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wesleywillis posted:Voyeur wife goon is probably the one who was actually masturbating to the video of the baby sitter. There was never a wife at all Or a boyfriend Or a sitter
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Mar 13, 2018 20:05
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loquacius posted:There was never a wife at all BRB, gonna go tell M. Night Shyamalan this jerk is ripping off Split.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:10
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omnibobb posted:Tell me more time travel guy. I hope time travel guy claimed to be named Biggles during the time travel. Also the Lunar Colonies lights going out means we hosed up somewhere and didn't terraform the moon enough and the colony suffocated to death like what was shown as a threat in Total Recal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7yMe1lGf0U
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Mar 13, 2018 20:12
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loquacius posted:Ok, I'm gonna be That Guy and point out that traveling through time but not through space wouldn't actually work because the earth is constantly hurtling through space at unimaginable speeds Ok, I'm gonna be That Other Guy and point out that all motion is relative, and you're making the assumption that time travel would be relative to some arbitrary point in space. There's no reason why time travel couldn't be relative to the location of person doing the traveling.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:13
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Its fixed to the gravitational fields, you show up in the same spot on earths surface as you travel the least in 4 dimensional gravity space that way.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:22
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runupon cracker posted:Ok, I'm gonna be That Other Guy and point out that all motion is relative, and you're making the assumption that time travel would be relative to some arbitrary point in space. There's no reason why time travel couldn't be relative to the location of person doing the traveling. I'm assuming you mean "relative to the Earth's core" because what I've been saying is "20 feet away from where I'm standing right now, but 200 years in the past" would be somewhere in deep space or do you mean "relative to where I was at the time" because that would also limit you to traveling within your own natural lifespan At any rate speaking as an engineer being able to pin these coordinates to the core of the Earth would be extremely difficult unless your machine also has some way of knowing where in space the Earth's core was at any given moment of history; making it relative to a specific "beacon" artifact that your machine knows how to find would be easier but you couldn't go back in time to before the artifact was built. Maybe making it relative to the Sun could work? I dunno enough astrophysics to know if that's possible.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:25
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When I once considered doing a time travel story, I figured you’d need some sort of timespace-beacon on Earth set up and you couldn’t go any further in the past than that, but you could go ahead in time and gently caress around.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:26
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i think the concept of alternate universes is more likely than time travel per se. i want to go to the universe that's like this one, but i run the anon fesh page and loquacious hands out hot takes in /r/relationships thread
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Mar 13, 2018 20:33
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I want to go to the universe where the air is made out of wood.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:53
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loquacius posted:I'm assuming you mean "relative to the Earth's core" because what I've been saying is "20 feet away from where I'm standing right now, but 200 years in the past" would be somewhere in deep space Let me put it another way. When you travel through time, is your location in space going to be your current position relative to the sun? Relative to the center of the galaxy? Relative to the center of the known universe? Because those are going to be three very different locations relative to your current location on Earth. But even those three examples are arbitrary locations. Although it seems natural to treat the center of the known universe as some kind of anchor for an absolute coordinate system, the only reason we consider it to be the center is because of all the stuff moving away from it. In reality, there's no such thing as an absolute position in space.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:25
