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wyoming posted:By not doing this. This feels like really all I need to see of this show. Anyway, this movie was serviceable, not great, not awful, and not memorable. It also seemed to drag interminably in the middle and the ending was underwhelming. It is the epic drama of watching a woman learn that humans are actually responsible for their own decisions. At least it proves that women headlining mediocre summer tentpoles can be normalized.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:14
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dont even fink about it posted:This feels like really all I need to see of this show. Wonder Woman may be babby's first critique of ideology, but that puts it a step above most other films in the genre. The many, many parts where Steve Trevor carefully explains the basic themes of the previous three films to a terrified, uncomprehending Diana are just a distraction from the more interested big stuff about the made-up mythology. Like the opening shot that seamlessly transitions from a cartoonish vision of the world to a 'realistic' Paris - equating them, while also emphasizing the cloudy space between the two. People don't talk about that, or even think about that, because they're fixated on the exposition.
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Jul 5, 2017 20:00
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dont even fink about it posted:Anyway, this movie was serviceable, not great, not awful, and not memorable. It also seemed to drag interminably in the middle and the ending was underwhelming. It is the epic drama of watching a woman learn that humans are actually responsible for their own decisions.
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Jul 5, 2017 20:21
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TychoCelchuuu posted:I thought the entire loving point of the movie was that it's not about what humans are responsible for, it's about what she believes. Like don't they literally say that twice or something. No; they repeatedly say that 'it's not about what humans deserve.' Humans do not deserve a benevolent god looking out for them, but Diana loves them anyways. As part of this conclusion, she declares that they are each responsible for the suffering in the world. Freedom comes from assuming the terrifying burden of responsibility. There are no excuses, like "I'm just doing God's will", or whatever. To this end, Diana refuses to act as a god. She is "the god-killer".
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Jul 6, 2017 00:14
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She was the hero humans needed. Not the hero they deserved.
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Jul 6, 2017 00:30
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Saw this last night and it felt kind of vile to be honest. It felt a lot like a pg13 version of sucker punch which I unfortunately have watched. On the surface it was a bland super hero movie with okay action scenes, with the generic do good moral. Underneath is where it got evil. Lots of negative reinforcement that looks are very important, wether it is women should never be fat or men shouldn't have small penises. And god forbid wonder woman look like she ever flexes a muscle in the film, must have smooth features everywhere. Sadly that's just standard Hollywood. I really hated the scenes that portrayed hee as naive and the viewer as smart though. Generals don't fight? Oh sorry that's not how the world works. World leaders are responsible for the big picture, you can only work to change the situation you're in. Little suprise the secretary of treasury himself puts his name in proudly as executive producer. The list goes on. At least three movie got multiple tax credits from the Canadian government.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:03
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:
That wasn't her being naive and the viewer smart. That was the world being wrong and her being right. Also sorry Gal Gadot's body doesn't meet your specifications. John Wick of Dogs fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 19:21
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Al Borland Corp. posted:That wasn't her being naive and the viewer smart. That was the world being wrong and her being right. The surface was her being right sure. How many Amazon gods were viewers? Not every scene is as it appears on the surface. And no complaints about her being attractive. Lots of complaints about her looking magazine cover airbrushed in every scene.
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Jul 9, 2017 19:39
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:Underneath is where it got evil. Lots of negative reinforcement that looks are very important, wether it is women should never be fat or men shouldn't have small penises. And god forbid wonder woman look like she ever flexes a muscle in the film, must have smooth features everywhere. Sadly that's just standard Hollywood. I'm not sure I get your argument here. I'm trying to remember a moment in the film that reinforces the idea that looks are important and I'm coming up blank. Are you implying that maybe they should have cast different actors as Diana and Trevor? Someone not as lithe and slender as Gadot or someone with a smaller dick than Pine? Lmao. The dick scene was played for laughs. It was a joke. Gal also looked really toned throughout the film, so I'm not sure what your complaint is there. The work she put it in is mostly showed off during the No Man's Land breach and liberating Veld:   There's literally also a scene from that Veld sequence in one of the the trailers where she crushes a rifle in slow motion and her arm flexing is clearly in focus:  Where you expecting a scene showing off Gal's physique under the "male/female gaze" like a majority of other superhero films where they typically have a scene to highlight the hero's physique? I'm personally happy that they didn't do that. teagone fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 20:21
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1st_Panzer_Div. posted:Underneath is where it got evil. Oh yeah, tons of evil. Wonder Woman wins in the end though so it's all good.
