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...I don't think I would agree with you re. Kos and Ebiertas - going by the description for the (in spoilers cause I can't recall if it is in the LP yet or not) the umbilical cord desctiption; isn't it said that Old Ones cannot have children? Edit: God, I just realised the second form of the fight with Micolash - it resembles an actual nightmare! You know, the one where you are trying to catch up with something, but are always getting lost/hindered by outside forces! Edit edit: Whoops, pointed out later in the vid. Samovar fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 21:09
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Samovar posted:...I don't think I would agree with you re. Kos and Ebiertas - going by the description for the (in spoilers cause I can't recall if it is in the LP yet or not) the umbilical cord desctiption; isn't it said that Old Ones cannot have children? That's a good point. It could just be that Ebrietas is the daughter of the overall Cosmos, which is somehow a Great One or maybe where they come from.
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Mar 18, 2016 21:57
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notlupus posted:That's a good point. It could just be that Ebrietas is the daughter of the overall Cosmos, which is somehow a Great One or maybe where they come from. Probably the case. Take it for what you will, but apparently the direct translation from Japanese for "cosmos" was more like "stars and suns and celestial entities" or something similar and not directly referencing cosmos. Who knows?
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Mar 18, 2016 22:47
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Kos and cosmos is an English pun that isn't in the base game I think?
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Mar 18, 2016 23:17
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All dialogue in the game is English even in the original version (something that holds true for Demon's/Dark Souls as well), so wordplay with Kos/Cosmos is well within the realm of possibility.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:51
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Update: 18. Nightmare of Mensis cont. I've been sick for the past five days, so I've missed an update. I'll be releasing at least one video a day till next Tuesday to make up for it. Here's the first.
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Mar 24, 2016 13:36
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Tarezax posted:All dialogue in the game is English even in the original version (something that holds true for Demon's/Dark Souls as well), so wordplay with Kos/Cosmos is well within the realm of possibility. Interestingly Bloodborne actually has Japanese voice acting, and whilst Kos is probably the same in both games Ebrietas title is not daughter of the cosmos in the Japanese writing, it's hoshi no musume which translates directly to daughter of the stars. So yes Kos/cosmos is a clever english word play it probably isn't important lorewise. On the Ludwig's Holy Blade it's the perfect quality build weapon as it scales equally on both strength and skill. Also there is better frenzy resist gear, Djura's set is all better bar the hat. Also I suspect Winter Lantern's are purely creatures made of nightmares, specifically the Nightmares of Hunters as they are made of the Doll and a bunch of messengers. Considering later information they're probably specifically Nightmares made from Gehrman's feelings about the Hunter's Dream. Interestingly you can get to the bridge without dropping the Mother Brain, it's a really loving bad idea of course. The gate key is in Micolash' boss room somewhere and the gate connects to said hallway. There is a way to learn about the movement in make contact, the Doll reacts to gestures but in that particular case only does so when the movement occurs. It probably is saying you are moon scented, as a bunch of other characters also say so. It's also probable that your brain looks like the Mother Brain. There's a good lore reason for the Shadows being here. It involves an older meaning of the word shadow. Those are not Chikage's at all I'm pretty sure, if anything the Chikage was designed based on their shape and something else from the dungeons.
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Mar 24, 2016 14:19
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notlupus posted:Update: 18. Nightmare of Mensis cont. So hey, you might find it interesting what those brain-monsters are (the lady ones, not the Mother Brain...one). Visually, their heads are something like a Castlevania Legion/Granfaloon of Bath Messengers--they're just a mashup of bubbling eyeballs and messengers. Here's one up close!  Beautiful. They got nicknamed Braintrusts by the community, though apparently the dev name for them were Winter Lanterns. I don't think the brainladies are necessarily people, given they're an amalgamation of messengers. Though their outfit has very damning implications about one character. Also their singing creeps me the gently caress out. Really the biggest plot twist of this entire game is that Insight is just a really bad pun about literal eyes on the inside. And America's focus not on burger, or combo meals, but pure bacon, brings me to despair.