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runupon cracker posted:Let me put it another way. When you travel through time, is your location in space going to be your current position relative to the sun? Relative to the center of the galaxy? Relative to the center of the known universe? Because those are going to be three very different locations relative to your current location on Earth. But even those three examples are arbitrary locations. Although it seems natural to treat the center of the known universe as some kind of anchor for an absolute coordinate system, the only reason we consider it to be the center is because of all the stuff moving away from it. In reality, there's no such thing as an absolute position in space. Ok but you have to define the position somehow because "just where I am now" won't work Relative to the earth's core would work better but you'd have to make sure your machine knows how to find the Earth's core at any point in history Like, I'm not speaking from a philosophical standpoint here, I'm speaking from an engineering one, because I am a professional engineer
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Mar 13, 2018 21:32
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See, I've thought about this before, and I kinda feel like you can handwave it away by understanding that 'time travel' is not just vanishing in 2017 and instantly showing up in 2417 or 1617, but rapidly following a path through spacetime. Particularly with something which can be projected with precision, like the movement of the Earth & Sun, the time machine factors it in and plots you on a (very rapid) spacetime path that winds you up exactly where the Earth should be (or was). You can't travel through time without traveling through space/vice versa, so this may be 'free' transit to some extent. Time traveling from the cargo hold of a spaceship which later unpredictably accelerates or changes course would wind up with your machine showing up in the vacuum, yeah. Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 21:36
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loquacius posted:Ok but you have to define the position somehow because "just where I am now" won't work but if your machine is always in the same position relative to the Earth's core, it doesn't need to find the Earth's core, because it hasn't moved. there is no such thing as an absolute point in space edit: let me put this another other way - there is no such thing as absolute movement, including no movement. You cannot say that any object in the universe is absolutely stationary. Everything in the universe can only be considered in motion or stationary relative to some other object. The assumption you're making here is that when an object travels through time, it remains stationary relative to some other object. This is not necessarily the case. If it is necessarily the case, what other object does it stay stationary relative to, and why? Tinestram fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 21:39
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runupon cracker posted:but if your machine is always in the same position relative to the Earth's core, it doesn't need to find the Earth's core, because it hasn't moved. so you are assuming that your time machine has always existed and will always exist ok sure if you're taking that as a given, then ok, I just didn't realize we were discussing a Lovecraft scenario e: wait you appear to be saying that all positions are meaningless??? That's philosophy talk, not engineering talk. I'm not in the business of discussing what an absolute location means, but to define a location it has to be relative to a known quantity, whether that's The Center Of The Universe or something else where you always know exactly where it is. The earth's core at any given point in history is not a known quantity. A "beacon" thing would be a known quantity, but only for points in time after it is built. I dunno, if you want to write this loving algorithm, go nuts buddy loquacius fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 21:45
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loquacius posted:so not at all, see my edit
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Mar 13, 2018 21:47
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runupon cracker posted:not at all, see my edit To keep us from getting bogged down in the metaphysical weeds: you're right that we can't define A Single Stationary Point, but one thing we can safely assume would NOT work is ignoring location completely, because the Earth is pretty objectively not stationary (SEE: the time of day changes; the seasons change). So, we need to define what location our time machine goes to relative to something; I suggested the Earth's core, but for that to work you'd need to be able to find it with absolute certainty at any point in history, which is a little harder to solve. Hence the "beacon" thing. Also once this problem is solved you'd have to make sure that your machine is actually capable of getting to that point somehow which is where you start getting lost in the weeds w/r/t gravitational fields and spacetime flows and etc etc etc time travel isn't possible
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Mar 13, 2018 22:00
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Time traveler goon: in the future does everyone use Fahrenheit or Celsius?
