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crispix posted:I like the look of that Barry Gardiners. He is very good at speaking and doing politics. He also has a strange, enigmatic intensity about him like you wonder if he might be a wizard. Barry's a great guy but he does have a tendency to recycle his talking points over and over again; he's very much a soundbite politician.
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May 5, 2017 22:34
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Purple Prince posted:Barry's a great guy but he does have a tendency to recycle his talking points over and over again; he's very much a soundbite politician. Given the public's recent performance that might not be a bad thing...
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May 5, 2017 22:35
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I think Clive Lewis would be good and I hope he gets the job. I also think that when Labour gets a competent leader it will suddenly turn out that Labour can make progress against the Tories after all, even without saying they hate foreigners.
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May 5, 2017 22:35
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Paxman posted:I think Clive Lewis would be good and I hope he gets the job. Agreed, the problem is that said good leader also needs to not be a neoliberal poo poo, which hasn't been an option so far apart from Corbyn.
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May 5, 2017 22:36
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Can't wait for Tom Watson to lead the party to victory on June 8
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May 5, 2017 22:38
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Purple Prince posted:Barry's a great guy but he does have a tendency to recycle his talking points over and over again; he's very much a soundbite politician. He is also very pro-nuclear which the current membership might not like.
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May 5, 2017 22:39
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Zalakwe posted:He is also very pro-nuclear which the current membership might not like. Eh, nobody really gives that much of a gently caress about Trident. It's pretty far down the list of issues that are dealbreakers for people, I know people who are anti-nuke but are pretty much resigned to thew fact that getting socialist policies through are more important. Plus not backing Trident gets you in the poo poo with the trade unions.
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May 5, 2017 22:43
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At the proper time, Blue Labour would take Blair from his break to put him back into politics and stand as candidate for Labour leadership. Then all parties would have become neoliberal; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men on zero hour contracts, with high unemployment and no NHS. Then the liberated Friedman apologists would teach them new ways to privatise and destroy social safety nets and transfer wealth to the obscenely rich, and all the Union would flame with a holocaust of freedom of the markets.
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May 5, 2017 22:44
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Zalakwe posted:He is also very pro-nuclear which the current membership might not like. Didn't Trident renewal win backing at the conference? I mean personally I think it's a pointless waste of money but I also think scrapping the replacement is a losing issue, and politicians regularly waste money for votes so it is what it is. Or wait, do you mean nuclear power? Oh well, in that case the argument is an easy one to make, lesser of two evils, desperate need to cut reliance on fossil fuels, nuclear power best short-term option we have, etc. Certainly won me over.
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May 5, 2017 22:44
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MikeCrotch posted:Eh, nobody really gives that much of a gently caress about Trident. It's pretty far down the list of issues that are dealbreakers for people, I know people who are anti-nuke but are pretty much resigned to thew fact that getting socialist policies through are more important. Plus not backing Trident gets you in the poo poo with the trade unions. I actually meant power rather than missiles. It's possible that makes no difference to your response though. Edit: He is also pro trident.
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May 5, 2017 22:47
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Barry Gardeners having a little paddle. Wet little votecuum.
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May 5, 2017 22:45
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Paxman posted:I think Clive Lewis would be good and I hope he gets the job. I think that "when labour gets a 'competent' leader" will be "when the party decides that briefing against the leader constantly because they don't like socialism" is a bad idea.
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May 5, 2017 22:47
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MikeCrotch posted:Agreed, the problem is that said good leader also needs to not be a neoliberal poo poo, which hasn't been an option so far apart from Corbyn. Well I"m not a Corbyn fan but I suspect his legacy might be that Labour politicians realise they can't just present themselves as nicer Tories any more. (I don't think that's what they ever were, I know others disagree, but they definitely began to think sounding like Tories was the way to win)
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May 5, 2017 22:54
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Zalakwe posted:I actually meant power rather than missiles. It's possible that makes no difference to your response though. Trident is pretty stupid and overly reliant on the USA, which is a very bad thing in a nuclear deterrent, but if it comes to that everyone is hosed anyway and it keeps the kids happy.
