Puroresu News/Views: The only thing that makes sense is money laundering.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Puroresu News/Views: The only thing that makes sense is money laundering.

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hunnert car pileup: Oct 28, 2007; the first world was a mistake

quote:

All Japan has remained in business since losing NTV, although its popularity has greatly waned and the company has battled serious financial problems over the years, including periods when the wrestlers and office people would be paid in tickets, which they could sell to make money when the company could no longer afford to pay them.

# ? Dec 18, 2008 01:48

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 17:32

coconono: Aug 11, 2004; KISS ME KRIS

getting moved to a smaller viewer base isn't the end of the world, its just a sign of the times. The economy sucks and Puro is falling out of the japanese national entertainment landscape.

Stuff like Drgaon Gate and HUSTLE are getting by because they cater to niche audiences.

# ? Dec 18, 2008 01:53

Ditch: Jul 29, 2003; Backdrop Hunger

It's a death spiral. Puro doesn't get top-notch athletes, at least not heavyweights, like they used to. Smaller crowds and less money only exacerbate the problem. Japan had up and down cycles like the US, but this is much worse and much harder to dig out of.

# ? Dec 18, 2008 03:33

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

Ditch posted:

It's a death spiral. Puro doesn't get top-notch athletes, at least not heavyweights, like they used to. Smaller crowds and less money only exacerbate the problem. Japan had up and down cycles like the US, but this is much worse and much harder to dig out of.

Luckily for Puro, MMA hosed itself over in Japan so they might get some top notch young athletes who might have done MMA a few years ago. I'm surprised NOAH did run March/April Budokan shows this year, it seemed like they had cut back on Budokans this year.

# ? Dec 18, 2008 04:14

hunnert car pileup: Oct 28, 2007; the first world was a mistake

MassRayPer posted:

Luckily for Puro, MMA hosed itself over in Japan so they might get some top notch young athletes who might have done MMA a few years ago. I'm surprised NOAH did run March/April Budokan shows this year, it seemed like they had cut back on Budokans this year.

But you also have to wonder how many guys nowadays are wiling to put up with the bullshit that allegedly goes on in the dojos.

And it is so drat disheartening to think AJPW hasn't run the Budokan in nearly 5 years now. :smith:

# ? Dec 18, 2008 04:28

coconono: Aug 11, 2004; KISS ME KRIS

MassRayPer posted:

Luckily for Puro, MMA hosed itself over in Japan so they might get some top notch young athletes who might have done MMA a few years ago. I'm surprised NOAH did run March/April Budokan shows this year, it seemed like they had cut back on Budokans this year.

I dunno. MMA and puro have the same problem: the japan market's really thin. Which means occasional trips overseas(which aren't cheap, fiscally or emotionally). I think you're going see more younger athletes move towards baseball, soccer or even cricket(!) than choose either MMA or puro. And this is simply because of local availability.

# ? Dec 18, 2008 05:04

Ditch: Jul 29, 2003; Backdrop Hunger

http://pulsewrestling.com/2008/12/18/puroresu-pulse-issue-139-the-ark-is-sinking/
This week: NOAH talk, plus non-Kobashi best of '08.

# ? Dec 18, 2008 19:50

coconono: Aug 11, 2004; KISS ME KRIS

is there something special about the venue that BJW runs out of? It's been featured in several Fire Pro games.

# ? Dec 19, 2008 02:21

Gordy: Sep 6, 2002

the Men's Club match isn't working, Megaupload says it deleted it

It sucks that Dragongate has stopped doing the lucharesu sprint, it doesn't seem like any puro show that I can get a hold of does them anymore.

# ? Dec 19, 2008 04:29

hunnert car pileup: Oct 28, 2007; the first world was a mistake

Gordy posted:

It sucks that Dragongate has stopped doing the lucharesu sprint, it doesn't seem like any puro show that I can get a hold of does them anymore.

I'm fine with this. When you can accurately predict about 5/8 of the spots in every tag match before they hit, it's time to give it a rest.