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Mar 13, 2018 22:06
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where punching through space-time is a real thing, whether or not you wind up near something (or some place) is entirely up to the mechanics you've made up to explain your time travel. There's no absolute point of reference in the universe. Even time itself is relative - if you traveled 100 years into the future on Earth, only 1 additional year has passed on some other planet with tons more gravity. Thinking of "issues" with time travel is just as creative an exercise as thinking of mechanisms for time travel, and equally unverifiable.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:10
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loquacius posted:To keep us from getting bogged down in the metaphysical weeds: you're right that we can't define A Single Stationary Point, but one thing we can safely assume would NOT work is ignoring location completely, because the Earth is pretty objectively not stationary (SEE: the time of day changes; the seasons change). So, we need to define what location our time machine goes to relative to something; I suggested the Earth's core, but for that to work you'd need to be able to find it with absolute certainty at any point in history, which is a little harder to solve. Hence the "beacon" thing. Once again, the Earth is not "objectively" in motion. Your very examples of the time of day and seasons occur specifically because the Earth is in motion relative to the sun. The Earth is also pretty stationary relative to lots of things... satellites in geosynchronous orbit, me (at the moment). Why do you assume that an object traveling through time must remain motionless relative to some specific object? Edit: I think we may have to just agree to disagree on this one! Tinestram fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 22:10
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runupon cracker posted:Once again, the Earth is not "objectively" in motion. Your very examples of the time of day and seasons occur specifically because the Earth is in motion relative to the sun. The Earth is also pretty stationary relative to lots of things... satellites in geosynchronous orbit, me (at the moment). I'm not. I'm trying to conceptualize how to tell your time machine where to appear after it accomplishes the already-impossible task of moving backward or forward in time. I am an engineer. Stuff like this is my job. Pointing out that stationary positions don't really exist in a way we can quantify is proving my point, really, in that there is no proper way to do this unless you have something you can home into. I dunno dude, gonna refer back to this post loquacius posted:if you want to write this loving algorithm, go nuts buddy bc blarzgh is right and this is all navelgazing
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Mar 13, 2018 22:14
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Wizard.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:15
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tfw there’s a bunch of new posts in this thread and i’m hoping it’s confessions but its some nerd poo poo like metric v imperial or time travel
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Mar 13, 2018 22:28
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From a few pages back, but curse jar goon - if you simply bury the jar at a crossroads or drop it into a source of running water (like a river or stream, not your bathtub) you should be fine. I mean, if you believe in witchcraft. A bunch of websites talk about you having to join some group or learn magic, but you really don't. Witchcraft today is really a christian religious tradition from the Middle Ages, and is founded on many christian rituals and practices. Books like the Malleus Maleficarum and what not explain that breaking curses/spells is pretty easy. Don't leave it buried in the backyard, don't break it and don't burn it. I'm reading through that slog of a book right now in my senior semester, which is why I brought it up.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:29
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Space Camp fuckup posted:Time traveler goon: in the future does everyone use Fahrenheit or Celsius? I need to know this answer right goddamned now!
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Mar 13, 2018 22:35
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Og Loq you're a smart guy and it hurts me to see you shamed by an anime av like this. You're an engineer, idk what kind but my only experience is structural so I'm gonna use that. Surveyors put down lot markers, defined by a positions relationship to established landmarks (nowdays to gps satellites). The position of a buildings foundation is defined by its relationship with those markers. The windows, doors, and walls positions are defined by their relationships to the foundation. That these points are arbitrary *does not matter*, only their relationships to each other. gently caress Newton, it's Einstein's time to shine. Your machine doesn't need to try and locate itself based off the immutable center of a static universe, only maintain its relationship with Earth. Also orbital mechanics aren't super hard and it would probably just be way easier to just calculate that poo poo out ahead of time. Then your machine just has to maintain a relationship with your point of origin, which should be trivial especially with the limitation that you stay on earth The hard part of this is the ??? manipulate fourth dimension ???, not 'hurr how do i locate myself in space'. You've been doing that part over and over and over every day since the spatial reasoning bits of your brain grew in as a wee babe
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Mar 13, 2018 22:35
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420 SWAGLORD posted:Also orbital mechanics aren't super hard and it would probably just be way easier to just calculate that poo poo out ahead of time. Then your machine just has to maintain a relationship with your point of origin, which should be trivial especially with the limitation that you stay on earth Once you've done all this, you can change your destination point without too much effort, meaning that teleportation is a special case of time travel (that only travels in space, not in time).
