- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
-
|
Libya has rejected the claims of torture
quote:Libya rejects MSF torture allegations: minister
The Libyan government rejected on Monday allegations it had tortured detainees who had fought for Muammar Gaddafi's forces, saying that if there had been cases of torture it had not known about them.
The aid agency Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) said last Thursday it had stopped its work in detention centres in the city of Misrata because its medical staff were being asked to patch up detainees mid-way through torture sessions so they could go back for more abuse.
Libyan Foreign Minister Ashour bin Khayyal said it was not the policy of the ruling National Transitional Council, which has promised to make a break with Gaddafi-era practices and respect human rights, to use torture.
"Gaddafi's remnants committed actions that were an aggression to the revolution and to Libya and they will now receive the treatment they deserve," Khayyal told Reuters on the sidelines of an African Union summit in Addis Ababa.
"As a government, it is not our policy at all to commit torture because we, the Libyan people, suffered under these policies and we strongly reject it," Khayyal said.
"If there was torture, then it was not with the knowledge of the government or by the agreement of the government either. It may be actions by individuals, but we have not heard about the report you mention."
Khayyal said his government had no problem dealing with forces loyal to Gaddafi who were not carrying weapons.
The MSF allegations are awkward for Western powers which backed the rebellion against Gaddafi and helped to overthrow him and install Libya's new leaders.
Personally I think they might be hiding something...
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 10:03
|
|
- Adbot
-
ADBOT LOVES YOU
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2024 06:22
|
|
- PookBear
- Nov 1, 2008
-
|
so did caro make it back to the states or did he die or what.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 10:27
|
|
- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
-
|
Reverand maynard posted:
so did caro make it back to the states or did he die or what.
Somehow he managed to survive the heaviest fighting of the Libyan Civil War, where his friends were horribly wounded, and made it back to America. He's very lucky to be alive. Once I get to part 5 of the interview you'll see why.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 10:29
|
|
- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
-
|
Here's part two of the interview, where he talks about horrific injuries, helping out with the medical staff, his friend Dr Tameem's encounter with a dying Tim Hetherington, how the Misratans got so many guns, Libyan gang symbols, and various minor points only Libya nerds like me would be interested in.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 10:34
|
|
- Namarrgon
- Dec 23, 2008
-
Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!
|
To be fair anything he says should be taken with a mountain of salt.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 10:52
|
|
- SexyBlindfold
- Apr 24, 2008
-
i dont care how much probation i get capital letters are for squares hehe im so laid back an nice please read my low effort shitposts about the arab spring
thanxs!!!
|
so apparently they tried to get Assad's wife out of the country and failed, so they're cracking down on Damascus? if this is true then it would be evidence that the rebels do have at least some presence in the capital
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 12:44
|
|
- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
-
|
The Guardian has a new twitter list that follows cool people who tweet about the Arab Spring, including yours truly.
More Syria news:
quote:Draft resolution to UN calls for Syria's Assad to step down
A draft resolution on Syria to be presented to the UN security council calls on President Bashar al-Assad to step aside or face "further measures" in 15 days' time, but it stresses that any punitive measures would be peaceful.
The European-Arab resolution is due to be debated by the security council later on Tuesday, and will then be the subject of negotiations on Wednesday before a vote, expected on Thursday. Before then, its backers – led by the Arab League, US, UK and France – are hoping to persuade Russia not to use its veto. However the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, who is due to attend the debate, has signalled that Moscow is likely to oppose any UN move that demands Assad step down.
The draft resolution, obtained by the Guardian, goes out of its way to address Moscow's concerns that the vote could open the door to western military intervention, like a similar resolution on Libya last year.
The draft says the council is "reaffirming its strong commitment to the sovereignty, independence, unity and territorial integrity of Syria, emphasising the need to resolve the current crisis in Syria peacefully, and stressing that nothing in this resolution compels states to resort to the use of force or the threat of force".
The use of language does not exclude future military action altogether, and western diplomats have said they are ready to engage Russia in a debate on the wording. Hillary Clinton, William Hague and Alain Juppe have travelled to New York for the debate and it is likely to be continued tomorrow by security council ambassadors.
The draft expresses "grave concern" over the ongoing bloodshed, and "the continued transfer of weapons into Syria which fuels the violence and calling on member states to take necessary steps to prevent such flow of arms" — a clear message to Moscow, Assad's principal supporter on the world stage, and main source of arms.
