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weekly font posted:Shadow Raid is good
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Nov 18, 2020 23:30
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Discendo Vox posted:Safehouse nightmare, cursed kill room, henry's rock and lab rats all want a word. I will admit I forgot Safehouse Nightmare existed, and that one takes Worst Heist. Car Shop's still absolute bottom tier, though.
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Nov 19, 2020 00:19
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Tempest_56 posted:Even fixed repeatedly, Car Shop remains possibly the worst heist in the game and easily in the bottom three. it’s not even close to being the worst when the halloween heists and breakin’ feds exist. car shop is fine, not amazing and not the best stealth heist but it’s short and relatively simple while still allowing multiple ways of getting into and moving around the shop and enough rng variation to spice it up a bit. would i rather play it than some of the great loud heists? oh god no but it’s nowhere near the worst time i’ve had in the game
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Nov 19, 2020 01:10
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What is worse, car shop with armor bags or car shop with sentry guns? Discuss.
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Nov 19, 2020 01:57
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Worst stealth heist is probably either White House or border crossing.
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Nov 19, 2020 02:23
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Discendo Vox posted:Worst stealth heist is probably either White House or border crossing. I'd put Breaking Feds up there too.
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Nov 19, 2020 02:48
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Are there any mods that make some of those bad stealth levels better? I want to finish breaking feds and car shop at some point, but playing them is so unfun.
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Nov 19, 2020 06:55
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Discendo Vox posted:
I completely disagree with this due to the lack of any intermediate failure stage, but we can agree to disagree. John Murdoch posted:Also FWIW it's not like success in shoot cop isn't often determined by random factors as well. Untrue, success in shoot cop is determined by how many people bring auto shotguns with Dragon's Breath rounds.
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Nov 19, 2020 09:00
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Wastrel_ posted:Untrue, success in shoot cop is determined by how many people bring auto shotguns with Dragon's Breath rounds. And/or ace inspire 
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Nov 19, 2020 15:54
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Wastrel_ posted:I completely disagree with this due to the lack of any intermediate failure stage, but we can agree to disagree.
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Nov 19, 2020 17:10
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Discendo Vox posted:Worst stealth heist is probably either White House or border crossing. On revision I think it goes to white house or breakfast in tijuana. Breakfast in tijuana has a stealth layout that's just nonsensical and can make the player lockpick a door in front of a camera that's on four guards' patrols. White house combines horrible guard patrol points, blind corners, constant pinching concerns, and a marathon series of objectives (including some unfair ones) with ruinous performance. Border crossing gets honorable mention because of its marathon layout and the incredible number of ways guard pathing can break. Breaking Feds is miserable but can be learnt; safe spots are unintuitive in the second half of the map, but they exist.
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Nov 20, 2020 01:39
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Discendo Vox posted:On revision I think it goes to white house or breakfast in tijuana. White House gets extra awful points for giving me a bug where a guard with a pager drops dead at the 10 minute mark in front of his friends 
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Nov 20, 2020 02:07
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The main reason people like stealth in this game is that there aren't a lot of alternatives for FPS multiplayer stealth. You've got asymmetrical horror stuff, there are isometric and top down games, but PvE co op stealth is rather rare. Stealth in general is a popular gameplay style (See: Thief, MGS, Dishonored, etc.), and doing it with your friends is almost always more fun. While Payday 2 isn't a perfect implementation, it has limited competition.