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Jul 9, 2017 20:28
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teagone posted:I'm not sure I get your argument here. I'm trying to remember a moment in the film that reinforces the idea that looks are important and I'm coming up blank. Are you implying that maybe they should have cast different actors as Diana and Trevor? Someone not as lithe and slender as Gadot or someone with a smaller dick than Pine? Lmao. The dick scene was played for laughs. It was a joke. Gal also looked really toned throughout the film, so I'm not sure what your complaint is there. The work she put it in is mostly showed off during the No Man's Land breach and liberating Veld: Imagine WW in a Schumacher Batman style costume and suit up sequence. Lol MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jul 9, 2017 |
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Jul 9, 2017 20:36
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Well gently caress. Time for an eye exam it appears.
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Jul 9, 2017 21:34
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teagone posted:I'm not sure I get your argument here. I'm trying to remember a moment in the film that reinforces the idea that looks are important and I'm coming up blank. The two that come to mind are Steve losing his train of thought when taking to Dr Evil and her immediately disengaging because of it and the finale, where Ares unmasks her to talk about the unworthiness of the human species. I think he may have even said "look at her" once her ugliness is revealed. Edit: Counter to this is that the assistant never suggests romantic jealousy or resentment that I can recall although that would have been an easy element for them to fall back on.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:23
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For all the complaints about Gal's physical appearance I've read, no one sees to comment on the Steve Trevor aesthetic of lean, muscular, and waxed which probably wasn't the go to look for men in WW1.
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Jul 9, 2017 22:52
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Ape Agitator posted:The two that come to mind are Steve losing his train of thought when taking to Dr Evil and her immediately disengaging because of it[...] That's Maru's character interpretation of the situation, not the message the film is trying to get across. But I could see that. Still though, Steve getting distracted by Diana while "sweet talking" Maru can work on multiple levels in that scenario too; either he's captivated by Diana's beauty — which does make sense since he's totally in love with her — and/or (but mostly) because he's shook that she is jeopardizing his mission after explicitly telling her NOT to show up at the party, which is within the context of the narrative. quote:[...]and the finale, where Ares unmasks her to talk about the unworthiness of the human species. I think he may have even said "look at her" once her ugliness is revealed. Ares' message is that humans are inherently flawed and have an unlimited capacity to do terrible things to one another. I personally think Maru's disfigurement could (and should) be read as a representation of that, as opposed to some other message regarding "looks are everything" which I felt the film had absolutely no agenda towards. [edit] Ape Agitator posted:Edit: Counter to this is that the assistant never suggests romantic jealousy or resentment that I can recall although that would have been an easy element for them to fall back on. Right. Diana never talks down to Etta, despite her physical stature being so different than that of an Amazon warrior. That's never even a topic brought into question between the two. Cultural differences are discussed and exchanged, but that's it. I'd argue Diana sees her, and every other person, as an equal citizen of the world. She even trusts Etta to keep the godkiller sword and her shield safe, both timeless relics from Amazon history (I love that scene). teagone fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 00:44
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Ares telling Diana to look at Dr Maru was showing her humanities willingness to mutilate itself in our barbaric pursuits. Scarred by her own poisons she persists in concocting more to kill countless. imo But she doesn't crush her with a tank. She believes in more than what Ares is peddling. 
MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 01:07
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In the gala scene, as mentioned above, Steve is distracted because he knows what Diana is going try and do. However, Maru views his distraction as a commentary on her as has a "heh, typical man" type reaction. In the final battle with Ares, Maru's mask is blown away and Ares tells Diana to look at Maru and recognize humanity for what it is; ugly. In both of those scenes physical appearance is assumed to be a motivator for action but in fact it wasn't. Steve wasn't distracted by Diana's beauty but rather by the knowledge of what she was going to do. Diana didn't kill Maru because she was ugly or evil but spared her because all humans have the capacity for good and evil and deserve redemption.