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Mar 24, 2016 16:15
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They also only show up in the Nightmare areas and even then usually in out of the way places, which is nice.
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Mar 24, 2016 18:19
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I do like how there were all those corpses impaled with the frenzy lances with the Great One's knowledge. THAT'S good story-telling.
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Mar 24, 2016 20:55
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It's worth remembering, by the way, that the hunters and inhabitants of Yahar'gul were preying on other people in Yharna,. The likely implication is that the Choir were on board with horrible experiments, but not "kidnapping random people off the street to kill them for an evil nightmare baby."
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Mar 26, 2016 03:06
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Woo technical difficulties! Updates to come, we swear
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Mar 27, 2016 18:30
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Update: 19. Mergo's Wet Nurse, Gherman, Moon Presence
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Mar 28, 2016 02:59
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Glad to see this ending, and wow you did a lot of nightmare murder at once! I'm going to have to  about a couple of things:
Looking for to the DEE ELL--
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Mar 28, 2016 03:45
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Trynant posted:Glad to see this ending, and wow you did a lot of nightmare murder at once! I'm going to have to Thanks! I had to fade out there, because otherwise the sound acted like a car hitting a titanium wall at 100 mph.
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Mar 28, 2016 04:42
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Very few people realize that Splatoon is the sequel to Bloodborne.
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Mar 28, 2016 05:06
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I personally think the Wet Nurse is meant to be a/the Shadow/s of Yharnam as seen by Mergo itself. So Yharnam gives birth to the child of Oedon, Mergo, but the physical body is stillborn. The mind however enters the Nightmare and fixates on what it remembers perceiving around and protecting it's mother, her shadows, thus to protect itself it dreams up the monstrous Wet Nurse. Meanwhile Queen Yharnam grieves for her lost child and Pthumerian society largely recedes beneath the ground, they give her a tombstone and gravesite and leave three shadows to Gaurd it on the surface. When Byrgenwerth finds the Pthumerian dungeons they eventually find Yharnam, take some blood and shackle her up. Her blood is declared forbidden for "reasons". Eventually Laurence splits and forms the Healing Church whilst an unnamed scholar takes the blood of Yharnam to Cainhurst. The Church and the Vilebloods grow in Tandem, with the Church using Gherman and his apprentices as a clean up crew whilst the Vilebloods employ Knights. It comes to a head because the Vilebloods are killing Yharnamites and members of the Church for Blood Dregs, so Logarius and the Executioners are sent to Castle Cainhurst. Eventually the Outbreak in Old Yharnam occurs and Ludwig, who has brought the Hunters Workshop out into the open after Gherman "left", orders it burnt to the ground. Unfortunately this leaves the Pthumerian Chalice in the city. Thus the two major institutions in the Church search for an alternate way into the Dungeons, the Chapel discover Isz and Ebrieatas whilst Mensis is infiltrated by the Pthumerians at the orders of their Queen, because she wants Mergo back. Mensis start going off the Deep End because of the Pthumerians giving them knowledge of certain rituals, eventually allowing access to Mergo's Loft. However Queen Yharnam is still shackled beneath the earth and the Wet Nurse kills everyone else who approaches, plus Rom is stopping others from entering the Nightmare of Mensis, or at least hiding the way. Finally you show up, a Hunter contracted by the Moon Presence to kill the Wet Nurse, and Queen Yharnam gets her baby back, silencing it's harrowing cry. Only for you to go hunt her down in the Pthumeru Ihyll Dungeon and kill her as well.
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Mar 28, 2016 09:20
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I suppose the major question I have was: 'Why does the Moon Presence want Mergo dead?'
