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cheetah7071 posted:Yeah that episode is good in that the viewer's immediate "wait, but--" is the actual point of the episode Yeah it's not even a quarter into the episode and the officers all agree that Romulan is a fake rear end ho.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:03
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Lol
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Jul 12, 2017 02:04
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I love the Romulan uniforms. The only think I really like about the Klingon ones are the articulated spine spines
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Jul 12, 2017 02:05
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Jul 12, 2017 02:05
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Good to see an example of how much Klingons and Romulans hate each other without one being barely conscious and retarded from magnets.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:09
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They're doing a good job making you feel just how high the stakes are for once.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:22
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Picard: "Data... unlike King Henry, it is not easy for me to disguise myself and walk among my troops." First of all, good wink at the fact that one of the troops in the holodeck was a disguised Patrick Stewart. Second, right after he said this is a shot of Picard looking pensive, and I am praying to God he does what I hope he does.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:26
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Genuinely interesting explanation by Geordi of the nature and utility of intuition and its relation to objectivity. A lot more sophisticated than the usual sci fi "uhhhhhhhhh there's facts and then there's feelings and never the twain shall meet"
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Jul 12, 2017 02:32
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Data: "It is unlikely you will ever be able to return to your home planet." Romulan: "The cold reaction of an android." Data: "... but perhaps we can bring your planet to you." 
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Jul 12, 2017 02:41
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 drat
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Jul 12, 2017 02:41
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To be honest I hadn't even considered the possibility that the defector himself had been duped. Good stuff.
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Jul 12, 2017 02:58
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Classic spycraft! When you have discovered an agent, he can be far more useful delivering poisoned information than up against a wall. I love Brooks's delivery of "Which senator?!" No one in real life would respond with that sort of precise diction but he just sells it.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:04
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Jeb! Repetition posted:To be honest I hadn't even considered the possibility that the defector himself had been duped. Good stuff. It's always a chess game with the Romulans.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:05
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I'm not sure I understood Tomalok's plan though. Was it just to get a federation flagship alone and blow it up with no pretext and start a war as aggressor? That goes against what was said about Romulan style earlier.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:06
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I'm not sure I understood Tomalok's plan though. Was it just to get a federation flagship alone and blow it up with no pretext and start a war as aggressor? That goes against what was said about Romulan style earlier.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:25
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Nessus posted:I think the idea is that if the Federation looks like the bad guys the Romulans can embarrass them, change the diplomatic landscape to their advantage, and probably grab some systems/claim the Neutral Zone or some poo poo. It's more like Putin's Russia than HYDRA or some poo poo. Yea I never got the sense the Romulans wanted open war again, but more something subtle along these lines.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:36
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I think Romulus was in a deadlock of people who wanted to go to war with the Federation, and people who realized that would destroy both sides and was stupid. The people who want to fight always have some plan of making it look like the Federation started something so they could go to war. If the Klingons weren't there, Tomalok would have destroyed the enterprise and then went back to Romulus with the story that the Federation sent one of their warships across the neutral zone to start a war.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:36
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Yeah, I think the intent was to get Picard to violate the neutral zone, then probably claim the Enterprise shot first or something. The Dominion War and some other events that happen later on show that those Romulan Warbirds aren't nearly as tough as the Romulans wanted everyone else to believe (or may have themselves believed). Frankly I don't think the Romulans could have won a war against the Federation in the TNG era, but TV Picard wasn't one for taking chances.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:38
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Probably some personal pride there as well since Tomalok said he wanted to take the saucer section as a prize to hang in his study or something. And I'm p sure he demanded that they surrender in exchange for their lives: capturing a Galaxy-class ship would be a pretty big intelligence coup (alternately, a brilliant Federation plan to sabotage Romulan starship design, depending on your opinion of the Galaxy class) E: ^^^^ Reminder that a bunch of meathead monsters who live in a mine, and a human slave kid who never went to school designed and built a warship better than anything the Romulans or the Federation could do.
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Jul 12, 2017 03:58
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That would be an interesting plan. Send someone on a suicide mission with a ship that has some bad technology that appears to be superior but has a hidden flaw.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:07
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FuturePastNow posted:Yeah, I think the intent was to get Picard to violate the neutral zone, then probably claim the Enterprise shot first or something. What constitutes violating the neutral zone anyway? I mean what can't Romulans and Feds do in there?
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Jul 12, 2017 04:11
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Jeb! Repetition posted:What constitutes violating the neutral zone anyway? I mean what can't Romulans and Feds do in there? go?
