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Everyone knows it's going to be Ultima Thule Reconstruction.
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Jan 3, 2022 04:39
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For some reason I keep thinking Nymeia is also supposed to be the Namazu's Big One catfish goddess
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Jan 3, 2022 04:57
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Azubah posted:Specialty ships based on which primal is powering it. I want to get off Susano's endless party barge.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:04
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Rand Brittain posted:It occurs to me that on top of Garlean Reconstruction, it's totally possible that New Sharlayan Reconstruction is in the future, since all the reasons for abandoning the colony no longer apply. Yeah I don't think there's enough left of Garlemald to reconstruct. You could have a thing about settling them somewhere else, but the city is completely bombed out except for the subway station and the horrible Geiger-esque tower. Besides, it's not like they even liked living there! Move the refugees somewhere warm and they'd be a lot happier 
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Jan 3, 2022 05:09
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HPanda posted:Maybe a resettlement effort? yea it'd be really cool if the 'project' this expansion was helping Garleans rebuild and make a new life in their old homeland (near Corvis right?)
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Jan 3, 2022 05:14
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Begemot posted:Yeah I don't think there's enough left of Garlemald to reconstruct. You could have a thing about settling them somewhere else, but the city is completely bombed out except for the subway station and the horrible Geiger-esque tower. I can't imagine too many people will be willing to take them. Maybe some of the Gsrlemand successor states that will likely arise around individual legions, but I don't know if any such places had society integrated enough were they won't be perceived as outsiders --- we still don't know much about a lot of the empire.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:22
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Ibblebibble posted:If Pandaemonium Warden isn't a boss in Pandaemonium I'll be surprised. It was already a boss in Eureka, plus we fought a Warden of Pandemonium already! Begemot posted:Yeah I don't think there's enough left of Garlemald to reconstruct. You could have a thing about settling them somewhere else, but the city is completely bombed out except for the subway station and the horrible Geiger-esque tower. The issue there is largely that lovely or not it is their home and the Garleans are extremely loving stubborn when it comes to pride. Even if they're not looking to kill us it seems like they wouldn't be willing to effectively become refugees in nations where there is a significant chance most of the population wants to murder them in their sleep.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:25
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Pandemonium is not Pandæmonium
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Jan 3, 2022 05:26
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If nothing else, I feel like somebody ought to live on the moon, since the loporrits spent so much time building a habitable space up there, only some of which is trying to kill the residents.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:35
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Rand Brittain posted:If nothing else, I feel like somebody ought to live on the moon, since the loporrits spent so much time building a habitable space up there, only some of which is trying to kill the residents. tailor-made for adventurer housing, then
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Jan 3, 2022 05:38
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Begemot posted:Yeah I don't think there's enough left of Garlemald to reconstruct. You could have a thing about settling them somewhere else, but the city is completely bombed out except for the subway station and the horrible Geiger-esque tower. Speaking of which, what are we going to do with that tower? Just...leave it as is? There's probably nothing crazy evil left in there, and it has a nice, convenient teleporter to the moon, but man that thing is creepy as gently caress to look at.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:40
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Rand Brittain posted:If nothing else, I feel like somebody ought to live on the moon, since the loporrits spent so much time building a habitable space up there, only some of which is trying to kill the residents. "Hey Garleans! So, we have an idea for a place you can live now!" "Oh, wonderful. It has to be better than here!" "... yeaaah, how do you feel about a desolate wasteland populated only by ruined spaceships, the former prison of a dark elder god, and some rabbits who haven't quite figured out how to make your housing not murder you."
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Jan 3, 2022 05:41
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ImpAtom posted:"Hey Garleans! So, we have an idea for a place you can live now!" "Oh, wonderful. It has to be better than here!" "... yeaaah, how do you feel about a desolate wasteland populated only by ruined spaceships, the former prison of a dark elder god, and some rabbits who haven't quite figured out how to make your housing not murder you." "And most importantly... how do you feel about carrots?"