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Jul 10, 2017 01:21
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Most people do not in fact look like Gal Gadot and Chris Pine. It'd be nice if protagonists weren't always picture perfect human specimens. How is this controversial you idiots
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Jul 10, 2017 01:54
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Mr. Apollo posted:In the gala scene, as mentioned above, Steve is distracted because he knows what Diana is going try and do. However, Maru views his distraction as a commentary on her as has a "heh, typical man" type reaction. I don't know. I read his reaction at the party to be essentially identical to his reaction to her in business-spy attire in London. Just floored by beauty. If Chris Pine was intending "Damnit, what is she doing here" it didn't work for me and I think he'd have been capable of conveying that if he wanted to. The ripping off Dr Evil's mask at the end was a choice on their part and stood out to me as very suspect. I have a very hard time not equating visual ugliness with his persuasive argument that humanity was unworthy of her attention/protection/love. I mean, preserve the mask if visual ugliness is not inferred to be a fatal flaw. It's never even mentioned if Dr Evil was a victim of the disfigurement or if it was self inflicted. I assume it was a result of her experiments which essentially puts the blame at Ares anyway. So he had created his perfect argument representation - despicable, cowering, and ugly. It just felt very out of place to me like a lot of things from the finale. More like it was from an original script draft in a similar vein to the terrible Catwoman movie, where a woman's visual ugliness is some fatal flaw.
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Jul 10, 2017 01:56
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Vegetable posted:Most people do not in fact look like Gal Gadot and Chris Pine. It'd be nice if protagonists weren't always picture perfect human specimens. How is this controversial you idiots That's not what is being argued. 1st_Panzer_Div. saying "Underneath is where [Wonder Woman] got evil. Lots of negative reinforcement that looks are very important [...]" is what's controversial here, because the film never sends that kind of message or pushes that kind of agenda in its subtext. [edit] Ape Agitator posted:I don't know. I read his reaction at the party to be essentially identical to his reaction to her in business-spy attire in London. Just floored by beauty. If Chris Pine was intending "Damnit, what is she doing here" it didn't work for me and I think he'd have been capable of conveying that if he wanted to. It can work both ways imo. Read Trevor's reaction however you like. But once he notices Diana, he immediately confronts her and implores her to stop what she's doing. I don't recall him making a comment about her dress or how beautiful she looks in that scene either. I might be wrong though, but I do remember they were at odds with one another in a prior scene which helps sell Steve's reaction as more "What is she doing here?!" than "Wow, she is stunning." but it could be a mix of both. Mr. Apollo noting Maru's "typical man" reaction is on point though. teagone fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 02:02
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teagone posted:That's not what is being argued. 1st_Panzer_Div. saying "Underneath is where [Wonder Woman] got evil. Lots of negative reinforcement that looks are very important [...]" is what's controversial here, because the film never sends that kind of message or pushes that kind of agenda in its subtext. Movie women looking impossibly skinny and smooth has literally been cultural criticism 101 since the 80s
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Jul 10, 2017 02:10
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Vegetable posted:I'm responding to the discussion a few posts up where he said Gal Gadot looked slender and sleek then some idiot said "sorry her body doesn't live up to your specifications" Shoulda quoted what you were responding to then since you dropped your post right in the midst of the discussion haha. But even then, it's not like Gal was impossibly skinny in Wonder Woman. She packed on somewhere between 15 to 20 pounds of muscle. That's a lot, and it shows in the GIFs I embedded. Even 1st_Panzer_Div acknowledged the examples I provided, unless he was being facetious with his "I need my eyes checked" comment. Gal's transformation into WW looked great, and was fairly accurate to several interpretations of the character from the comics.
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Jul 10, 2017 02:20
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Ape Agitator posted:I don't know. I read his reaction at the party to be essentially identical to his reaction to her in business-spy attire in London. Just floored by beauty. If Chris Pine was intending "Damnit, what is she doing here" it didn't work for me and I think he'd have been capable of conveying that if he wanted to. I figured that the shopping scene and Steve's constant references to Diana being "too distracting" are enough clues that he realizes that she is ridiculously attractive.
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Jul 10, 2017 02:21
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I thought Gadot's appearance was a good blend between feminine and tough. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Jul 10, 2017 02:25
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Mr. Apollo posted:I thought Gadot's appearance was a good blend between feminine and tough. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Do they have to be mutually exclusive?
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Jul 10, 2017 03:53
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MariusLecter posted:Do they have to be mutually exclusive?