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May 5, 2017 23:06
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Paxman posted:Well I"m not a Corbyn fan but I suspect his legacy might be that Labour politicians realise they can't just present themselves as nicer Tories any more. Sadly, I think they'll conclude the exact opposite from a Corbyn landslide defeat. There will be lots of talk about how they need to be a credible party of the center and it will be business as usual. On the plus side, I read an article on the Beeb today that said taking national projections from the local election results would give Theresa May an increased majority, but not a landslide victory.
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May 5, 2017 23:07
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So glad I live just up the road from the only Ukip councillor in the country, argh argh argh On the plus side my local councillor did make the cut, by a ludicrously tiny margin of 26 votes (and a recount). Looking forward to seeing how much having Tories in charge will gently caress Lancashire County Council given that I've just started working there \o/
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May 5, 2017 23:13
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I've got a feeling it wont be that bad. Given the call of the election just before the council elections allot of young people might not had a chance to register to vote before the council elections but they will get round to it by the time of the GE if they feel inspired. Fools hope :/ gently caress the Torys btw.
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May 5, 2017 23:13
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Seaside Loafer posted:I've got a feeling it wont be that bad. Given the call of the election just before the council elections allot of young people might not had a chance to register to vote before the council elections but they will get round to it by the time of the GE if they feel inspired. Fools hope :/ You know you're grasping for straws when your hopes are in the yoof vote actually bothering their arses.
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May 5, 2017 23:17
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MikeCrotch posted:Agreed, the problem is that said good leader also needs to not be a neoliberal poo poo, which hasn't been an option so far apart from Corbyn. More specifically, they need to not be _called_ a neoliberal poo poo by Corbyn supporters. Which would be a hard trick for Joseph Stalin reincarnated into the body of zombie Marx while riding a velociraptor on top of a T34...
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May 5, 2017 23:16
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radmonger posted:More specifically, they need to not be _called_ a neoliberal poo poo by Corbyn supporters. Which would be a hard trick for Joseph Stalin reincarnated into the body of zombie Marx while riding a velociraptor on top of a T34... What, are you going to argue that Tony Blair & Gordon Brown weren't? Away & shite.
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May 5, 2017 23:19
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forkboy84 posted:What, are you going to argue that Tony Blair & Gordon Brown weren't? Away & shite. *Noted three time election winner and last labour leader to beat the tories Tony Blair.
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May 5, 2017 23:26
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I do not support stalin or velociraptors.
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May 5, 2017 23:26
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ukle posted:Nuke everything. Seriously how the gently caress can Middlesbrough, Redcar, Stockton etc vote Tory. 
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May 5, 2017 23:30
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I think Labour would get less votes if Corbyn stepped down now, given that people like to know who their prime minister would hypothetically be.
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May 5, 2017 23:31
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Namtab posted:I think Labour would get less votes if Corbyn stepped down now, given that people like to know who their prime minister would hypothetically be. I doubt it would get fewer votes. For instance all those people who won't vote for them because of corbyn would be in play.
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May 5, 2017 23:32
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peanut- posted:How many crippling election defeats is it going to take before you lot stop being furious at pissflaps for being right about Corbyn. Exactly. Pissflaps can borrow my Flymo™ anytime "he or she or gender identity No.47 - cock rainbow" wants and I will have no concerns over it being returned with compacted soil issues.
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May 5, 2017 23:33
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hakimashou posted:I doubt it would get fewer votes. They'd need to come up with another excuse.
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May 5, 2017 23:36
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ukle posted:Nuke everything. Seriously how the gently caress can Middlesbrough, Redcar, Stockton etc vote Tory. The Tees Valley mayor actually covers a surprising amount of the countryside outside of the actual boro. Middlesbrough South has been becoming an increasingly Tory constituency for years and years now, for example. It's really only the actual centers that are that strong Labour, the point of the mayoral post is to give tories a way to overrule Labour councils.