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Jan 3, 2022 05:43
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Begemot posted:Yeah I don't think there's enough left of Garlemald to reconstruct. You could have a thing about settling them somewhere else, but the city is completely bombed out except for the subway station and the horrible Geiger-esque tower. actually, there is a building in the northwest corner that is still intact. if you do one of the sidequests, an engineer mentions that it was built earlier than the rest of the city, and before they started cutting corners lol it's suspiciously intact, so i'm pretty sure it's gonna be used for something!  it's next to the place (train depot??) where you enter the tower, and is one of the sightseeing log locations. https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Sightseeing_Log:_Senaculum_Imperialis
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Jan 3, 2022 05:48
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Rhonne posted:Speaking of which, what are we going to do with that tower? Just...leave it as is? There's probably nothing crazy evil left in there, and it has a nice, convenient teleporter to the moon, but man that thing is creepy as gently caress to look at. My theory is the tower is going to be the new Deep Dungeon. As for the Garleans, Locus Amoenus (Corvus) is a plausible place they could be relocated. As it is their ancestral homeland and as far as places you can convince them to move it'd be pretty high up there. Of course, they invaded it a while ago which is why G'raha's people were forced away from it.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:55
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Begemot posted:Yeah I don't think there's enough left of Garlemald to reconstruct. You could have a thing about settling them somewhere else, but the city is completely bombed out except for the subway station and the horrible Geiger-esque tower. I thought it was interesting that the Empire apparently conquered their ancestral homeland of Corvos 50 years ago back when it was formed, but the population still lives in the frozen hell where they inspire each other to never forget that they've been forced to live there by the savages. I guess Solus must've sold them some story about why they aren't allowed to move to the tropical island of their forefathers because reasons.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:57
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Gruckles posted:I thought it was interesting that the Empire apparently conquered their ancestral homeland of Corvos 50 years ago back when it was formed, but the population still lives in the frozen hell where they inspire each other to never forget that they've been forced to live there by the savages. I guess Solus must've sold them some story about why they aren't allowed to move to the tropical island of their forefathers because reasons. That's more recent, G'raha was living there when it got conquered.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:58
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My spicy hot take after finishing the story and still playing and thinking for a while: Labyrinthos shouldn't have been a zone. Nothing of note really happens in it, everything in there could've been done in some more interesting place. Sharlayan didn't need an associated open world zone. The stuff that happens at the end of it could've been anywhere. Labyrinthos is never under threat and never really changes. It's just there. I would've gladly traded it for, like, another zone of Garlemald buildup/scouting. Could even meet Erenville there.
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Jan 3, 2022 05:58
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you're right
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Jan 3, 2022 06:00
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Lord_Magmar posted:As for the Garleans, Locus Amoenus (Corvus) is a plausible place they could be relocated. As it is their ancestral homeland and as far as places you can convince them to move it'd be pretty high up there. It was also one of the places worst hit by the Final Days. We actually aren't sure there's anyone left ALIVE there.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:00
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Lord_Magmar posted:That's more recent, G'raha was living there when it got conquered. I wouldn't be surprised if I have the timeline mixed up, but I thought it was that the Empire had occupied the region for a while, but the G tribe didn't flee until Darnus more recently started trying to find the Allagan secrets they were keepers of.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:05
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bewilderment posted:My spicy hot take after finishing the story and still playing and thinking for a while: COunter point: It looks cool as heck and the atmosphere and lore is super fun in it and it's also the whole staging area for our space ship which is very critical so a lot of note actually does happen there. It's way way more connected to the plot than somewhere like...Coerthas Western Highlands or...The Lochs where the MSQ takes you to like 5% of it and the rest is pointless faffing about.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:05
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bewilderment posted:My spicy hot take after finishing the story and still playing and thinking for a while: I agree. It was a neat parallel with Elpis, but it's very boring, even the sidequests. I'd rather have some sort of borderland of Garlemald to explore, maybe a part further south that's not so snowy.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:09
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Gnossiennes posted:actually, there is a building in the northwest corner that is still intact. if you do one of the sidequests, an engineer mentions that it was built earlier than the rest of the city, and before they started cutting corners lol The side quest where you get an aerial tour explains that place is intact because it was built tough.  Once a Republic government building could be a Republic government building again, I suppose. idk if they're going to rebuild Garlemald, though Thinking about it and looking at that dialogue again, the tour guide warns that it looks worse from the air. I disagree. On the ground it's just piles of debris and angry robots, but from the air you can see that some buildings are still intact, and that a lot of the debris is just piles of scrap in the roads. FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 06:09
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Begemot posted:I agree. There's nothing narrative to do in garlemald that the one zone doesn't cover completely except maybe add in more survivors who hate our guts and thus ruin all the pacing and build up to the ones we meet in garlemald. Also if you don't enjoy the bumbling scientists getting confused about Namazu or dominated by a tiny troll I don't want to know what you think good sidequests are.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:12