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Nov 20, 2020 02:23
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Some notes on stealthing Buluc's Mansion. As always, there's no substitute for learning where guards patrol and stand- there are some really nasty spots this time around. 1. Take boat entry. Dear god this is vital. The boat entrance is where more than half of the loot in the map is, making it far easier to secure. Equally importantly, the steps from the cellar to the main floor provide a safe spot in the part of the mansion that's far nastiest to navigate. 2. On that note, the two sides of the mansion are the garage side and the cellar side. The cellar side is a nightmare with only one truly safe room, several overlapping guard patrols, multiple civilian pairs, and lots of blind corners. The garage side, by contrast, has a string of safe rooms with little gaps in between, only 3 guards, and no civilians. Try to spend your time navigating the garage side. The bedroom and interiors of all randomized rooms on this side are safe. The bathroom is not. 3. The cafeteria spycam is bugged and points mostly at a wall- do not take it. The others, especially the patio, are good value. The garage door has some, but limited utility. 4. The guards patrolling the exterior balconies do not have pagers- they technically have different models to show this, but it's not easy to see. Ice them to make moving around the front much safer. 5. Each of Buluc's special bodyguards has a patrol with at least one stop at the party, as well as two stops in different fairly isolated "kill spots" in the map to make removing them easier. The horrible thing is that these kill spots often cover places that would otherwise be safe for the player. Each bodyguard is randomly assigned a name and one of the four patrols. a. "Piano area" patrol stops either in the cafeteria room (the place you get the wires, where he stares out the window and can ambush players who think it's a saferoom) or just outside the doors leading outside from the piano room. b. "Front door" stops immediately outside the door next to the main door. This spot is relatively isolated other than the guard patrolling outside. Watch your angle on the civilians in the piano room. I don't know where else he stops yet- it's either in the kitchen or in the hall immediately next to the garage, and isn't a good ambush point. c. "Back hall" will either stop in the bathroom next to the bedroom (a safe ambush spot) or stand right in front of the sanctum access point. d. "Garage" will stand in the garage, which is annoyingly right next to a patrol point for one of the guards. I don't know where else he stops yet- it's either in the kitchen or in the hall immediately next to the garage, and isn't a good ambush point. 4. The mission will give you the statue or the keycard objective based on whichever door you get close to first. You want the door on the garage side of the mansion because that area's safer, but be aware that if you have the statue objective, the scythe may not be in a safe place. The globe is always on the upper floor. 5. Getting upstairs sucks because as has happened before, Overkill are using stationary civilians as path blockers, and on high difficulties they block every staircase. They cannot be safely pathed past, and tying them down is incredibly unsafe. It's unintuitive, but the main lobby of the building is a safer kill spot- no guards walk through that room, so with a shotgun push into the corner you just have to look out for cameras and the upper floor guard, who occasionally stands on the upper balcony. The cellar side staircase is a deathtrap with three or so guard patrols, two civilians, a possible scythe spawnpoint, and a window out into the main party area. Avoid if you can. The side staircase is a safe place to stash bodybags if you absolutely have to clean it out. 6. The inner sanctum area has few safe spots, but only one guard. The entrance stairs on the cellar side are safe, and you can navigate around the guard in the library room by using the bookshelf as an obstacle, but do not hang out near the library entrance- you can get sandwiched between the back hall bodyguard and the sanctum guard. 7. The meeting room area has no cover and a guard that can patrol out into the otherwise safe secret passage. Recommended pagers: I recommend taking out the camera guard (of course, his room is a vital pathing safe spot), the guard upstairs (who can sometimes trap players in a dead end hallway and who will stand watching the office entrance) and either the sanctum area or secret meeting room guard. Save one more pager for your inevitable fuckup when you try to get all loot. Loot: 12 bags of money, coke, and weapons in the cellar. Three bags coke on the table in the meeting room. One bag weapons in garage. Five easily missed small safes with a bag of coke each: 1. Upstairs bedroom 2. Sanctum library (especially missable) 3. Lower bedroom (safe) 4. Sanctum meeting room 5. Cafeteria (especially hazardous) The drills on these safes are short and don't break, but all other than the lower bedroom are in patrolled areas. Wait for the guard to move away, then immediately pick the safe. Having taken all these notes, I don't...actually know if the Buluc mansion guards alert off of lootbags. Something worth looking into, because there's a fair amount of annoying bag-moving through high-patrol areas.