# ? Dec 19, 2008 06:15

Ditch: Jul 29, 2003; Backdrop Hunger

Men's Club is working, it might have been down temporarily. You get what you pay for.

coconono posted:

is there something special about the venue that BJW runs out of? It's been featured in several Fire Pro games.

Most of the BJPW matches in there are from Korakuen Hall, which is the most used venue in pro wrestling. Every major fed runs there at least once a tour (usually at the start), and smaller feds use it for 'big' shows.

# ? Dec 19, 2008 15:57

Gordy: Sep 6, 2002

This link?

http://www.megaupload.com/?d= CJD1U7XI

Still not working for me at least.

edit: Didn't see the space in there, that must be the problem.

# ? Dec 19, 2008 16:05

Ditch: Jul 29, 2003; Backdrop Hunger

Thanks, I noted it in the comments since I can't edit the post now.

# ? Dec 19, 2008 16:43

sigmachiev: Dec 31, 2007; Fighting blood excels

HulkaMatt posted:

*Jushin "Thunder Liger" 20th Anniversary Match: Jushin "Thunder Liger" & Takuma Sano vs. Wataru Inoue & Koji Kanemoto

*Crusade for Justice: Yuji Nagata vs. Masato Tanaka

AWESOME CARD.

Haven't chimed in on this show but, finally, 1/4 is a day in wrestling to get excited about again. This card is ridiculous and I hope they top 30,000 (and think they will).

As for why I make note of these (clearly there are some really cool bouts aside from the above).

1. The tag match disappoints me to no end because it's an instant reminder that all of Liger's best opponents are dead. How fun would it have been to see him vs. Pillman here? Also I would have much rather have seen him vs. Koji in a single.

2. Holy poo poo Nagata vs. Tanaka is going to be the sleeper and I can't wait for this.

Also, a good time for Mutoh to lose I think.

# ? Dec 19, 2008 20:18

sigmachiev: Dec 31, 2007; Fighting blood excels

M.Kishiwada posted:

I got into puro thanks to the J Cup, but Kobashi's match with Akiyama in Dec. 2000 made me a fan of his for life.

We are the same. That December 2000 match makes my top 10 list. It's sort of like my puro equivalent to Hart/Perfect from Summerslam in that it's not the greatest technical match but gently caress it, still way cooler and a favorite more than those "better" ones.

NOAH losing TV sucks and is just another step towards the 3-company working agreement becoming more and more regular.

# ? Dec 19, 2008 20:23

hunnert car pileup: Oct 28, 2007; the first world was a mistake

sigmachiev posted:

1. The tag match disappoints me to no end because it's an instant reminder that all of Liger's best opponents are dead. How fun would it have been to see him vs. Pillman here? Also I would have much rather have seen him vs. Koji in a single.

His partner was one of his best opponents. :v:

# ? Dec 19, 2008 21:22

coconono: Aug 11, 2004; KISS ME KRIS

Ditch posted:

Men's Club is working, it might have been down temporarily. You get what you pay for.

Most of the BJPW matches in there are from Korakuen Hall, which is the most used venue in pro wrestling. Every major fed runs there at least once a tour (usually at the start), and smaller feds use it for 'big' shows.

I thought Korakuen was the theater-like place? The one I'm thinking of is someone's warehouse.

# ? Dec 19, 2008 21:39

Ditch: Jul 29, 2003; Backdrop Hunger

Well, Kimura vs Miyamoto took place at Koshigaya Katsura Studio, which is not any sort of important venue at all. What match in particular are you thinking of that took place at the venue?

# ? Dec 20, 2008 17:37

Wazzu: Feb 28, 2008; Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

Has anybody actually seen a Japanese person do a Japanese armdrag?

# ? Dec 21, 2008 02:31

coconono: Aug 11, 2004; KISS ME KRIS

Ditch posted:

Well, Kimura vs Miyamoto took place at Koshigaya Katsura Studio, which is not any sort of important venue at all. What match in particular are you thinking of that took place at the venue?