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Mar 28, 2016 10:27
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It's keeping him awake with that god-awful crying? Although I don't think you ever kill Mergo to be honest, you kill the Wet Nurse and can "kill" Queen Yharnam, but Mergo is in both fights. I think Mergo being formless means that it exists only in thought, thus it's impossible to actually kill. Killing the Wet Nurse silences Mergo because it's reunited and comforted by Queen Yharnam. Edit after watching: I don't think anywhere except the Nightmares/Dreams are part of the Nightmare realms. Also for reference only Hunters of the Dream are empowered by the Moon Presence, all other Hunters are just using the blood itself. The Moon Presence basically just makes you immortal and probably increased resistance to becoming a beast, it doesn't do anything else. The reason the Childhood's Beginning is the good ending is because it solves the most problems. Yharnam Sunrise is only good for you, it's bad for Gherman because he remains trapped by the Dream and it's bad for everyone else because the Moon Presence will force the Hunt for Great Ones to continue. Honoring Wishes ending is bad for you, good for Gherman because he's freed and bad for everyone else because again the Hunt for Great Ones continues and thus what happened in Yharnam will repeat. Childhood's Beginning is the good ending because you ascend from humanity to the level of the Great Ones, a positive probably, Gherman is freed from the Dream and the Hunt ends because the Moon Presence is slain. The Hunters aren't separate from the other groups by the way, Gherman was probably the Byrgenwerth Groundskeeper and then followed Laurence. At this point he becomes the First Hunter using a blade stolen from the Great Ones/Pthumerians and the shaft of his Gardening Scythe, interestingly the Wet Nurse is missing some blades and they're very similar in shape, this is also where the metal for the Blades of Mercy is from probably. He takes on apprentices and eventually is convinced to form the Hunter's Dream by Laurence. Then Ludwig takes control of the Workshop and makes it a visible part of society instead of hidden. Basically all the various Hunter factions are either directly working with a faction from the Church; Gherman, his apprentices, Ludwig's Church Hunters, the Yahar'Gul Hunters; or are from Cainhurst. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 10:30
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The amusing thing about the endings is that the harder the ending is to get the more humanity seems to be hosed.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:42
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This all makes sense, apart from one thing. Logarius went to Cainhurst and killed everyone because he never got invited to any of their parties.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:48
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Update: 20. The Hunter's Nightmare
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Mar 28, 2016 19:48
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:This all makes sense, apart from one thing. That's why he sits outside really, hiding the party in an illusion so no one gets invited over him.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:19
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Trynant posted:That's why he sits outside really, hiding the party in an illusion so no one gets invited over him. Little does he know on the inside there's someone just as lonely as him who needs love, too. This could be the romcom we've all been waiting for.
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Mar 28, 2016 20:53
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I can't help but notice Moon Presence bled red...
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Mar 29, 2016 06:23
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Are we the new Moon Presence? Is the hunt really over?
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Mar 29, 2016 07:26
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Paleblood funnily enough is really badly defined. I believe the current consensus is that it's the Moon Presence's name and the fact that some of the Kin and Great Ones bleed white is just a thing that's true. Although considering the insight/brain-eyes stuff going on with the Great Ones it's possible what appears to be blood is actually cerebral-spinal fluid. So I have a theory on whose Nightmare this is at it's heart, but I'll wait for the correct moment to discuss it. I'm pretty sure most of this first zone is built around the Burning of Old Yharnam, hence the Beast Patients and the Hunters having red eyes as if lit by watching fire. I personally think some of it comes from the Cainhurst Massacre and just the general atrocities that the Church Hunter's have performed over the years. I personally think the tougher hunters who drop Vermin are the real ones and all the others are either more lost to the Nightmare or aren't real. I also suspect that there's multiple hosts, for reasons that will be apparent in the second zone. Djura in particular was the Hunter of the Dream on the night of the Burning. He accepted his death after he realised that the Hunt is a horrific thing and then he and some friends started to protect the remainder of Old Yharnam. Hunter's didn't come first actually, they're formed specifically because Laurence needs a clean up crew and Gherman agrees. Gherman's Hunters moved through shadows but they did the dirty work of the Church, Ludwig brought them out from the shadows and made them "noble". Thus the Hunter's Workshop became the Healing Church Hunter's Workshop which is the tall tower you reach the original Workshop from. The powers of the Hunters come from the same place all the other powers in the game, it's the Old Blood and Insight, the Moon Presence just holds off the transformation into Kin/Beast. The Hunter's have always done the dirty work for other factions even if they came before the Church, as before the Church they'd have worked for Byrgenwerth if they existed at all. Something else that's pretty interesting is this gives some insight into how the Nightmare of Mensis and Nightmare Frontier formed. Mensis/the Loft is built around Pthumerian architecture and Frontier is Loranite in nature based on the Chalice found there and some other stuff.