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Nov 20, 2020 11:15
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I always understood that the main development philosophy for Payday 2 was stealth first, shoot later, so that having to fight was the true test. But that was back in times when leveling was hard and you had to deal with having 3 buddies around level 50-70, and getting that first 100 was so hard that you didn't want to Infamy, you wanted the power that it gave you. So the power creep was not there quite yet. I think they killed it by filling the game with guns. Stealth, in its content, is mostly unchanged from what it was at launch. There's uh I guess Six Sense aced (or wherever it is nowadays) letting you see guards via walls if you stand still for a while and that's it. ECMs are still used only to open very few locks, lockpicking exists unchanged (however the times are halved for everyone, thank gently caress) and nothing messes with the 4 pager limit. So stealth is very much content complete from the getgo. Meanwhile for the loud portion the game has been flooded with content. 4 guns every 2-4 weeks for 2 years non stop, more and more loud-only Heists as our progressively wacky antics piss off more and more people who just can't be fooled anymore, even the Stealth only ECMs got Feedback as a basic skill instead of having to ace the final skill in their skilltree with skill reworks. Oh and the new guns aren't level locked anymore, even players from lvl 0 can pick them up. The alternative to Stealth exists and it's more fun and better than before. I don't remember when everything was, but I think I never even attempted stealth after Payday 1 heists dropped and we got the second skilltree rework. I hope they implement some system allowing you to spec more for stealth instead of just "walk faster crouched", "be less suspicious" and "see guys through walls but only if you stand still" for Payday 3. And maybe get rid of levels alltogether, just replace everything with money. You can pick up any gun and any skill (up to a limit of skills) but you have to pay cold hard cash. No refunds on respecs either, gotta keep paying. Add some interesting skills like "first loot you pick up in a mission is automatically delivered to the drop-off", give us a sliding move to zoom from cover to cover, let us bribe cops on the spot, at gunpoint if you have to. Give us simultaneous objectives so more people can participate in stealth at once to progress, make some progress from stealth carry over to loud. Give us Robber-vision, allowing us to see guards vision cones and camera angles. Let us hack/call Bain to kill the lights in a room/house/bank/map so we can move around in darkness while everyone else is blind. Although I might not pick that up at all if they don't get Simon back on with some bangin tunes. 
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Nov 23, 2020 12:33
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Kikas posted:I always understood that the main development philosophy for Payday 2 was stealth first, shoot later, so that having to fight was the true test.  there are still unlock level gates for weapons, but like only 5~ weapons have an unlock level criteria past level 35, and nowadays you go from level 0 to 35 or so if you do any regular Bank Heist: Cash/Deposit/Gold/Random on Overkill and get more than 1 bag. Even if you don't have the permanent experience boosts from going infamous! If you're grinding through the 500 new infamies, your best friends are grinder since you're stuck in a suit for at least your first heist of the current infamy, and either the Predator/SPAS-12 with fire ammo or the RPK lmg, both available at level 0. Also bring back brother's keeper and make body bags and silent drills the 12-point total ace skill upgrade in their respective trees, remember that stuff?
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Nov 23, 2020 14:55
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On a scale of 1 to 10 how much of an rear end in a top hat am I for joining a death sentence shadow raid game by somebody that is infamy 100, discovering this person also has every single achievement unlocked at the exact same time, then firing an explosive arrow from my 3 detection build at a window to alert every enemy and thus doom the run to failure, then leaving immediately before any retaliation can come forth?
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Nov 25, 2020 05:46
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Nov 25, 2020 08:37
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On the other hand who cares, its not like PD2 is competitive.
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Nov 25, 2020 12:27
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EorayMel posted:On a scale of 1 to 10 how much of an rear end in a top hat am I for joining a death sentence shadow raid game by somebody that is infamy 100, discovering this person also has every single achievement unlocked at the exact same time, then firing an explosive arrow from my 3 detection build at a window to alert every enemy and thus doom the run to failure, then leaving immediately before any retaliation can come forth? About the same as going into express checkout with more than the item limit or stopping on a busy sidewalk to take a picture.
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Nov 25, 2020 14:21
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Nov 25, 2020 16:48
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EorayMel posted:On a scale of 1 to 10 how much of an rear end in a top hat am I for joining a death sentence shadow raid game by somebody that is infamy 100, discovering this person also has every single achievement unlocked at the exact same time, then firing an explosive arrow from my 3 detection build at a window to alert every enemy and thus doom the run to failure, then leaving immediately before any retaliation can come forth? Why didn't he just make himself Infamy 500, that's the real mystery.
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Nov 25, 2020 18:31
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That's too obvious better to just make it the same as the highest achievement.
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Nov 25, 2020 20:35
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Also if the dude is cheating that hard it's more than likely that he can insta-win any heist with a single keystroke, which means that triggering the PONR on any heist is probably pointless.