That's the one I was thinking of. I've seen BJPW do TV tapings(like eps 10-20) there before and its likeness is in FPR. I've also seen other J-indy feds work there too. Like the glorious 666 episode where that crazy bastard nearly blew himself up with a firework suicide vest and then turned the announcer's scaffolding into a mobile roman candle-tastrophe.

# ? Dec 21, 2008 05:34

sigmachiev: Dec 31, 2007; Fighting blood excels

Wazzu posted:

Has anybody actually seen a Japanese person do a Japanese armdrag?

Tiger Mask 1 did 'em all the time to Dynamite.

# ? Dec 21, 2008 07:25

Ditch: Jul 29, 2003; Backdrop Hunger

More Meltzer-on-NOAH:

quote:

Exactly what the future holds for Pro Wrestling NOAH is very much in question with the news of Nippon TV canceling television when the current Japanese TV season ends at the end of March.

It�s a double whammy for the company, because the major revenue streams are event ticket sales and merchandise, the television rights fees and company sponsorships. The loss of weekly network television, even though it was in a bad time slot, eliminates most of the rights fees, and will cut greatly into both the company�s attractiveness to getting sponsors, as well as greatly lower the value of those sponsorships. It�s a given it will also hurt ticket sales, but because of the nature of Japanese pro wrestling, the smaller spot show attendance will be hurt, but that will be the least of the problems. But the house show business in Japan is in many cases based around local promoters buying tour shows and marketing and selling the tickets in their area, and losing television lowers the value of the product in that regard as well. There is a certain degree of hardcore brand loyalty to the product, considered the last vestiges of the glory days of 90s All Japan Pro Wrestling, a more straight-forward style and the top-level in-ring product. But even with television, the group was in a tough economic climate as the only real draws, Mitsuharu Misawa and Kenta Kobashi, were aging and breaking down, and ultimately it was inevitable they could no longer be relied on. If you made a graph of the highs and lows of the company since its inception, they almost directly correlate with the ins and outs of Kobashi.

But while his return from cancer last December was one of the high points in wrestling anywhere in the world in recent years, his physical decline was apparent. He worked a limited schedule, with no singles matches, and ended up breaking down and needing elbow surgery. The promise of a match of the year with KENTA vs. Naomichi Marufuji doing a 60:00 draw before 10,000 fans was a very good sign as it was the first time the new guard with no help were the ones who clearly drew a good crowd. The same two flopped at the gate on October 29, 2006 (about 5,000 paid and 7,000 total) which caused the company to abort Marufuji�s GHC title reign. But the year-end show only did 7,500, although putting Akitoshi Saito in a GHC title match on top at Budokan Hall was a death knell. It�s considered largely a matter of time where the Budokan Hall shows, which carry the promotion both from an economic standpoint and from a public interest and status standpoint, will be a thing of the past. Most expect NOAH to, in a year or so, to be nothing more than a high level independent promotion, at a slightly higher level that where All Japan seems to have stabilized at.

While the first word was the G+, NTV�s satellite channel, would continue wrestling by airing old tapes, they are holding out hope they would air new programming and continue to air the big shows live. From an exposure standpoint, the best you could say is it�s better than nothing. G+ is only in four million of the approximately 57 million Japanese households. NOAH had already lost 12% of its national coverage with the September loss of the Osaka market in NTV�s Yomiuri TV affiliate.

G+ is believed to pay NOAH about $1 million per year in TV rights fees, which NOAH may still get as rights fees even if they don�t tape new shows, but nothing at this point is definite. But even if they did, it would not be nearly enough to operate the company at anywhere near the level it has been. The price NTV was paying for the late night time slot was unknown, but they were paying $250,000 per television show in the late 80s and early 90s for All Japan. Even though prices of everything increase, it is believed NOAH�s deal was not that lucrative.

The dropping on wrestling was because NTV was forced to make $200 million in budget cuts for 2009, and wrestling, being a low priority as a Sunday late-night show, was one of the first things eliminated. It was more economy, as a drop in advertising put every network in Japan in the red. NTV�s other long-lasting tradition, the Tokyo Yomiuri Giants baseball, is also being cut back as far as the number of games airing as a cost-saving measure.