Russia has signaled that it is likely to veto the resolution. Its main objections focus on a clause that gives Damascus an ultimatum to implement an Arab League peace plan, ending violence against the anti-government protests and for Assad to hand power to his deputy to pave the way for a national unity government and elections.
The draft says the council "decides to review Syria's implementation of this resolution within 15 days and, in the event that Syria has not complied, to adopt further measures, in consultation with the League of Arab States".
Speaking on an Australian television news programme, Lateline, Lavrov said Moscow would not support any move to depose Assad, and defended Russian arms supplies to the regime.
"We're arming the constitutional government which, we don't approve of what it is doing, using force against demonstrators, but we're not picking sides, we're implementing our commercial contractual obligations," Lavrov said.
He warned that the resolution could lead to "another Libya", which would be disastrous.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 14:38
|
|
- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
-
|
Should be fun:
quote:Libyan militia leader sues former UK spy chief
A Libyan militia leader has begun legal action against a former senior British intelligence chief whom he accuses of playing a key role in illegally returning him to Libya to be jailed and tortured under Muammar Gaddafi, his London-based lawyers said.
Abdel Hakim Belhadj, who commands one of Libya's most powerful militias, is seeking damages from Mark Allen, who was director of counter-terrorism at MI6, Britain's foreign intelligence agency.
Belhadj and a second Libyan dissident, Sami al-Saadi, accuse Allen of complicity in torture, negligence and misfeasance in public office -- the wrongful exercise of his authority.
"We are taking this unusual step of preparing legal action against an individual as the documents we have in our possession suggest Sir Mark was directly involved in the unlawful rendition of our clients," said lawyer Sapna Malik, from the London law firm Leigh & Day, which represents Belhadj and Saadi.
An Oxford-educated Middle East specialist, Allen retired from MI6 in 2004 and went on to work for oil major BP and The Monitor Group, a global investment and consultancy firm.
He is an honorary fellow of St Antony's College at Oxford University and sits on the advisory board for the London School of Economics' centre for diplomacy and international affairs.
Belhadj accuses Allen of helping to organize the operation to fly him from Bangkok to a prison in Libya in 2004.
During six years in jail, Belhadj says, he was tortured and beaten. He also accuses Thai and U.S. agents of abusing him when he was first held in Bangkok.
Born in Libya in 1966, Belhadj is a former leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which waged an insurgency against Gaddafi in the 1990s.
His emergence as an important figure in Libya after Gaddafi's downfall is potentially embarrassing for London, which led international moves to improve relations with Libya after Gaddafi renounced weapons of mass destruction in 2003.
Belhadj's lawyers say Allen's name was found in intelligence documents recovered in Tripoli around the time of the collapse of Gaddafi's administration last August.
The pair are also suing the British government and its legal advisers, the MI5 domestic intelligence agency, the Home Office (interior ministry) and the Foreign Office, which oversees MI6.
A Foreign Office spokesman said: "We take all allegations of mistreatment seriously, but these matters are also the subject of legal correspondence between Mr Belhadj's lawyers and our own so we can offer no further comment at this stage."
Allen could not immediately be reached for comment.
Earlier this month, Britain postponed a judge-led inquiry into whether its security services knew about the torture of suspects overseas. Ministers said the inquiry would be delayed because police have begun a separate investigation into whether London illegally sent detainees to Libya.
Britain has long faced accusations that its spies were complicit in the abuse of overseas detainees in the years after the September 11, 2001 attacks.
Prime Minister David Cameron has cited those suspicions as one of the reasons why he set up the now-delayed inquiry. Britain's security services have always denied using or condoning torture.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 15:03
|
|
- az jan jananam
- Sep 6, 2011
-
HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH
|
SexyBlindfold posted:
so apparently they tried to get Assad's wife out of the country and failed
This is probably another nonsense story. The al-Masry al-Yom story that was spread around only quotes "sources" within the FSA.
az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jan 31, 2012
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 15:26
|
|
- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
-
|
quote:Libya to investigate prison torture allegations
The Libyan government is to investigate reports by rights groups that former rebels who fought to oust Muammar Gaddafi are now torturing detainees in makeshift prisons around the country, Deputy Prime Minister Mustafa Abu Shagour said Tuesday.