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Mar 29, 2016 07:30
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Tasteful Dickpic posted:Are we the new Moon Presence? Is the hunt really over? Pretty sure yes, pretty sure no. RoboChrist 9000 posted:I can't help but notice Moon Presence bled red... Pretty sure it wasn't the first.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:28
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So none of the endings actually improve the situation in Yharnam? 
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Mar 29, 2016 20:46
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My understanding is that the events of the game end the current endless night that is plaguing the city. Rom, and folks are holding the ritual in stasis, preventing it from ending but also creating a long endless night of the hunt. Allowing the ritual to complete (and dealing with its consequences) is pretty catastrophic, but it's basically ripping the band-aid off quickly and hoping that the world can deal with the pain. It's very similar to Dark Souls where someone else has left the world stuck in the moment between known and unknown and you have to decide whether continuing the lovely status quo is better than taking a leap into a potentially worse unknown.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:53
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So what happens in Yharnam after the ending? Does the night end, the sun rises, and the surly townsfolk come out of their locked houses and continue business as usual? We've killed the leaders of the Healing Church, Byrgenwerth College, and most of the other movers and shakers around here. The world might be able to handle the situation, but Yharnam is hosed.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:12
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I'm pretty sure there are little to no survivors left after the ending, the people you bring to the chapel all go bonkers once the Blood Moon rises, apart from the Paranoid guy and the Blind man who gives in to despair, all but very few of the window NPC's also vanish too, presumably they all died or turned into beasts, so yeah, Yharnam's done for.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:57
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Yharnam's been dying for a while though, you just speed up the process a whole lot. Although the hunt ends when you kill the Moon Presence because the Moon Presence is the cause for the unnaturally long night, to an extent. The Moon Presence is guiding you towards killing at least one other Great One, now whether it just has problems with Oedon and Mergo or hates all the other Great Ones is unknown but they clearly don't all get along. By killing the Moon Presence you stop the hunts because there's nothing left to drive them; The School of Mensis is dead, the Choir are Blue Men, Byrgenwerth is defunct, Cainhurst is one lady locked in her throne room and the Hunter's Dream is now your domain. Yharnam will become like Pthumeru, an ancient civilisation from which some future group of people will discover the Old Blood and it will all begin again, however they'll hopefully be better able to handle it. Yharnam handled it better than the Pthumerians did after all, instead of blindly worshipping the Great Ones the factions of Yharnam studied them in the hopes of joining them, maybe in the future more than one person will be successful.
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Mar 30, 2016 01:25
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Side note: The Beast Cutter is amazing. if you can sneak in and grab it as soon as the DLC is open to you, it shreds through most of the main game. Not just because of numbers and damage, but because most of the main game simply is not geared toward you having that much range and aoe coverage on your melee attacks. The overhead on the extended form will hit most boss heads, making Amygdala a joke and Ebrietas much easier. It also trivializes a lot of mob encounters simply because you can hit so many people at once with it. Getting it isn't too hard either, the Hunter enemies are really easy to parry and then run past. Just do a suicide run for it, open the gate if you're having issue grabbing it. I freaking love this thing, its really underrated cause everybody is too busy gushing over certain other DLC weapons.Lord_Magmar posted:maybe in the future more than one person will be successful. Maybe in the future, when dungeon divers crack open the tomb and see our squiddy splendor they'll be smart enough to say "Yeah, no thanks" and just walk away.
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Mar 30, 2016 06:59
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If only we could write a more coherent note than "tongue but hole", we could warn future generations.