# ? Dec 24, 2008 21:01

coconono: Aug 11, 2004; KISS ME KRIS

Ditch posted:

More Meltzer-on-NOAH:

Meltzer hits on a salient point(albeit inadvertently). The thing that has killed every wrestling promotion has been the lack of pushing new stars. NOAH has KENTA and Marufuji but they're not really at the forefront of the company anymore.

# ? Dec 25, 2008 02:42

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

coconono posted:

Meltzer hits on a salient point(albeit inadvertently). The thing that has killed every wrestling promotion has been the lack of pushing new stars. NOAH has KENTA and Marufuji but they're not really at the forefront of the company anymore.

KENTA and Marufuji aren't really going to be big money draws in the future. They have a chance with Go, but they really need Kobashi to get back in time to really elevate him.

What they really need to pray for is Kobashi to be able to return and face Kensuke which would sell out the Budokan and then do a program with Go.

# ? Dec 25, 2008 03:39

Ditch: Jul 29, 2003; Backdrop Hunger

The problem is that KENTA and Marufuji are "MOTYC-generating juniors" instead of main event stars with big-time rivalries. NOAH's failure to put the young guys in firm stables has (for now) collapsed one of the core tenants not only of Baba booking, but puro booking as a whole. Marufuji vs KENTA would mean a lot more if they were in charge of stables, and stables with heavyweights in them at that. Or they can be co-heads of a stable that is booked as a peer to a stable of heavies. There's really no limit to the options that aren't being explored now that the company decided THEY DON'T NEED ANY BOOKING WHATSOEVER.

What's driving me crazy is that any shmuck wrestling fan off the street would do a better job. I couldn't run WWE better than Vince, or New Japan better than Jado & Gedo. But any of us would be better running NOAH than Akiyama because we'd actually try.

# ? Dec 25, 2008 06:19

hunnert car pileup: Oct 28, 2007; the first world was a mistake

It still pisses me off to think how NJ has hosed Tenzan over so many times. I remember being so stoked when he won the G1 and later the IWGP belt in '03, only to lose it on his 1st defense. :ughh:

TenKoji

# ? Dec 25, 2008 19:43

sigmachiev: Dec 31, 2007; Fighting blood excels

MassRayPer posted:

What they really need to pray for is Kobashi to be able to return and face Kensuke which would sell out the Budokan and then do a program with Go.

This is a nice plan.

Thing that strikes me as funny is that if you look back in time, the top starts of the 80s (Tsuruta for instance) started passing the torch around 90/91. This current crop of leaders who benefited from that have held onto power for nearly twice as long. And it's caught up them.

That and they bailed on making awesome foreign stars (this is a lesser problem but one nonetheless).

# ? Dec 25, 2008 19:57

Nut Bunnies: May 24, 2005; Fun Shoe

The problem with awesome foreign stars is that all the most talented US heavyweights are pretty much locked up with WWE. Bryan Danielson is great but he was never going to be the new Hansen. Guys like Bison had the other half of the equation but they never got anyone who was skilled in the ring and also a formidable looking guy.

# ? Dec 25, 2008 21:16

HulkaMatt: Feb 14, 2006; BIG BICEPS SHOHEI

AS WE SPEAK BRYAN DANIELSON VS. KENTA IS BEING UPLOADED TO YOUTUBE

Part 1~!
Part 2~!
Part 3~!

HulkaMatt fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Dec 25, 2008

# ? Dec 25, 2008 23:30

JavyOO7: Dec 4, 2005; y halo thar?

Danielson looks great with the beard, I barely see him wrestle but that's the first time I've seen him with a beard on.

# ? Dec 26, 2008 08:23

Ditch: Jul 29, 2003; Backdrop Hunger

JavyOO7 posted:

Danielson looks great with the beard, I barely see him wrestle but that's the first time I've seen him with a beard on.