Abu Shagour's comments were a response to a damning statement last Thursday by the aid agency Medecins Sans Frontieres, saying it had stopped its work in detention centres in the city of Misrata because its medical staff were being asked to patch up detainees mid-way through torture sessions so they could go back for more abuse.
The agency said it was in Misrata, 200 km (130 miles) east of the Libyan capital and scene of some of the fiercest battles in the conflict, to treat war-wounded detainees but was instead having to treat fresh wounds from torture.
"Any violations of human rights will be subject to investigations," Abu Shagour told a two-day workshop organised by the United Nations and the European Union to address Libya's immediate priorities in the transitional period.
"We are asking all revolutionaries to respect human rights," he said in a plea to the myriad locally based militias, many of whom continue to run their own prisons where they hold loyalists of the former regime detained during the revolution, and suspected criminals captured after liberation.
Reports of the mistreatment and disappearances of suspected Gaddafi loyalists are embarrassing for Libya's ruling National Transitional Council (NTC), which has vowed to make a break with practices under Gaddafi and respect human rights.
The allegations are also awkward for the Western powers which backed the anti-Gaddafi rebellion and helped install Libya's new leaders.
The ability of the government in Tripoli to rein in torture is limited as it is still struggling to bring to heel dozens of armed militias who have carved the country into rival fiefdoms and are so far refusing to disarm and join a newly created national army.
Many former rebels say they are suspicious of the country's new rulers and want to remain armed in case Gaddafi loyalists outside the country try to sow strife in Libya.
Foreign states are worried about the NTC's capacity to secure its borders against arms traffickers, al Qaeda insurgents and migrants trying to reach Europe illegally.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 15:46
|
|
- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
-
|
quote:Pro-Qaddafi ‘mass murderer’ awaits fate in Libyan jail
Ibrahim Sadeq Khalifa looks like any other young Libyan, but the 20-year-old prisoner has good reason to fear for his future in the new Libya.
By his own admission, Khalifa participated in the mass killing of civilians as Tripoli was falling.
The fair, healthy-looking man with a thin moustache and a beard was a soldier in Muammar Qaddafi’s military and is now an inmate with more than 100 others in a prison run by the new national army in Libya's third largest city of Misrata.
His crime, which he acknowledged in front of an AFP team touring the prison, was that he burned alive around 150 men in a garage in Tripoli as fighting raged between Qaddafi loyalists and former rebels in August last year.
“I threw grenades on them after my colleagues doused them in petrol. We then locked the garage and left. We burnt them alive,” Khalifa told AFP, of the massacre that he and four other Qaddafi soldiers carried out.
Khalifa admits that those killed by him and his comrades in the Khalit al-Farjan area of Tripoli on the afternoon of Aug. 22 were civilians.
He was captured by former rebels from his home in Tajura, a suburb of Tripoli, three days later, when the city was overrun by anti-Qaddafi fighters.
Shortly afterwards, rebel leaders spoke of the murder of more than 150 people in the capital.
“They were about 150 men from all age groups. They were huddled together in the garage,” Khalifa said, adding that he was following the orders of his superior officer.
“Yes I did it. I did what I was ordered to do by my officer in charge. When I went home that night, I could not sleep. I regret what I did,” said Khalifa, dressed in a blue T-shirt and tracksuit.
He was transferred on Sept. 5 to the Misrata prison after spending about two weeks with the ex-rebels, who he said beat him repeatedly.
Although there were no glaring signs of torture, a scar was visible near his collar bone.
“It is from a cigarette burn. The thuwar (anti-Qaddafi revolutionaries) did that,” he said when probed by AFP, speaking hesitatingly as jailor Ibrahim Beatelmal approached.
Prisons in Misrata, some run by the new army and others by former rebels, have gained notoriety after human rights groups accused them of conducting widespread torture of pro-Qaddafi men.
Beatelmal strongly denied the allegations, saying his prison was trying to offer the inmates the “best” it can.
“If we wanted to torture these prisoners, Khalifa is the best candidate for that. He has burnt alive 150 men,” Beatelmal said, as he smoked a cigarette.
“When he came to our prison he weighed 65 kilos. Now he is more than 80 kilos. That would not happen if you are tortured. I am angry at these human rights people. I don't even want to see their faces.”