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Mar 13, 2018 22:43
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420 SWAGLORD posted:Og Loq you're a smart guy and it hurts me to see you shamed by an anime av like this. You're an engineer, idk what kind but my only experience is structural so I'm gonna use that. Surveyors put down lot markers, defined by a positions relationship to established landmarks (nowdays to gps satellites). The position of a buildings foundation is defined by its relationship with those markers. The windows, doors, and walls positions are defined by their relationships to the foundation. That these points are arbitrary *does not matter*, only their relationships to each other. gently caress Newton, it's Einstein's time to shine. Your machine doesn't need to try and locate itself based off the immutable center of a static universe, only maintain its relationship with Earth. I'm a software engineer aka the guy who would have to write this code How does a machine moving through time "maintain its relationship with Earth" pls, what does that mean? Limiting the machine to appearing on Earth is the entire problem here and can't be handwaved away like that. Also the human brain doing something for free does not mean it's easy to code. Computer vision is the science of teaching a computer to do something we've all been doing over and over every day since the visual cortex bits of our brains grew in as a wee babe, and after years of heavily-invested research it still hasn't advanced to the point where computers can reliably solve captchas I agree that orbital mechanics is a possible solution if you can figure out how to position your machine relative to the Sun, but that's not free either and the photography solution only works if you trust yourself to make this decision based on a photo e: amended the bullshit part, that only made its way into the post because I'm mad at a work thing rn loquacius fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 22:46
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Sorry by 'maintain a relationship with' I mean 'maintain its position in relation to'. What says that this planet and our machine have to be separated by the process of temporal displacement? If our machine maintains a position relative to its point of origin rather than the sun or the center of the universe or whatever the problem kinda solves itself. None of those are really any more 'fixed' than the earths own position. Not saying 'I figured it out, who's writing the grant' but I think runupon cracker's logic is good enough not to annoy me in my sci-fi
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Mar 13, 2018 23:15
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Like, relativity is some crazy poo poo and definitely has philosophical implications if you want to think about them but it's also the most best model we've got rn. It's not saying 'all positions are meaningless' but rather that their significance is derived from their relationships to one another
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Mar 13, 2018 23:19
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Stfu about fake time travel nonsense imo
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Mar 13, 2018 23:22
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haha "if you time traveled you'd end up in loving space" vs "nah you can like, make algorithm" is my favorite derail ever, hats off to the puppetmaster for another win
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Mar 13, 2018 23:31
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420 SWAGLORD posted:Like, relativity is some crazy poo poo and definitely has philosophical implications if you want to think about them but it's also the most best model we've got rn. It's not saying 'all positions are meaningless' but rather that their significance is derived from their relationships to one another For the record, I've never disputed this, only said that the target location has to be relative to something you can reliably find, and that's the hardest piece of the puzzle Relative to "its own point of origin" doesn't really help either if you're traveling to before the machine was built but I'm done being mad at code and moving on to cooking dinner now so we can table this
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Mar 13, 2018 23:36
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if you have the tech to gently caress around with time, your place & moving in 3D space is going to be irrelevant 
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Mar 13, 2018 23:39
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This whole derail becomes moot when you remember that backwards time travel is mechanistically equivalent to faster than light travel through space. EDIT: Basically everyone's talking like there's two problems- travelling through time and travelling through space. These are actually the same, to travel to say, the year 1482 from your current location on Earth is literally 100% equivalent to making an FTL jump to wherever Earth was at that point in time. The idea that you could do one but not the other is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of relativity, no philosophy involved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime Jeremiah Flintwick fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Mar 13, 2018 |
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Mar 13, 2018 23:54
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loq, read Einstein's book on relativity. the point everyone else is making will become clear. and if you can't just accept how relativity works, think about his explanation of gravity. your time machine likely would just use the depression in the universal gravity field as its point of reference to maintain location.
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Mar 13, 2018 23:58
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quote:Nothing comes with me, just my naked self. So if you're just chilling at home and you travel to before you owned the place... What I'm trying to say is that some family had to move because a naked 30-something goon kept randomly appearing on their couch lol
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Mar 13, 2018 23:58
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The Mighty Moltres posted:So if you're just chilling at home and you travel to before you owned the place... dont dox me
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Mar 14, 2018 00:04
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The Mighty Moltres posted:So if you're just chilling at home and you travel to before you owned the place... why do you need time travel for this?
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Mar 14, 2018 00:12
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poo poo I moved to my current place because it wasn't happening at home.
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Mar 14, 2018 01:33
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Travel through time via my rear end in a top hat it is a time portal and portal to alternative realities
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Mar 14, 2018 03:02
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