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Jul 12, 2017 04:13
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Jeb! Repetition posted:What constitutes violating the neutral zone anyway? I mean what can't Romulans and Feds do in there? They are supposed to stay out of the neutral zone. Whenever one of them enters the neutral zone, it ends up with them being on the edge of war. It's mostly just to keep the Federation away from Romulan space, because the Romulans always violate it because they know the Federation won't start a war over it.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:15
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Also, if the Federation public perceived a war against the Romulans to be a war of aggression, their morale wouldn't be as high. That'd likely mean the Federation would want to end the war quicker and be more willing to make concessions.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:15
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Cojawfee posted:They are supposed to stay out of the neutral zone. Whenever one of them enters the neutral zone, it ends up with them being on the edge of war. It's mostly just to keep the Federation away from Romulan space, because the Romulans always violate it because they know the Federation won't start a war over it. Oh yeah, that was what confused me, how the Romulans are always going in there with no repercussions.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:23
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Oh yeah, that was what confused me, how the Romulans are always going in there with no repercussions. I figure the Romulans at no point wanted to have a knock down slugfest with the Federation, but a limited war that gets them some star systems or wins some hosed-up Romulan homeland goal would be another story. Bad Federale morale would also make it easier for them to go 'well after these three battles how's about we end this pointless slaughter with us having gained X Y Z and perhaps redrawing the Neutral Zone to encompass a chunk of Fed space? The Cardies and Klingons think it's a great idea too...' Of course this complicated poo poo is hard to pull off, which is why the Romulans never managed it.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:31
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The TNG matte painters almost always turned in impressive work.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:35
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Good to see an example of how much Klingons and Romulans hate each other without one being barely conscious and retarded from magnets. I hope I get another excuse to type "retarded from magnets" before my watch is over.
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Jul 12, 2017 04:36
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Jeb! Repetition posted:I hope I get another excuse to type "retarded from magnets" before my watch is over. I can think of one where you might It's the one where Data gets amnesia on a renaissance-era alien planet
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Jul 12, 2017 04:43
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8one6 posted:The TNG matte painters almost always turned in impressive work. Is that the original matte painting or did they CGI it up a bit for the remastered version?
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Jul 12, 2017 05:02
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Oh yeah, that was what confused me, how the Romulans are always going in there with no repercussions. To be fair not one but two Galaxy-class starships went charging into the Neutral Zone on a gambit to swipe lost technology from a dead civilization, and also Captain Kirk straight-up charged into Romulan space, punched out a Romulan guard, and stole a cloaking device. The Federation has not been pure as the driven snow on this matter either.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:04
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shadok posted:Is that the original matte painting or did they CGI it up a bit for the remastered version? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5w7R9oNk4A&t=303s Looks like they touched it up quite a bit.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:05
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shadok posted:Is that the original matte painting or did they CGI it up a bit for the remastered version? Well, this is what it looked like previously: 
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Jul 12, 2017 05:06
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Oh yeah, that was what confused me, how the Romulans are always going in there with no repercussions. I'm sure the Federation Diplomatic Corps wrote them very firm letters each time. Or in other words, like most international treaty violations, there are no repercussions until someone decides there should be. The Federation isn't going to start a war and everyone knows it. As for what they're not allowed to do, generally it seems ships aren't allowed to enter the zone and no bases or colonies can be established there. The rule with ships and launching probes seems to be, "don't get caught," and that's a bit easier for the Romulans.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:24
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Cojawfee posted:That would be an interesting plan. Send someone on a suicide mission with a ship that has some bad technology that appears to be superior but has a hidden flaw. This was actually an episode of JAG, if you can believe it. An F-14 makes an emergency landing in Cuba. Cuba and Iran make a deal to trade the upgraded avionics software for oil (since Iran's F-14s are 20 years older at this point), but then the good guys inadvertently foil an NSA operation to get the Iranian Air Force to load their fighters with software that would override their fire control computers and refuse to lock on to American aircraft.
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Jul 12, 2017 05:52
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Data was listing the last names of famous Shakespearean actors he was emulating, but the list didn't include "Stewart." Come on, I would have forgiven you Isn't that the one where Stewart/Picard goes, "Aw shucks, I'm not much of an actor." Good bit.
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Jul 12, 2017 06:50
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FuturePastNow posted:Yeah, I think the intent was to get Picard to violate the neutral zone, then probably claim the Enterprise shot first or something. Look at the design of Warbirds; they're big, sure, but in actual structure they're practically hollow and probably not much more tonnage than a Galaxy class. That and the Defiant demonstrated that size doesn't necessarily equal power in Star Trek ship design. A lot of Romulan aesthetics, from the shoulder pads to the ships, seem to be built around making themselves look bigger and stronger than they are. Not sure if that's on purpose, but it's interesting. And on an unrelated note: I want to see Klingon environmentalists. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 07:07
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Inescapable Duck posted:And on an unrelated note: I want to see Klingon environmentalists. I imagine the Klingons are big on hunting and have lots of big game reserves on their homeworld. Klingon environmentalists would probably be a bit more Teddy Rosevelt than hippies, but probably not that rare...
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Jul 12, 2017 09:14
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Klingons wouldn't dump waste into the sea, there'd be no honor in that. Instead they would take it to the nearest designated waste disposal facility and engage in hand to hand combat, with the loser being consigned to the landfill.
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Jul 12, 2017 10:42
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Angry Salami posted:I imagine the Klingons are big on hunting and have lots of big game reserves on their homeworld. Klingon environmentalists would probably be a bit more Teddy Rosevelt than hippies, but probably not that rare... More or less what I was thinking. And they are carnivores (or at least lean far more towards it than humans) who prefer raw meat, so a healthy environment is even more key for their quality of life. Though their moon cracking open was probably an environmental catastrophe. Actually, given their apparently feudal society, I imagine a lot of wildlife is considered property of the House that owns the land/claims the territory, and they probably have old-style poaching laws, and poachers, gamekeepers and such to go with it.
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Jul 12, 2017 10:49
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