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Gruckles posted:I thought it was interesting that the Empire apparently conquered their ancestral homeland of Corvos 50 years ago back when it was formed, but the population still lives in the frozen hell where they inspire each other to never forget that they've been forced to live there by the savages. I guess Solus must've sold them some story about why they aren't allowed to move to the tropical island of their forefathers because reasons. This (not just this post, but the whole conversation) feels kinda like asking why they didn't move the capital from Moscow to Sochi after Napoleon burned the place down. People like to live where they live. Before the modern era, cities were reduced to rubble all the time. People rebuilt them, regardless of if they were in lousy locations, because all the infrastructure still pointed in their direction and, maybe more importantly, because they'd always lived there and humans are sentimental. PoorWeather fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 06:12
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sharlayan in general was whatever. It's got pretty much one joke (it's a permanent college town consisting largely of absent-minded professors!) which has diminishing returns, especially once the loporrits show up with a bit that isn't the same but does have some overlap. their entire culture is literally a plot contrivance. it didn't sour the game for me or anything but I can't imagine spending any more time on sharlayan generally (as opposed to, e.g., students of baldesion content), and I wouldn't have minded swapping out labyrinthos for pretty much anything else. It's also a problem the moon has, honestly; it feels like it's a zone because it would be weird not to have a moon zone, not because they had a lot of ideas for it. Even the addition of a beast tribe would do very little to fill out either the second half of labyrinthos or the bulk of the mare lamentorum map.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:15
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Valentin posted:sharlayan in general was whatever. It's got pretty much one joke (it's a permanent college town consisting largely of absent-minded professors!) which has diminishing returns, especially once the loporrits show up with a bit that isn't the same but does have some overlap. their entire culture is literally a plot contrivance. it didn't sour the game for me or anything but I can't imagine spending any more time on sharlayan generally (as opposed to, e.g., students of baldesion content), and I wouldn't have minded swapping out labyrinthos for pretty much anything else. There are also five patches worth of plot/dungeons and whatever the trial series is going to be at bare minimum.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:18
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Rand Brittain posted:Livingway doesn't say "properly-constructed primals won't temper you, except something as big as Zodiark; that would give your soul a tug." creation magic: can temper: yes (in cases of very large creations will temper to a small degree no matter what) want to temper: no ascian summon ritual: can temper: yes want to temper: yes Also people are forgetting the other part of of Emet Selch's lore dump back in ShB. When he said "yeah we're all tempered" he followed up with "we become aligned with dark aether and after causing so many calamities darkness became associated with evil". As far as we can tell this is very true since all Ascians in the present day favor black magic (except ironically Elidibus since he spends his time doing false flags) . Their signature spells are spark and triple, their music is thunderer. We even see this in Amon switching from mostly wind magic of Hermes to the 3 BLM elements. Tempering is aetheric corruption, why did these people suddenly decide to switch to black magic for 12000 years? Sure is a mystery. It even matches with how their first course of action was to dump a shitload of dark aether into the 13th before going "maybe we should have planned this out better". Algid fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 06:18
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ImpAtom posted:There are also five patches worth of plot/dungeons and whatever the trial series is going to be at bare minimum. Sure, but I can't really think of a whole lot of patch content that made a lot of new use of this kind of thing. Maybe I'm forgetting something major but it seems to me most patch content so far has involved running around to locations you've already been, and it's been increasingly common to just give trials and similar stuff their own areas (the weapons didn't use anything existing, they used Werlyt and the Ghimlyt Dark staging area. Eden is its own thing. I don't think the Stormblood trials really used much or anything besides their own dungeons and trial areas, plus the temple? Omega is its own thing. The HW trials and raids do make marginally more use of the Hinterlands and Azys Lla but iirc mostly happen in that one random camp in the Hinterlands and in the Solar, respectively. Alex appearing is cool but doesn't actually really meaningfully use the map space). If it didn't happen for the Lochs or the Forelands or the Ruby Sea (ShB feels like the exception where 5.0 does generally make fill use of the region maps, though maybe I'm forgetting something), I'm not exactly holding my breath for 6.4 to make me go "yeah, actually, labyrinthos owns". It could! It just seems unlikely. Valentin fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 06:23
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PoorWeather posted:This feels kinda like asking why they didn't move the capital from Moscow to Sochi after Napoleon burned the place down. See I get and thought of that, "why don't you just move" is a pretty dumb privileged way of thinking that ignores sentimental and financial circumstance, but also a lot of their indoctrination seems to be based around "the place we live sucks a lot and we were forced here, so let's go out and get payback." I guess what I really mean is more that I'm curious how free the general populace even is to move themselves out to conquered territories if they desired to, and if Emet-Selch made them a convincing argument for "here's why you should continue to live here, and meanwhile get more bitter at the 'savages' about it and join the army." Gruckles fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 06:25
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Valentin posted:Sure, but I can't really think of a whole lot of patch content that made a lot of new use of this kind of thing. You've got an entire nation of Cids and Neros suddenly warming up to opening up to the outside world, their moon-rabbit collaborators, interstellar space ships, an elevator into the core of the aethric sea itself. I'm pretty sure they can figure out something to do. Maybe tie it into that whole "Boy garlemald is going to need a lot of aid in rebuilding/moving/rehousing the handfuls of survivors."