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Nov 26, 2020 07:27
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Nov 30, 2020 04:52
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Nov 30, 2020 18:00
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I picked up this game again on a whim after having not played it for years (think - back when Perk Decks were brand new, so probably what 5 years?) and been having a blast. I mostly got up to speed and played some in the coop gonna discord as DJ Footfingers. I'm now to the point where I'm grinding through the story mode for the extra money /xp / coins, and I'll probably infamy for the first time in the next couple of days. I did have a couple of questions though. Is there really and mechanical purpose to upgrading the safehouse? I did spoil myself enough to know you need upgraded rooms for the secret ending, but I seen the other requirements and literally gently caress that. I find I wind up spending a lot of my coins on weapon upgrades and I never really just roll around in it otherwise. My perk deck from back in the day was Hitman and I never got enough experience to upgrade past that. I've done at least maxed it out and I'm using it until I can get something else rolling (currently muscle, but will probably snag a dodgy one like burglar in time as well. Any other good entry level powerful decks to get early? When I do infamy, especially early before the experience bonus kicks in, it's there a good way to get back up to speed in character level without being dead weight for those first few runs? Any tips to help stealth? I ran solo shadow raid last night for the story mode beat and it took ages trying to figure out how to pinpoint which guards to hit in a way to get the most benefit. By the time I got it finished it was like an hour run where I got 8 bags. Edit: One more question - are any of the dual wield wheelguns any good? I dig the Revolver Ocelot style but I worry you'll spend too much time reloading and not enough clicking the police. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 20:39
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DeathSandwich posted:I picked up this game again on a whim after having not played it for years (think - back when Perk Decks were brand new, so probably what 5 years?) and been having a blast. I mostly got up to speed and played some in the coop gonna discord as DJ Footfingers. I'm now to the point where I'm grinding through the story mode for the extra money /xp / coins, and I'll probably infamy for the first time in the next couple of days. Most of the changes are just cosmetic and a couple are also tied into the secret. The only "useful" ones is Bonnie's slot machine and upgrading her area, and Dragan's gym gives a punching bag you can hit for an achievement. Sokol's room also gives a hockey minigame. Hitman isn't that good unless you absolutely adore akimbo weapons. You can never go wrong with grinder(if you have Sokol's Character dlc), even if it is partially filled up (heal overtime every time you do a damage tick to enemies in a suit or light ballistic vest). If you have the Scarface Character DLC before it got pulled off steam, same for Kingpin. Or Sicario. They will all improve with more experience points put into them, but if nothing else, just use grinder if available, or maybe Maniac with is defense for you and your team on damage instead. Important to note: completing any perk deck at least half way and equipping it on you will give a massive permanent experience bonus, from the universal shared perks. The level/unlock curve is super weird with massive jumps in rewards from the easy difficulties, but the harder ones give diminishing returns in better rewards, and 400,000 experience or so is like 25 levels when you start from 0. You can get all but like 6 weapons available by the time you hit level 30, and you can do that easily with any overkill difficulty Bank Heist, as all those levels and skill points will just pour in until you hit the 50s. As for actually leveling quickly, you can put team boosts on your favorite weapons, adding +3% money and experience per boost. You can have two boosts, one on your primary and one on your secondary. They add up and payoff really fast. The best experience-time/difficulty ratio is stealth rushing jewelry store on Normal difficulty. Take any silenced weapon, shoot everybody in the store and anybody else getting scared on the street, steal 3 bags and leave. Instant +5% experience on your next heist with minimal difficulty. Rinse and repeat as often as you wish. If you get the jewelry store experience bonus, then infamy, that +5% experience will persist, helping you on your next grind. Stealth is a big trash fire, only good tips are basically "take a suppressed Judge secondary, be patient, take skills in the Chameleon tree to the left of Ghost and High Value Target on the right tree in Ghost, and don't do stealth with strangers because the desync can and will gently caress everything up by having a guard or camera look at you through walls" If you haven't done so already, join the payday 2 steam community. It is free and you get a lot of freebies. Bronco and particularly Frenchman akimbo are good, though the latter needs you to own the most recent weapon DLC. But it's a drat good one, better than the last one! Also never use the peacemaker. Its reload, accuracy, and sights are all godawful and everything it does, any other revolver does better.
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Nov 30, 2020 21:28
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EorayMel posted:Most of the changes are just cosmetic and a couple are also tied into the secret. The only "useful" ones is Bonnie's slot machine and upgrading her area, and Dragan's gym gives a punching bag you can hit for an achievement. Sokol's room also gives a hockey minigame. Over black friday they had a big sale on all the pre-silkroad DLC so I've got everything up to and including the White House I think. Scarface is out since I missed the boat on that, and I'm short all of the new stuff, though I might just buy it up here in the next day or two just to have it. I've had quite the laugh the last day or two though, I picked up the dual Grimm shotguns with incendiary ammo and it's hillarious to burn up waves of cops with Two Fists of Warcrimes.