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Mar 30, 2016 08:23
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Update: 21. Ludwig
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Mar 31, 2016 06:31
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So I'm of the opinion that this first bit of the DLC is specifically to torment Ludwig, or more accurately is primarily made of his memories. The river of blood is the innocents killed at his orders and by his blade. This also makes me think Ludwig was working with or under Logarius at the time of the Cainhurst massacre hence the Bloodlickers. Everything about this area is meant to show off how awful the Hunters are, not the Church. They killed indiscriminately and without end, satisfying not a mission of protection or cleansing but self satisfaction at the hunt. Until they were dragged into the Nightmare of Ludwig, their once leader and who led to their current bloodthirsty ways. His title after all is very telling, to his victims he was an accursed monster, to himself and the church he is a figure of righteous strength. I think the horse-like appearance is because he would give the healing blood of the church to his horse when it got injured in hunts, and they transformed together into this thing. Also the Holy Moonlight Blade was probably taken from the Pthumerian dungeons, possibly from the Great One that gave birth to Ebrieatas as it is said to channel the abyssal cosmos. Also about the sun/moon, there's something else shaped like that although it's not very obvious. The eye that allows access to the DLC has a pupil shaped like that. I actually really like the cane for Ludwig fight by the way, of course I just plain out like the cane, in particular it has enough reach that you can dodge around him and hit his flanks, which eventually stuns him for extra hits. Although I appreciate that you're using the weapon modelled after his own legendary weapon. The phase transition is also the greatest cut-scene in the game I reckon. Ludwig returns to his humanity, something almost unthinkable, it's great. Did you show the party cave, I cannot remember, if yes that's a great moment in the DLC.
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Mar 31, 2016 11:06
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Lord_Magmar posted:Did you show the party cave, I cannot remember, if yes that's a great moment in the DLC. Let me just address the co-commentors here with some supplemental videos: there IS at least one thing in there for everyone, and that is getting past the bouncer to discover why it's called the party cave.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:23
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Lord_Magmar posted:So I'm of the opinion that this first bit of the DLC is specifically to torment Ludwig, or more accurately is primarily made of his memories. The river of blood is the innocents killed at his orders and by his blade. This also makes me think Ludwig was working with or under Logarius at the time of the Cainhurst massacre hence the Bloodlickers. Everything about this area is meant to show off how awful the Hunters are, not the Church. They killed indiscriminately and without end, satisfying not a mission of protection or cleansing but self satisfaction at the hunt. Until they were dragged into the Nightmare of Ludwig, their once leader and who led to their current bloodthirsty ways. His title after all is very telling, to his victims he was an accursed monster, to himself and the church he is a figure of righteous strength. I think the horse-like appearance is because he would give the healing blood of the church to his horse when it got injured in hunts, and they transformed together into this thing. I don't think he was involved with Cainhurst at all. Only the executioners went to Cainhurst. The Bloodlickers only show up in 3 places: Cainhurst's front lawn, The River of Blood, and any chalice dungeon after you use a visceral attack. They just go to wherever there's a lot of split blood. And as it being a literal river, there is a lot of blood here. And I believe him being horse-like is just supposed to be symbolic of him as a knight. As the first church hunter, they probably weren't fully aware of how corrupting the old blood was at that time so he probably used a whole gently caress ton of it compared to hunters who came afterward and so transformed into an especially grotesque monster. Also I think it flat out says he found the Holy Moonlight Blade in a labyrinth, didn't it? I know from things he says if you answer yes to his question, and the item description, that he didn't always have it. He found it and kept it because it "spoke" to him. When he found it he was unsure what he was doing was right, but he'd close his eyes while holding the sword and he could see "lights" that guided and comforted him. It never says what the lights were, and he flat out says he didn't actually want to know, but given that he found the sword in a labyrinth it's clear he contacted some great one and it guided him on who to kill and somehow reassured him that what he was doing was right. Then he presumably turned into a beast, was killed, and had his consciousness pulled into the nightmare.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:58
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I think Ludwig resembles a horse because he has turned into a nightmare - going by the very old definition of a nightmare being a horse that brings bad dreams - 'night-mare'.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:38
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