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Nate RFB posted:That'd be a kind of lovely direction to take and would be kind of victim blaming IMO. I don't think Yawgmoft meant "the girls confront their own genuine complicity in the deaths of their friends" so much as "the girls confront their own irrational guilt / feeling that they should have stopped their friends from killing themselves and that they're at fault for not doing so." When someone you care about hurts themself, it can be pretty easy to believe that you should have seen it and done something and that it's your fault, even when (from an outsider's perspective) it's clearly not something you could have prevented. I'm not sure Wonder Egg is going to go this direction, but it feels potentially plausible? Counselor seems like a poo poo though imo. E:f,b
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Feb 3, 2021 18:36
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Although it seems like Rika has pretty genuine culpability honestly.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:39
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E: said better above, yes. Exactly.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:41
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The sense I've gotten is that the counselor had an inappropriate relationship with Koito, but not one that crossed the line in a physical sense. Given the stuff about how all the girls in the school seem obsessed with him, I was thinking he was using their desire as emotional validation and similarly with Koito. This really doesn't seem like a show where the ending is beating up a monster version of the counselor or having him led away in handcuffs.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:44
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I was on the "this show is about their internal struggles so doesn't need a big bad" train, but I think with the newest episode I'm more inclined to think that the counselor is in fact a big poo poo. Maybe the message of the show might be something like "the dead are dead but you can still learn lessons to help the living", and given that the show has invoked the spectre of child sex abuse I would expect (or prefer) it to address it not merely in terms of what the victims feel about it but also dealing with perpetrators in the real world. I don't know of the counselor would be the Big Bad, but he might be a mid-boss - his existence will definitely be something important since he connects Momoe and Kobito. I'm not sure whether Momoe is a trans narrative or not, I think the two possibilities are: (a) She's a trans or intersex girl, who subsequent to whatever happened with Haruka, has been forced back into a male passing role. (b) She's a girl dressing as a boy because of fear of sexual predators to appear unattractive to them There's a twitter who argued that in the "adam's apple" scene it's possible to see a slight sign of what might be an adam's apple, and so Neiru is lying in the scene. I guess it's vaguely ambiguous. In either case it seems clear to me that she doesn't *want* to be wearing boys' clothes but feels she has to for some reason.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:49
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Exploring (and, I assume, showing the characters overcoming) the almost universal reaction of guilt when a friend kills themselves is not victim blaming. Poltergrift posted:I don't think Yawgmoft meant "the girls confront their own genuine complicity in the deaths of their friends"
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Feb 3, 2021 18:52
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Put it this way, the show's presented positive and negative ways of dealing with guilt. In the negative we have self hatred and self-destructiveness, but the positive way that the show has presented the characters as dealing with their own sense of guilt is that within the dreams they seem to act out what they feel they should have done instead. For instance, Ai's specific self hatred is her passivity in the face of bad people doing things. So it makes sense that by the end of the series, we can see whether she's truly overcome that, or whether her resolution only exists in the dream world. EDIT: perhaps the true wonder egg is the friendships we made on the way~
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Feb 3, 2021 19:04
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I mean, it's pretty clear so far that our quartet's best chance of redemption and salvation comes from each other - putting the dead to rest is fine and worthy, but life can only be shared with the living. It's just a question of what else the show has to say.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:25
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Re: The Counselor: The show has now more than once had episodes where a major theme has been the negative consequences caused by adults abusing their power. We see that in episode 2 with the gymnast girl who was physically abused by her coach and forced to compete even though she didn't want to do it anymore, and that woman talked about how her connections made her untouchable so she could get away with it. We also saw that with the molester in episode 4 who flexed his power to retaliate against the egg girl's family and destroy them when she tried to fight back which probably lead to her suicide. Considering that I think it's totally rational to be leery about trusting anyone in a position of authority (which makes me even more interested in Neiru, actually...) It's possible there's a completely innocent (or at least, non-malevolent) explanation for what is going on with Sawaki, but at the same time the show clearly wants to make it seem something isn't quite on the level with him. Fangz posted:EDIT: perhaps the true wonder egg is the friendships we made on the way~ I've honestly been toying with the idea that the people the Accas talked about who are "led astray by the temptation of death and regret it" might be the protagonists and not the people they want to save. I'm not yet at the point where I think they're pulling a Sixth Sense and the main cast are dead and the narrative is super unreliable and Sawaki was actually there to comfort Ai's mother about her death, but considering this show I wouldn't be surprised to see the show at least talk about suicide contagion.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:25
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Omnicrom posted:Re: The Counselor: The show has now more than once had episodes where a major theme has been the negative consequences caused by adults abusing their power. We see that in episode 2 with the gymnast girl who was physically abused by her coach and forced to compete even though she didn't want to do it anymore, and that woman talked about how her connections made her untouchable so she could get away with it. We also saw that with the molester in episode 4 who flexed his power to retaliate against the egg girl's family and destroy them when she tried to fight back which probably lead to her suicide. Considering that I think it's totally rational to be leery about trusting anyone in a position of authority (which makes me even more interested in Neiru, actually...) I mean, the whole point of the idol fan Wonder Killer was suicide contagion, with a parallel of how Rika's projected neurosis and self-harm over her body image drove her fan to suicide.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:30
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See also Ai's "if she had asked me to go with her, I would have"
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Feb 3, 2021 19:49
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J-Drama writer really knocking it out of the park.
