can come up but it's not some huge loving issue. Again though yes a shopping cart is something a store should have and they need to get going adding some basic stuff like this. Gonna drop this because the disagreement is just how big of an issue this is. I think everyone agrees it should be added. Taintrunner posted:This is crap. The main thing EGS has accomplished is pissing off their potential customer base and you’re just making excuses for launching a vastly inferior and far shittier storefront because they can throw around Fortnite dollars. Can you show me where Epic Games has been "making GBS threads all over the customer"? Yeah the store is barebones as hell which makes it kind of suck but where does this turn into an attack on the customer? People launch crappy products all the time and it doesn't piss me off I just don't use them. Well I have to use this one to play x game, oh well I am mildly inconvenienced. Taintrunner posted:If Metro or these other exclusives launched same day as Steam, Epic knows they’d eat poo poo because their storefront sucks poo poo. Does it take time? Yes. And that’s Fortnite dollars that should be spent developing a storefront that works and gets people to come to their platform - not pissing off their potential install base and building a negative reputation. What i the world makes you think they are pulling store development dollars to pay off people for exclusives? And is money for exclusives not being spent to get people on the platform? Man every argument comes back to "Fortnite dollars" we get it the True PC Gamer hates Fortnite but gently caress who really cares. I want to see someone bring up the dreaded unreal engine dollars. Whatever "negative reputation" Epic has seems to be decided from the success of their game with children no lovely game store needed. And how the hell are they supposed to enter the market to compete with steam without getting exclusives? Like you said no one would use it. Even if they managed to miraculously launch a perfect steam clone with all the same features no one would use it because they already have steam. Epic needs to work on their store and add more features. I hope they do this. I hope the store gets better and succeeds so the publisher's middle man cut goes down and I have a good alternative to Steam, where the current #1 New and Trending game is something tagged "gore", "violent", "sexual content" where all screenshots are just anime characters standing there with a dialogue box under them. Or maybe it forces Valve to get their rear end in gear and I don't have to sift through dozens of shovelware titles to see what's actually on sale or get bombarded with spammers if one of my friends joins a public group. Where I get lost is that I see the Epic store as is and think "cool they are pushing their way into the market to compete with steam and seem to be committed to doing so, hopefully it gets better". On the other hand you have people who see the crappy launcher and just get mad and hope it dies. Then there's the psychopaths review bombing poo poo on steam over a free launcher and screaming at developers. Hell that reminds me maybe some competition will get Valve to actually do something about the frothing gamer mob's ability to make their review system worthless too.
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Apr 11, 2019 13:51
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Comrayn posted:Hell that reminds me maybe some competition will get Valve to actually do something about the frothing gamer mob's ability to make their review system worthless too. ? Have you not been paying attention? The borderlands review bombing just trigger Value's first use of the "off-topic" tag. quote:In a statement sent to Ars Technica just now, Valve's Doug Lombardi says that "after a review of current review activity on Borderlands titles, the decision was made to tag the franchise for off-topic reviews on Steam, effective immediately. As a result, user reviews submitted while the titles are tagged will not count towards the games' Review Scores. User reviews written during the tagged period will still be accessible and users can choose to include these reviews in the Review Score by changing their preferences." https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/04/steams-review-bomb-fix-is-so-far-failing-its-first-big-test/
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Apr 11, 2019 14:01
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Taintrunner posted:Steam Sales made Steam incredibly popular when it was getting off the ground and for years. Steams user based was generated off forced installs for popular games, first through their own games, then through Steamworks. This Hagiography of Valve poo poo has to go. Pirate Jet posted:Tim Sweeney is worth 7.1 billion dollars. That 90% of the industry you're referring to are hard monopolies. You can't compete with the App Store outside of Jail breaking your phone. The idea that a bit of middleware is worth ~20% of revenue is absurd. Entire game engines license for under 5% of Revenue.
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Apr 11, 2019 14:19
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BexGu posted:? Lol I guess this counts as something. Maybe next they can do something that will actually make a difference.
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Apr 11, 2019 14:37
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more like the Epic FAIL Store!!!
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Apr 11, 2019 14:41
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Comrayn posted:Lol I guess this counts as something. Maybe next they can do something that will actually make a difference. Why don't you think the "off-topics" tag won't make a difference? The reviews are still there for people to read but they don't actually count towards the overall score. That's basically the only middle ground with people still being able to write reviews/feedback without effecting the quick look feedback reception of a game.
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Apr 11, 2019 14:49
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Comrayn posted:Lol I guess this counts as something. Maybe next they can do something that will actually make a difference. It literally just did, but I guess that would mean actually reading the article or even just visiting the Borderlands 2 store page.