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Nov 30, 2020 21:42
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DeathSandwich posted:When I do infamy, especially early before the experience bonus kicks in, it's there a good way to get back up to speed in character level without being dead weight for those first few runs?
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Dec 1, 2020 00:06
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:When I infamy I do Four Stores on Overkill. You only need to ECM one ATM to 'win'. I launch the heist, go to the convenience store, wait for the coast to be clear, mask up, ECM the ATM, literally stand up and sprint out the door because if you go fast enough you wont get detected, hide in the alley until the getaway car arrives, ???, profit. When I just did it the other day it took me longer to wait through getting to level 31 than it did to do the heist, but I have (had?) all the XP boosts from prior imfamies. You can get to level ~60 (again, with the XP boosts from prior infamies so if you do it will be slightly less) doing that three times. Takes less than ~20 minutes, then you should be able to equip yourself fully and have enough skillpoints to do a reasonable loud build. I did my first infamy last night before I went to bed. Man it sucks having all your good weapons and armor locked. I forgot that it stripped all your spending cash and I had no silencers loaded on my level 0 capable weapons. I wound up doing the dumb thing of joining the chrismas map with the elves on Overkill and getting carried through like a 25 - 30 bag run of that and going up to level 47 in one game. All my weapons and armor came back and I've got spending cash again for mods!  So it looks like the skill point discount is largely going to benefit if you deeply invested in one or two trees over being pretty broadly specced, at least for the moment. I just rebuilt a pretty basic machine gunner + Ammo bags build for the moment and I'll branch out as I get more levels and get the extra skill loadout slots again. I really wish you had more than 3 pre-level 100. As is I just kind of break it down to "Generic ammo monkey with saw capability spec" "Generic doctor bag/medic spec" and "Generic stealth spec" It'd be nice to have a prebuilt loadout for like a smash&grab spec with C4, a turret-centric one, and maybe one I can keep around for gimmicks like incendiary shotgun grinders and the like while leveling up. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 17:12
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DeathSandwich posted:
Yeah I do not understand why they treat loadout slots as a limiting resource. It's not like it adds any meaningful challenge to the game, nor does it represent any significant amount of data. The thing about speccing, and you've probably picked up on this, is that most 'builds' go deep in 2 or 3 trees rather than just spreading out. The most 'impactful' skills tend to be either at the bottom or the top of a given tree, so the infamy bonuses are fairly strong but mostly because they let you take a build that was already going deep and then take a few extra low-level skills.
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Dec 2, 2020 17:28
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Tulip posted:Yeah I do not understand why they treat loadout slots as a limiting resource. It's not like it adds any meaningful challenge to the game, nor does it represent any significant amount of data. To be fair, there are some pretty choice mid-line picks (I have fallen in love with Sprint in any direction, and even basic Joker can be pretty nice to have even if you don't have the other supporting skills) but nothing that is immediately make or break.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:34
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Cram inspire ace into all builds, every build, watch otherwise guaranteed loses be salvaged
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Dec 2, 2020 18:38
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EorayMel posted:Cram inspire ace into all builds, every build, watch otherwise guaranteed loses be salvaged
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Dec 2, 2020 18:40
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Inspire Ace makes touching the pub stove burn that much gentler
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Dec 2, 2020 21:40
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HebrewMagic posted:Inspire Ace makes touching the pub stove burn that much gentler this is true but also from my experience they will just eventually hit the down cap and then call you a slur
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Dec 2, 2020 21:44
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watho posted:this is true but also from my experience they will just eventually hit the down cap and then call you a slur My experience is that pubbies will eat doctor bags like they are lobster and steak entrees after getting kicked by a cloaker just once, even after I tell them multiple times not to do so, then going into custody 2 minutes later
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Dec 3, 2020 00:25
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watho posted:this is true but also from my experience they will just eventually hit the down cap and then call you a slur This is why I only host public, never join. Hitting that kick button right as I get into the van while they're legging it with a body bag is like personally executing them at gunpoint.
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Dec 3, 2020 07:08
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Dec 3, 2020 08:59
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