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Jul 10, 2017 04:29
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Mr. Apollo posted:Fair enough. I read it as more of an "oh poo poo" moment due to the way he stops her just as she's about to draw her sword and tells her she can't kill Ares and asks her what if she's wrong. She is distracting. But I read his reaction at the ball to definitely be an "oh poo poo"; at the very least, he's seen her before so shouldn't act surprised. Maru looked back, saw an attractive woman, and assumed Trevor was just being a typical male. e. Mr. Apollo posted:No, I'm just thinking more along the lines of how "tough women" are sometimes portrayed as macho or masculine or men that follow a women's lead are portrayed as incompetent or bumbling. One of the things I really like about WW is that both of those tropes are subverted. The film acknowledges that Diana is achingly beautiful, but Gal Godot put on muscle to play the role. Then it sets up Trevor and his merry men as good at their jobs, brave veterans of many a desperate situation, and they follow Diana's lead unquestioningly because she a demigoddess damnit. mllaneza fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jul 10, 2017 |
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Jul 10, 2017 05:15
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I thought WW was a good kids movie that I, and my family, enjoyed. I guess we're pretty stupid.
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Jul 10, 2017 05:16
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spacetoaster posted:I thought WW was a good kids movie that I, and my family, enjoyed.
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Jul 10, 2017 05:19
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Vegetable posted:You're pretty stupid for thinking you can't like a movie and criticize it at the same time I know. I can't believe I missed all the "evil" in this movie.
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Jul 10, 2017 05:21
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spacetoaster posted:I know. I can't believe I missed all the "evil" in this movie. The 'evil' was that one guy thought it was making fun of his dick. You don't have much to worry about.
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Jul 10, 2017 05:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The 'evil' was that one guy thought it was making fun of his dick. You don't have much to worry about. I'm so very worried about it (all the vile evil that is). https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3820776&perpage=40&pagenumber=47#post474193697
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Jul 10, 2017 05:27
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mllaneza posted:One of the things I really like about WW is that both of those tropes are subverted. The film acknowledges that Diana is achingly beautiful, but Gal Godot put on muscle to play the role. Then it sets up Trevor and his merry men as good at their jobs, brave veterans of many a desperate situation, and they follow Diana's lead unquestioningly because she a demigoddess damnit.
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Jul 10, 2017 05:55
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Mr. Apollo posted:Just to expand on that, it was nice to see that Steve and his squad instantly recognized that Diana was supremely capable and the best way they could help was to support her. There wasn't a character who insisted that they'd never follow a woman into battle but comes to realize that maybe women can be capable fighters too by the end of the movie. Yeah, Diana is just a force of nature, effectively, that they fall in with and support without question, because of who she is and how competent she is. No questions, no playing with the concept, Diana is a badass' badass and that removes gender from the question.
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Jul 10, 2017 06:08
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The 'evil' was that one guy thought it was making fun of his dick. You don't have much to worry about. Oh nooooo... spacetoaster posted:I'm so very worried about it (all the vile evil that is). Step away. Abort. Abort.
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Jul 10, 2017 07:17
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Maybe this is a dumb question but did all the Amazons know the truth about Diana or just Hippolyta, Antiope and a few select Amazons? I'm wondering because if they all knew then having the God Killer sword secured in the tower doesn't make sense. Like all that back story just to keep Diana in the dark but the rest of the items in the tower are what they claim to be? I understand why it was needed as a plot device and that's fine, but it was just one of those things that crossed my mind when I was thinking about the movie.
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Jul 10, 2017 15:25
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It was probably a somewhat important sword regardless, just not God killing.
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Jul 10, 2017 15:30
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That's a good point and I hadn't considered that. It could still have been a divine weapon, just not for killing gods.
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Jul 10, 2017 15:46
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Mr. Apollo posted:Maybe this is a dumb question but did all the Amazons know the truth about Diana or just Hippolyta, Antiope and a few select Amazons? I'm wondering because if they all knew then having the God Killer sword secured in the tower doesn't make sense. Like all that back story just to keep Diana in the dark but the rest of the items in the tower are what they claim to be? No, it's an interesting question, but I have a feeling that only a few Amazons knew about Diana's true nature. Speaking of the Amazons, I kinda bummed that the movie wasn't brave enough to show that, shockingly, an island full of women may have some lesbians in it. I know they had to keep the movie "family friendly", but it's still kind of a shame. Like, in the boat scene, where Steve was explaining marriage, Diana could have said something like, "Oh, my aunt and her lover had a ceremony like that". Obviously my suggestion isn't groundbreaking LGBT representation, but would have been something.
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Jul 10, 2017 15:57
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Well she did say men are not necessary for sexual pleasure
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Jul 10, 2017 16:02
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