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Apr 11, 2019 14:52
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I love waking up to see people defend not having basic online store functionality like a shopping cart lmao
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Apr 11, 2019 15:28
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Comrayn posted:Also someone else posted discord closed their store? I didn’t realize and that’s too bad. I bought something for minion masters on there back in December I think. Made sense to me for discord to try to push into steam’s market since everyone is already running their software. The purchase games part was passed back to individuals discords. The official discords, hopefully started by the makers of said game, basically pay a fee to enable a purchase page and sell their game from there. If you go to the Crosscode server, you'll see an example. Finding the server is kind of painful at the moment, I think they expect you to scroll all the way to the Server Discovery tab at the bottom of your server list and then you just have to hope the game you're searching for has their official discord selling the game. It's all very beta, Discord is very much still a start-up compared to the others.
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Apr 11, 2019 15:43
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I love waking up to see people defend not having basic online store functionality like a shopping cart lmao "the store has barely any games, why would it need a shopping cart!?" is a galaxy-brain level defense
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Apr 11, 2019 16:01
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BexGu posted:Why don't you think the "off-topics" tag won't make a difference? The reviews are still there for people to read but they don't actually count towards the overall score. That's basically the only middle ground with people still being able to write reviews/feedback without effecting the quick look feedback reception of a game. Valve should drag gamers out into the street and shoot them imo
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Apr 11, 2019 16:14
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Comrayn posted:Valve should drag gamers out into the street and shoot them imo Remember, if they shoot 80% of gamers they won't have a monopoly on shooting gamers.
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Apr 11, 2019 16:24
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Aside from their absolutely terrible development practices, I don't really have any issue with the Epic Games Store right now. I already try and buy my games away from Steam when they aren't tightly integrated into the workshop just to spread business around. That being said, isn't the greatest defense of EGS that it gives developers more money and proposes better curation? Based on the record we have now I think that would be terrifying to anyone, because if EGS can pull exclusives that actually earn a lot more money for the developer then it's going to screw over everyone who can't get on EGS because of the curation. Then take a look at what isn't getting on EGS. For example: Tropico 6 Sekiro Out of the Park Baseball Devil May Cry 5 and there are some recent release games that are available on multiple stores, like Outward or My Time At Portia, so it's not like you can't get a game on EGS that's also available on Steam/elsewhere. Maybe there are some behind the scene distribution agreements that didn't work out to get games on the EGS and maybe Epic wants to control growth a bit to not let just every game they deem worth on the store right now, but at the end of the day there are a lot of great games released since the Epic Game Store stabilized that aren't on the store and almost certainly would like to be just for the extra cut on sales that happen on EGS versus Steam. If we get to the point where other stores can match Epic's cut then great, but if we don't then we could be in a scenario where a lot of people start making games that they think will have a better chance of getting through Epic's curation. Personally I'd rather have to ignore edgelord game attempt #58 and anime titty game #101 so long as it means I get games like Weedcraft Inc (at least in theory, haven't actually tried it personally yet) and Risk of Rain 2. Edit: Comrayn posted:While I agree it is something a store should have, what the hell are people doing where this actually happens? When do you need to buy a bunch of different games all at once? DLC. Have fun buying any game where you want the DLC along with it on the store. I'm pretty sure Epic would refuse to sell a Paradox game until they get a shopping cart just for the imagined hell scape that would be. nessin fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Apr 11, 2019 |
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Apr 11, 2019 16:26
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EGS and discord? No thanks, i use teamspeak and steam.
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Apr 11, 2019 16:31
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Comrayn posted:Valve should drag gamers out into the street and shoot them imo Lol you'r posting on a dead gay forum that you payed money for to talk about games. You'r a gamer.
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Apr 11, 2019 16:33
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BexGu posted:Lol you'r posting on a dead gay forum that you payed money for to talk about games. You'r a gamer. As a gamer I agree with him.
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Apr 11, 2019 16:35
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jokes posted:Remember, if they shoot 80% of gamers they won't have a monopoly on shooting gamers. 
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Apr 11, 2019 16:50
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nessin posted:That being said, isn't the greatest defense of EGS that it gives developers more money and proposes better curation? I doubt Epic solves curation other than a byproduct of having less on their shop.
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Apr 11, 2019 16:50
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Rascyc posted:Think of it this way: under Steam, the game developers were ultimately paying the premium for all of those Steam features. Under Epic, nobody is really paying for the features so the devs get their money back and consumers pay the same, the features end mostly up not existing. We should get the bare bones features eventually and they have a road map for that I guess. Are you saying Epic will then bump up their rate after they have a fully functional store? If not, then how does your statement fit in with the non-Steam stores like GoG, Gamersgate, Humble, etc...? quote:I doubt Epic solves curation other than a byproduct of having less on their shop. Again, as I pointed out, the current record doesn't really justify that stance. We are only 4 months in so it's impossible to predict the future, but we have what we have now.