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May 5, 2017 23:38
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gently caress off fash
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May 5, 2017 23:39
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Oberleutnant posted:Why? What the press are doing now is exactly what they've been doing since Corbyn was nominated. They've been stabbing and gouging and spitting since day 1. Today is just the culmination of two years of hostile briefing where they can say "we told you so!". jabby posted:So you're unashamedly advocating voting for whoever the press tells you to vote for. I can save you actually reading the papers to find out: it's whoever leads the Tory party. What's stopping the re-energised grassroots publicly-engaged and class-conscious Social Movement that I'm told Corbyn & McDonnell are building from starting its own newspaper, with vingt-et-un and courtesans? I mean, the SNP have got The National and the 48% have got The New European, I'm sure that the Corbynistas, what with all that unprecedented surge of party membership they were boasting about not so long ago, would offer a huge readership eager to be told what's Correct to think.
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May 5, 2017 23:42
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This thread is really full of cunts today.
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May 5, 2017 23:50
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kapparomeo posted:What's stopping the re-energised grassroots publicly-engaged and class-conscious Social Movement that I'm told Corbyn & McDonnell are building from starting its own newspaper, with vingt-et-un and courtesans? I mean, the SNP have got The National and the 48% have got The New European, I'm sure that the Corbynistas, what with all that unprecedented surge of party membership they were boasting about not so long ago, would offer a huge readership eager to be told what's Correct to think. Because starting a new newspaper is a loving stupid idea? Readership is declining and the only reason the current newspapers hold such sway is that they are long established (and so popular with olds) and run by rich fuckers who are highly connected with government. Plus the BBC is terrified of doing any actual journalism and so takes its stories from whatever is on the front pages. It's not exactly a market to set up something new. Momentum et. al. have a better chance of getting their message out via social media, and considering Labour are beating the Tories with anyone under 40 they've probably partially succeeded.
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May 5, 2017 23:50
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I wonder what the world will be like when all the over 40's are dead. I suspect the answer is "a smouldering ruin" but it would be nice to believe it might be a socialist one. Or that we are producing some kind of inverse boomer generation.
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May 5, 2017 23:54
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jabby posted:Because starting a new newspaper is a loving stupid idea? Readership is declining and the only reason the current newspapers hold such sway is that they are long established (and so popular with olds) and run by rich fuckers who are highly connected with government. Plus the BBC is terrified of doing any actual journalism and so takes its stories from whatever is on the front pages. It's not exactly a market to set up something new. Haven't the under 40s always supported labour
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May 5, 2017 23:57
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TheRat posted:This thread is really full of cunts today.
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May 6, 2017 00:02
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OwlFancier posted:The Tees Valley mayor actually covers a surprising amount of the countryside outside of the actual boro. Plus the turnout was what, 25? Slightly less?
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May 6, 2017 00:08
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OwlFancier posted:I wonder what the world will be like when all the over 40's are dead. The secret is that boomers didn't get more conservative as they got older, they were *always* conservative. The generation that grew up with the great depression was more left wing than boomers at the same age, we're probably going to see the same thing again.
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May 6, 2017 00:09
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hakimashou posted:I doubt it would get fewer votes. Logic won't work, Corbyn vowed to retain the triple-lock for pensioners and most people here thought it was a good idea. When even the Tories think pensioners have done quite well over the past few years compared to normal working families you can rely on Corbyn to walk into the trap of promising to continue to throw money at them for no real benefit. Pensioners mostly vote Tory, the principled ones that you might have appealed to just noticed you tried to bribe them. Promising to throw money at everything is fighting the 2010/2015 elections all over again. Expecting a different result is complete madness. I can see the appeal of letting Corbyn stay on to fail, I don't think it will make much difference though as his supporters are so dumb they'll look for any excuse not to take responsibility during the aftermath. That's why I see the Labour split coming. A one party state (Scotland somewhat excluded) isn't healthy for the country and Labour is currently lead by complete idiots.
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May 6, 2017 00:11
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MikeCrotch posted:The secret is that boomers didn't get more conservative as they got older, they were *always* conservative. The generation that grew up with the great depression was more left wing than boomers at the same age, we're probably going to see the same thing again. That's what I mean, is there some sleeper wave of crusty socialists waiting to get old and start voting or not.
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May 6, 2017 00:23
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AP posted:Logic won't work, Corbyn vowed to retain the triple-lock for pensioners and most people here thought it was a good idea. lol if you think the tories are cutting pensions out of "fairness" and lol if you think that defunding pensioners is needed to pay for other things.
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May 6, 2017 00:26
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