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Jan 3, 2022 06:26
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I want to see more political fallout of the complete destruction of the empire. What are the conscripts going to do now that they’re in a foreign land with no military keeping them there, who’s going to help build the new institutions, how are conquered nations responders, etc
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Jan 3, 2022 06:26
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You've got an entire nation of Cids and Neros suddenly warming up to opening up to the outside world, their moon-rabbit collaborators, interstellar space ships, an elevator into the core of the aethric sea itself. to be clear by "this kind of thing" I mean "largely unused sections of maps which mostly exists to host FATEs and look nice," I'm not complaining that there seems to be nowhere for the plot to go. It just seems more likely to me that any of the above will be handled via moon dungeon or garlemald dungeons or specific zone (like Werlyt or the Doman Enclave) and not done to make full use of the existing maps, which is fine! But does make the moon and labyrinthos feel a little perfunctory once you're actually looking back at them. Again, I could be very wrong on this, but my recollection of most patch content is it makes minimal use of existing MSQ world zones except as places where dungeon entrances are putatively located, except dungeon entrances literally don't matter.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:30
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You explore the map a lot more fully if you’re doing sidequests, fates, and finding wind currents
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Jan 3, 2022 06:34
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Eh, idk. I've cleared literally all world zone sidequests, collected all aether currents, and grinded 60 fates in each zone. This is true to some extent (for example, the ruins of Garlemald proper, which you don't go too deep into during the MSQ, feature heavily in the sidequests there), but can't really do much to alleviate the fact exploring the moon or Sharlayan isn't really interesting in itself (also, I don't think the major side quest lines do much to flesh out the zone in each of those places, but that's a matter of taste). I find generally that simple map completion in FFXIV isn't actually interesting. The best example of MSQ zone fleshing-out I can think of is when you go to the Azim Steppe before the Burn, when Y'shtola activates [some aether-blocking pillars or something idr]. It not only put a quest marker at that spot but fleshed out why it existed and why it was worth putting on the map in the first place. I expect we'll get that for some things via patch MSQ or beast tribes (the Loporrit living on his own, Heimdall's Last Sight), but not most (most of the southeast part of the moon or southwest part of Labyrinthos, where there just isn't stuff to even flesh out). e: the above is unfair to Heimdall's Last Sight, since it implies I find it lame but it's genuinely neat in its own right. It's the giant empty spaces I find underwhelming. It also occurs to me that to some extent this was previously ameliorated via things like job quests (e.g. the Ruby Sea fleshing out some of those underused outlying islands via the SAM quests), but the role quests are explicitly in Eorzea so they can't do anything for the EW zones. Valentin fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 06:40
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Labyrinthos is meant to be a "Mysteries of Sharlayan" kind of zone, and once we've unravelled those mysteries, yeah it's just pretty, but that's kind of an unusual ask for a zone to begin with. Even so, sometimes things can repeat or have overlaps. As for rebuilding Garlemald, they could probably start a new settlement a little clear of the capital or in one particular district. Garlemald would have abundant resources in the form of the former capital's scrap and there are those ceruleum people -- the ceruleum is still fine, magitek still works fine.
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Jan 3, 2022 06:52
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What I don’t like about Labyrinthos is how it’s divided between early game and endgame levels. It makes the fate grins there kind of awkward
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Jan 3, 2022 06:56
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yeah, especially since the relative space accorded to the early game stuff feels much smaller than in Thavnair, though it's not like I've measured it. I usually ended up going Thavnair 80-81 and 85-56, then Labyrinthos just for 88-89. Or bringing two classes to Labyrinthos. Either way, agreed the split has a slightly weird effect on FATE grinding e: also framing labyrinthos as a zone about mystery highlights a lot of what's lame about it to me. There's barely any mystery! "The Sharlayans have some kind of ark" is apparent from pretty early on in the 80-81 content, and then by the time you return in endgame you literally get the full explanation before you even go to the inner circuit, iirc. Fundamentally I guess I think there wasn't a lot of "there" there, so to speak, in Sharlayan, even though your presence there (and maybe more importantly, the other Scions' relationship to Sharlayan) forms the basis of a lot of material in the MSQ. It's much more interesting as the idyllic hometown that symbolizes a lot of what your allies believe makes life worth living than as a mystery zone, which is why there's so many good scenes there about developing the Scions as individual characters and as a party, but relatively little interesting plot action, imo. The coolest stuff in Sharlayan has very little to do with MSQ developments and a lot to do with like, meeting Papalymo's dad. Valentin fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jan 3, 2022 |
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Jan 3, 2022 06:59
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thetoughestbean posted:What I don’t like about Labyrinthos is how it’s divided between early game and endgame levels. It makes the fate grins there kind of awkward Amh Araeng had the same problem. It ain't great. Split zones are cool for story, bad for fates.
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Jan 3, 2022 07:02
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