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Apr 11, 2019 17:01
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BexGu posted:Lol you'r posting on a dead gay forum that you payed money for to talk about games. You'r a gamer.  is this supposed to be bad
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Apr 11, 2019 17:16
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It sucks op
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Apr 11, 2019 17:17
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Rascyc posted:Think of it this way: under Steam, the game developers were ultimately paying the premium for all of those Steam features. Under Epic, nobody is really paying for the features so the devs get their money back and consumers pay the same, the features end mostly up not existing. We should get the bare bones features eventually and they have a road map for that I guess. Epic can pay the devs more because they aren't spending nearly the money Valve is to support the Steam platform. And if they want to stay anywhere close to profitable with the store, they won't have all the things Steam has. I dunno, I can't see the Epic Store putting Steam out of business but maybe I'm wrong. If they throw enough money at it, maybe all the devs wil go to Epic and we'll be stuck with a barebones experience.
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Apr 11, 2019 17:18
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nessin posted:Are you saying Epic will then bump up their rate after they have a fully functional store? If not, then how does your statement fit in with the non-Steam stores like GoG, Gamersgate, Humble, etc...? There's some posts earlier in the thread about dev vs publisher and how less popular indies are still going to get screwed at the end of the day and that's probably true. I think that's why itch.io is getting pushed a lot in other communities and predates Epic, they were already getting screwed. But I think we're agreeing with each other on the curation thing, I don't have high hopes for Epic improving that situation. Like the way I view this is that Epic is good for "some developers", transparent for your every day consumer, sucky for enthusiasts.
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Apr 11, 2019 17:21
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This game store doesn't seem very Epic to me.
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Apr 11, 2019 17:35
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They already have Detroit so the curation argument's been thrown out the window.
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Apr 11, 2019 17:39
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Mayveena posted:Epic can pay the devs more because they aren't spending nearly the money Valve is to support the Steam platform. And if they want to stay anywhere close to profitable with the store, they won't have all the things Steam has. I dunno, I can't see the Epic Store putting Steam out of business but maybe I'm wrong. If they throw enough money at it, maybe all the devs wil go to Epic and we'll be stuck with a barebones experience. I mean that is really it: Not counting the lack of features for users, what does Epic Store offer for developers in terms of features? Right now it is a sack of cash but does it provide anything listed here in the Steamwork API Page? Like when the first Borderlands came out will I have to use a third party app to do matchmaking for Borderlands 3?
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Apr 11, 2019 17:43
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Crabtree posted:They already have Detroit so the curation argument's been thrown out the window. FACTS
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Apr 11, 2019 17:48
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Concerned Citizen posted:Exactly. Forgive me for being American, I guess, but here the definition is that of a company that has exclusive control over a good or service and imposes restrictions to prevent competitors from happening. There’s nothing stopping competitors like GoG and itch.io from popping up alongside Steam, and Valve doesn’t enforce exclusive control over how any game other than the ones they developed themselves is sold, unlike maybe another certain competitor. Essentially the difference between “practically a monopoly” and “literally a monopoly” is being nitpicked. Not interested, sorry. Xae posted:That 90% of the industry you're referring to are hard monopolies. You can't compete with the App Store outside of Jail breaking your phone. Last I checked the Google Play Store and the Microsoft Store both take 70% on non-subscription purchases and aren’t the only ways you can install apps on Android and Windows, respectively. (Microsoft announced a larger share for devs in June 2018, but that share policy missed its January release date with little comment and no new date.) Classifying Steam as “a bit of middleware” is ludicrously reductive when it’s an entire social platform, content delivery service through both streaming and downloads, VR software suite, etc. If you don’t like those features, that’s fine, I’m not gonna sit here and defend the Steam forums, but maybe the answer to those features being lackluster is to improve upon them and not pull their funding entirely, considering Epic is trying that strategy now and is finding themselves unable to handle even transaction fees for international payment methods.
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Apr 11, 2019 18:19
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Pirate Jet posted:Do you honestly think Steam is a monopoly? Hold on, are you saying that one huge, ubiquitous, platform representing 72% of sales for games on that platform (which is almost all games), is not demonstrating enormous market power? If not, then why are you even bothering to argue this point?
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Apr 11, 2019 18:26
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Gammymajams posted:Hold on, are you saying that one huge, ubiquitous, platform representing 72% of sales for games on that platform (which is almost all games), is not demonstrating enormous market power? If not, then why are you even bothering to argue this point? 72% of games on Steam are sold through its built-in store. That’s not the total of PC games sold period.
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Apr 11, 2019 18:28
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