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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:How is the Neutral payoff compared to the Chaos one? Is it just the bunch of named generics that's the real pull there or... In the PSX version, neutral was the only way to get all the shamans since the way to do so on a different route (chaos?) was bugged. Not that it matters too much since the forbidden magic was outright worse than dragon magic.
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Aug 17, 2022 13:41
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Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:How is the Neutral payoff compared to the Chaos one? Is it just the bunch of named generics that's the real pull there or... Not great. I mean you get an actual zombie on your team but he sucks. Neutral was the only playthrough I hadn't completed so I figured I'd give it a shot. Also Denam is a wishy-washy little bitch on the route. No wonder Arycelle has no time for him.
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Aug 17, 2022 14:00
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victrix posted:per action is so loving bad and I do not understand why it keeps getting used in trpgs Beat me to it. Trying to get a new party member to catch up by repeatedly skipping the turn of his 11 mates is not fun. If the player is going to have to play catch-up, and that may be inevitable, it should be via doing things efficiently. I'm probably not going to like the leveling system regardless of what they do for the reason that it will make leveling a new character/class/whatever very tedious. I don't see why they couldn't make a new c/c/w who joins the group be the average level of all existing toons, or something like that.
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Aug 17, 2022 15:35
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There's a new interview about the remake in Japanese. Some new info that stood out to me: -The Union level you can see in some screenshots is a level cap that goes up as you progress through the game. It sounds like you can (optionally?) ignore it when you World back to battles you've already completed. -Training battles are back. Also enemies can sometimes drop consumables that grant EXP? It sounds like they wanted to make it as painless as possible to catch units up level-wise. No word on whether experience is granted for each action or only at the end of battles, unless machine translation butchered that detail somehow. -All the story content added to the PSP version is back, but it sounds like no new story content is being added. Matsuno rewrote some of the dialog to better accommodate voice acting. Every line of dialog is voiced, as well. No word on whether the English script has seen any changes. -A bunch of skills were removed, but I think everyone expected that with only 4 skills slots. -There's a 2x speed toggle in combat.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:24
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En Garde Motherfuckers posted:-A bunch of skills were removed, but I think everyone expected that with only 4 skills slots. God, I'm glad. There was a lot of extra, unnecessary crap in there. Attenuate/Augment [Element] (not necessary, could be combined), [Whatever]tology (species-based attack boost), the individual boosts to individual stats (e.g. Fortify, Spellcraft, Truestrike, Spellstrike, Dodge, etc). Even worse, if I recall correctly, you had to have the correct elemental magic skill equipped to use magic of that element. There's just a lot of unnecessary bloat. This makes me wonder if we're back to 6 elements (Light, Dark, Water, Wind, Earth, Fire) or if lightning and ice are in again. Lightning had some cool stuff, but ice was pretty awful.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:51
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Prowler posted:This makes me wonder if we're back to 6 elements (Light, Dark, Water, Wind, Earth, Fire) or if lightning and ice are in again. Lightning had some cool stuff, but ice was pretty awful. Some of the screenshots they've put out have characters with ice and lightning as their innate element, so they're definitely back.
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Aug 17, 2022 18:11
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En Garde Motherfuckers posted:There's a new interview about the remake in Japanese. Some new info that stood out to me: I don't think per battle or per action will matter as much if training battles are back because you can just throw new and low level characters into training to get them up to speed. A level cap based on progress is weird, but I guess they don't want to let people just ignore it outright and do the 2 unarmed cleric trick to make a level 50 bulldozer party as soon as you have two heal spells. It'll be curious to see how generous that cap is compared to enemy level.
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Aug 17, 2022 18:37
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Leveling individual party members is super annoying. Just have a party level. MC levels up, everyone levels up. Solves class changing and training problems.
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Aug 17, 2022 21:59
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Naramyth posted:Leveling individual party members is super annoying. Just have a party level. MC levels up, everyone levels up. Solves class changing and training problems. Agreed. This is what I would do in the BG games as well... any time a character joins the party, their exp is set to the main character's. Simple.
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Aug 17, 2022 22:07
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Tall Tale Teller posted:Not great. I mean you get an actual zombie on your team but he sucks. Neutral was the only playthrough I hadn't completed so I figured I'd give it a shot. Law Denam is the only Denam that has an interesting or compelling character arc. He is a completely reactive doormat in both Neutral and Chaos. Especially Neutral though.