Go watch him in late '04-early '05 STAT.

# ? Dec 26, 2008 15:13

HulkaMatt: Feb 14, 2006; BIG BICEPS SHOHEI

Ditch I need my yearly fix of NOAH wrestlers singing Christmas carols.

# ? Dec 27, 2008 07:41

TheDuelies: Jul 13, 2005; I'd go gay for this goggle-eyed freak!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OPNH9IZDt8&feature=channel

KENTA and Marufuji rush from the arena to get to their dates, complete with a Christmas musical intermission!

# ? Dec 27, 2008 18:37

HulkaMatt: Feb 14, 2006; BIG BICEPS SHOHEI

Tags:
kenta marufuji dates noah misawa izumida mariah carey

# ? Dec 27, 2008 20:20

Wazzu: Feb 28, 2008; Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

TheDuelies posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OPNH9IZDt8&feature=channel

KENTA and Marufuji rush from the arena to get to their dates, complete with a Christmas musical intermission!

But...it said 2006 up top....

But still good fun. Also, Akiyama looked like he was just wandering around the park at midnight, looking for a man to kill.

# ? Dec 28, 2008 08:46

HulkaMatt: Feb 14, 2006; BIG BICEPS SHOHEI

Well that's cuz it's from the old christmas special.

# ? Dec 28, 2008 08:47

HulkaMatt: Feb 14, 2006; BIG BICEPS SHOHEI

DOIIIIIIIIIIIII

quote:

12/28/2008 Fukuoka, Fukuoka Kokusai Center

1. Super Shisa{W}, Shisa BOY, Super Shenlong (Yoshitonic) Kenichiro Arai{L}, The Turboman, Jorge Rivera

2. Don Fujii, Magnitude Kishiwada{W} (Last Ride) Akira Tozawa, Anthony W. Mori{L}

3. Hollywood Stalker Ichikawa Bosou 10 Match Series #7: Akebono (Running Body Press) Hollywood Stalker Ichikawa

4. Masaaki Mochizuki (Shin Saikyou High Kick) Taku Iwasa

5. Unit Split Survival 3 Way 6 Man Tag: Ryo Saito, Susumu Yokosuka, Dragon Kid vs. Yasushi Kanda, Genki Horiguchi, Gamma vs. BxB Hulk, Naoki Tanisaki, m.c.KZ
-KZ (Skayde schoolboy) Susumu
-Gamma (Nadare-shiki Tombstone Piledriver) Saito

6. Open the Twin Gate: YAMATO{W}, Cyber Kong (Sleeper Hold->Ref Stop) CIMA{L}, Jushin Thunder Lyger
*V2 for YAMAKong

7. Open the Dream Gate: Naruki Doi (Muscular Bomb) Shingo Takagi
*Shingo fails in V4, Doi becomes the 10th Champion

Typhoon has to break up :saddowns:

# ? Dec 28, 2008 22:37

hunnert car pileup: Oct 28, 2007; the first world was a mistake

HulkaMatt posted:

DOIIIIIIIIIIIII

Typhoon has to break up

So Doi will probably ~~lose~~ defend the belt against CIMA at Sumo Hall then?

NO BUYS.

# ? Dec 28, 2008 22:43

sigmachiev: Dec 31, 2007; Fighting blood excels

M.Kishiwada posted:

So Doi will probably ~~lose~~ defend the belt against CIMA at Sumo Hall then?

NO BUYS.

When is this show, like March? What else is on tap for it?

# ? Dec 28, 2008 23:26

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 17:32

Wazzu: Feb 28, 2008; Are you sure I'm winning the Rumble? That does'nt seem right.....

Yay the ten match series is back, shame it includes akebono. Otherwise, it's sad to learn that tozawa-juku have graduated, and now akira tozawa is in a stable with shingo, because I loved the idea behind tozawa-juju. Akira tozawa as a serious wrestler?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=dxHuRtHicX0

# ? Dec 29, 2008 01:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Puroresu News/Views: The only thing that makes sense is money laundering.

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