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Feb 4, 2021 02:49
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Definitely feels like Storylines They Wouldn't Let Me Do
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Feb 4, 2021 02:52
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Since the Wonder Killers all presumably have real-world counterparts, I'm wondering if there are any repercussions to the real versions resulting from Ohto & Co running around and knocking off their dream versions.
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Feb 4, 2021 03:02
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the girls are basically just psychopomps, so I don't think the dream world is connected to the real one in that way
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Feb 4, 2021 03:39
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incidentally, the preorder bonuses for the volume 1 blu-ray in japan vary based on the store you preorder from.   Mostly posting just because the art is cute, though there is the sort of interesting character note of Ai's style shifting to match whichever girl she's with, which kinda fits the idea of her being somewhat codependent. Wow, bluray bonus art lore.
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Feb 4, 2021 03:53
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Just noticed that the ED has a a shot of each of the girls alone, then a shot with their Statue Girl, then several more shots of each girl, alone again.
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Feb 4, 2021 10:06
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Loved the episode but I am going to spend the rest of the season praying they won't do a horrible plot thing in regards to gender
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Feb 4, 2021 15:32
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goblin week posted:Loved the episode but I am going to spend the rest of the season praying they won't do a horrible plot thing in regards to gender
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Feb 4, 2021 15:40
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i believe in egg
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Feb 4, 2021 16:00
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Endorph posted:eh, doubtful. even if they go the most basic route with momoe its just 'she's tall and traditionally handsome but wants to present femininely and be seen as a woman,' which is the kind of thing so basic that even idol anime do it but it isn't really problematic or anything, more just a missed chance to do something deeper. and the writer's done trans and gay stuff before so even if they aren't perfect about it they understand that stuff exists, so i doubt they'd accidentally stumble into something stupid. IDK, that trope can fall into some kind of dodgy 'I don't conform to traditional gender roles/appearance but I'd really like to' territory. This one does seem to move away from that in that Momoe apparently wants to be attractive as a girl to other girls, though.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:09
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Zetsubou-san posted:i believe in egg
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Feb 4, 2021 17:35
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Zetsubou-san posted:i believe in egg 
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Feb 4, 2021 18:39
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Whats the source for that screencap?
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Feb 4, 2021 18:44
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 (e: src: horimiya) utamaru fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 18:49
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Raenir Salazar posted:Whats the source for that screencap?
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Feb 4, 2021 18:52
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Liz is so good! Watch it watch it!
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Feb 4, 2021 19:01
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Endorph posted:eh, doubtful. even if they go the most basic route with momoe its just 'she's tall and traditionally handsome but wants to present femininely and be seen as a woman,' which is the kind of thing so basic that even idol anime do it but it isn't really problematic or anything, more just a missed chance to do something deeper. and the writer's done trans and gay stuff before so even if they aren't perfect about it they understand that stuff exists, so i doubt they'd accidentally stumble into something stupid. I mean yeah, I suppose my problem is that I’ve oftentimes been burned by what I’d hope for trans representation to turn out as „being trans as only a phase” or „secretly crossdressing for whatever weird society-approved purposes the plot has contrived”. It’s never really problematic but it oftentimes feels like a copout from tackling what could be. That said, I’m hopeful! I really like the show!
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Feb 4, 2021 22:27
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at the very least i def. dont think it will be, either of those.
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Feb 4, 2021 22:59
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yeah the writer's trans manga is kinda confused but well-meaning and not offensive or anything
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Feb 5, 2021 00:05
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e; beaten
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Feb 7, 2021 17:51
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Good to know that that line of thinking will not be what the show is working towards expressing.
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Feb 7, 2021 18:05
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Not sure why Ai was so surprised to hear Neiru called president when this is how she got her phone number back in episode 2:
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Feb 8, 2021 20:06
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Hargrimm posted:Not sure why Ai was so surprised to hear Neiru called president when this is how she got her phone number back in episode 2: That business card is in english. She's Japanese 
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Feb 8, 2021 20:13
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Julias posted:That business card is in english. She's Japanese I had the same thought! She has been skipping school...
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Feb 8, 2021 20:32
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Hargrimm posted:Not sure why Ai was so surprised to hear Neiru called president when this is how she got her phone number back in episode 2: quote:NEIRU AONUMA
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Feb 8, 2021 23:28
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I feel like the people there show her a lot of deference, I feel like there's more to her position than just legacy or nepotism.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:34
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Yes that's what happens in nepotism cases. Like have you seen how people behave towards Eric Trump when he's deciding on which of the two magazine covers is going on the month's edition?
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Feb 8, 2021 23:58
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Phobophilia posted:Yes that's what happens in nepotism cases. Like have you seen how people behave towards Eric Trump when he's deciding on which of the two magazine covers is going on the month's edition? No one shows Eric Trump deference or shows him any respect though.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:05
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