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Aug 17, 2022 23:31
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Naramyth posted:Leveling individual party members is super annoying. Just have a party level. MC levels up, everyone levels up. Solves class changing and training problems. this sort of thing may be trivial to mod (assuming it's actually annoying anyway)
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Aug 17, 2022 23:51
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Captain Oblivious posted:Law Denam is the only Denam that has an interesting or compelling character arc. He is a completely reactive doormat in both Neutral and Chaos. Especially Neutral though. Law is the most interesting route by a country mile, best Vyce too.
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Aug 18, 2022 17:00
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CottonWolf posted:Law is the most interesting route by a country mile, best Vyce too. People always say that and I guess I should really try Law if I get the new version of this game, but I have a strong aversion to agreeing to do war crimes
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Aug 18, 2022 18:50
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Item Getter posted:People always say that and I guess I should really try Law if I get the new version of this game, but I have a strong aversion to agreeing to do war crimes Ditto. I've done Chaos on SNES (in Japanese) and again on PSX in English so I'd understand more of what was going on, and started Neutral on PSP, but I've never touched Law for exactly that reason.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:17
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I can understand calling Denim a static character on some routes but "reactive doormat" seems like a misnomer given some of the reactions in question.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:25
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LEONARD: “put on the uniform and chop grandma’s head off unless you want Gargastan to continue wiping its boots on Walsta like it’s Valeria’s doormat.” > I’m through being treated like a doormat! I will kill the elderly. > No; I will not kill the elderly. Walsta IS a doormat, and I am proud to play my part in keeping Branta’s foyer free of unsightly boot-prints.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:57
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Bonaventure posted:LEONARD: “put on the uniform and chop grandma’s head off unless you want Gargastan to continue wiping its boots on Walsta like it’s Valeria’s doormat.” Truly it is only bootlicks and cowards that have real issues with going only with a resistance movement that already buddied up with the fuckers who put their town to the torch but has decided that the only way to save their people is if they kill them first.
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Aug 18, 2022 21:37
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Actually, the only reason anyone should commit war crimes is if there's a cute anime spear waifu to play with afterwards
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Aug 18, 2022 23:52
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Item Getter posted:People always say that and I guess I should really try Law if I get the new version of this game, but I have a strong aversion to agreeing to do war crimes That’s the entire point of Law route. Chaos Denam and Neutral Denam mostly just dither around and wait for events to put a solution in their laps. Law Denam has to learn that while yes you do need to proactively seek out solutions, no the ends do not justify the means. At no point does the narrative let him off for war crimes.
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Aug 18, 2022 23:55
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Captain Oblivious posted:That’s the entire point of Law route. Chaos Denam and Neutral Denam mostly just dither around and wait for events to put a solution in their laps. Law Denam has to learn that while yes you do need to proactively seek out solutions, no the ends do not justify the means. At no point does the narrative let him off for war crimes. I feel like this is another reason TO has aged so well It was telling a story (stories, really, insanity) that was considerably over the heads of many of its players - but years later it holds up incredibly well for that same reason
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Aug 19, 2022 00:00
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Please marry me Ravness I would commit every crime against humanity for you, at the same time,
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Aug 19, 2022 00:05
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As cool as Ravness is I never found her overly useful.
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Aug 19, 2022 00:16
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what I'm saying is I want this to sell millions so Matsuno can team up with YoshiP on ogre battle act 8
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Aug 19, 2022 00:21
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victrix posted:what I'm saying is I want this to sell millions so Matsuno can team up with YoshiP on ogre battle act 8 Yeah! At the same time I got the impressions from their collabs that the japanese were not fond of his style of storytelling
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Aug 19, 2022 00:22
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Let Ishikawa write act 8, complete the ffxiv takeover
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Aug 19, 2022 00:53
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Playing Knight of Lodis, one of my units got an Archangel Medal and she meets the stat requirements (HP/MP/STR/AGI/INT/L-Alignment) to become one. I tried to change her to it but there's no option in the class field, so I looked up a guide. Well, after looking it up, I still have no idea what the gently caress I'm actually supposed to do to make her one. I can't even save scum it because I can't tell if the RNG rolls when she dies or when she's resurrected. 
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Aug 20, 2022 18:06
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Chillgamesh posted:Playing Knight of Lodis, one of my units got an Archangel Medal and she meets the stat requirements (HP/MP/STR/AGI/INT/L-Alignment) to become one. I tried to change her to it but there's no option in the class field, so I looked up a guide. If it works like it does in original LUCT it's a chance that a unit that meets the requirements will auto-revive as an angel knight when killed in a non training mode battle.
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Aug 20, 2022 18:22
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En Garde Motherfuckers posted:If it works like it does in original LUCT it's a chance that a unit that meets the requirements will auto-revive as an angel knight when killed in a non training mode battle. I tried save scumming on death again and it worked this time after about ten state loads. How the hell were you supposed to find this out legitimately?
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Aug 20, 2022 19:49
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Chillgamesh posted:I tried save scumming on death again and it worked this time after about ten state loads. How the hell were you supposed to find this out legitimately? The chance of transformation in LUCT seems pretty high- it took me like 2 tries on the playthrough I'm doing now to get it to happen- and because there's nothing like the emblem requirement pretty much any lawful generic female unit will be eligible by mid-late chapter 3. It wouldn't be preposterous to get one accidentally eventually, and iirc the class description once you have one spells out exactly how it happens. In Knight of Lodis I guess you're supposed to know how to get one in LUCT and try similar conditions until it works, or just get really lucky with a unit that keeps dying all the time but you decide to drag along anyway for whatever reason.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:16
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Chillgamesh posted:I tried save scumming on death again and it worked this time after about ten state loads. How the hell were you supposed to find this out legitimately? You're supposed to luck into it, just like you're supposed to luck into stuff like the Princess transformation item in Ogre Battle.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:57
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Zurai posted:You're supposed to luck into it, just like you're supposed to luck into stuff like the Princess transformation item in Ogre Battle. In other words, they wanted you to buy the drat strategy guide (said the dumb bastard who has a colllection of 100s of them).
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Aug 20, 2022 22:10
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Naramyth posted:Leveling individual party members is super annoying. Just have a party level. MC levels up, everyone levels up. Solves class changing and training problems. This sounds like an even worse version of the PSP leveling system.
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Aug 21, 2022 19:22
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While Ravness wasn't super useful, the other new Law recruit was incredibly powerful. At least with LUCT, the neutral route let you keep Arycelle, but you do have to actively work to do so since it bottoms out her loyalty. It sounds like they'll be keeping that in the remake. I wish they'd at least give you Leonard on that route so you'd get someone actually useful considering you miss out on a number of other units.
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Aug 21, 2022 21:06
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Kagon posted:While Ravness wasn't super useful, the other new Law recruit was incredibly powerful. "Gee Law Route Denam, how come you get to have two dommy mommies?"
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Aug 21, 2022 21:30
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Evil Fluffy posted:This sounds like an even worse version of the PSP leveling system. I’m what world having underleveled classes or characters is actually fun? Grinding in training is just getting things to the same level as your MC with no respect for the players time. I’d also cut all growths based on being a specific class. Just bake those bonuses into being the actual class. Also turn off animations
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Aug 21, 2022 22:44
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Kagon posted:While Ravness wasn't super useful, the other new Law recruit was incredibly powerful. Your post reminded me... does the loyalty system in the PSP game serve any useful gameplay purpose? From everything I have seen it is either utterly inconsequential or a massive annoyance that interferes with keeping characters around.
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Aug 22, 2022 00:36
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Kagon posted:While Ravness wasn't super useful, the other new Law recruit was incredibly powerful. Sure would be nice if the remaster/remake gets rid of the oversight where if you first do Chaos then Chariot back to Neutral she doesn’t try to leave, speaking of.
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Aug 22, 2022 01:57
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Last Celebration posted:Sure would be nice if the remaster/remake gets rid of the oversight where if you first do Chaos then Chariot back to Neutral she doesn’t try to leave, speaking of. My understanding is that you can keep her as long as you kill her off when she is an npc.
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Aug 22, 2022 02:06
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Naramyth posted:I’m what world having underleveled classes or characters is actually fun? Grinding in training is just getting things to the same level as your MC with no respect for the players time. Grinding in training is getting things to the same level as your highest-level character. Which isn't always the MC. Also, if you don't want to grind in training, don't. Individual levels allows you to customize your characters more by leveling them in the classes you want instead of taking some random growth rate. As for removing character growths completely, sorry, that's a poo poo idea. I like that characters who have trained extensively in physical combat classes are better at doing physical damage and worse at doing magical damage. It's both verisimilitude and encourages actually thinking about your characters' builds instead of every character being whatever you want it to be at any given time. It gives choices weight.
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Aug 22, 2022 02:12
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Naramyth posted:I’m what world having underleveled classes or characters is actually fun? Grinding in training is just getting things to the same level as your MC with no respect for the players time. Everyone not being the exact same level isn't a big deal and yeah low level characters catch up pretty fast in PSX Tactics Ogre. Tying stat games to a class and nothing else is bland as hell. You're just describing the system the PSP version used, with some arguably worse changes, and they're moving back away from because it was terrible in practice.
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Aug 22, 2022 02:18
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