Amnesty International reported last week that its delegates noticed signs of torture among prisoners in Tripoli, Misrata and smaller towns like Ghariyan.
“The torture is being carried out by officially recognized military and security entities, as well as by a multitude of armed militias operating outside any legal framework,” the rights group charged.
Doctors Without Borders suspended its work in Misrata complaining that its medics were increasingly confronted with patients who suffered injuries caused by torture during questioning.
“Patients were brought to us in the middle of interrogation for medical care, in order to make them fit for further interrogation. This is unacceptable,” its general director Christopher Stokes said in a statement.
The prison where Khalifa is being held was an administrative building under the Qaddafi regime.
It has tiny rooms, a compound in the center and three washrooms shared by the prison guards and prisoners. Most inmates are soldiers and officers from Qaddafi’s military.
Each cell is occupied by eight prisoners, said Nasser Ali Shabadoun, a prison administrator.
Mattresses, blankets, toothpaste and copies of the Koran lie scattered around, while the rusty window grills are used as clothes lines.
Outside, a pick-up truck drove into the compound bringing food for the inmates, two of whom unloaded meat, rice, bread and milk.
“The living conditions here are not bad, given the crimes these men have committed. The food too comes from a good caterer,” said Shabadoun.
The prison also has a few “high-profile” inmates, like Mansour Daw, Qaddafi’s internal security chief.
Daw was with the former Libyan strongman when he was captured in Sirte on Oct. 20. He is currently held in the Misrata prison with two other senior military officers in one room.
“I have no idea of what is happening outside. I have no access to any lawyer. But we are treated well,” an unshaven Daw told AFP, holding his prayer beads in one hand.
Like him, Khalifa and other inmates face a similarly uncertain fate.
“I have not met a lawyer or my family members. I don’t know what will happen to me,” said a visibly scared Khalifa.
“Only God knows what my future is,” he added, as a prison guard led him back to his cell and shut him in behind a brown, metal door.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 15:57
|
|
- Jut
- May 16, 2005
-
by Ralp
|
given taking MSF's word vs the NTC, I take MSF. They have no reason to make poo poo up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 16:02
|
|
- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
-
|
Here's the draft UN resolution on Syria
quote:UN draft resolution on Syria
The security council,
pp1 Recalling its presidential statement of 3 August 2011,
pp2 Recalling general assembly resolution A/Res/66/176 of 19 December, as well as human rights council resolutions S/16-1, S/17-1 and S/18-1,
pp3 Noting the League of Arab States' request in its decision of 22 January 2012,
pp4 Expressing grave concern at the deterioration of the situation in Syria, and profound concern at the death of thousands of people and calling for an immediate end to all violence,
pp5 Welcoming the League of Arab States' action plan of 2 November 2011 and its subsequent decisions, including its decision of 22 January 2012, and supporting full implementation with the aim of a peaceful resolution of the crisis,
pp6 Noting the deployment of the League of Arab States' observer mission, commending its efforts, regretting that, due to the escalation in violence, the observer mission was not in a position to monitor the full implementation of the League of Arab States' action plan of 2 November 2011, and noting the subsequent decision of the League of Arab states to suspend the mission,
pp7 Underscoring the importance of ensuring the return of refugees and internally displaced persons voluntarily to their homes in safety and with dignity,
pp8 Expressing grave concern at the continued transfer of weapons into Syria which fuels the violence and calling on member states to take necessary steps to prevent such flow of arms'
pp9 Mindful that stability in Syria is key to peace and stability in the region,
pp10 Reaffirming its strong commitment to the sovereignty, independence, unity and territorial integrity of Syria, emphasising the need to resolve the current crisis in Syria peacefully, and stressing that nothing in this resolution compels States to resort to the use of force or the threat of force,
pp11 Welcoming the engagement of the secretary-general and all diplomatic efforts aimed at addressing this situation,
pp12 Acting under chapter VI of the charter of the United Nations,
1. Condemns the continued widespread and gross violations of human rights and fundamental freedoms by the Syrian authorities such as the use of force against civilians, arbitrary executions, killing and persecution of protestors and members of the media, arbitrary detention, enforced disappearances, interference with access to medical treatment, torture, sexual violence, and ill-treatment, including against children;
2. Demands that the Syrian government immediately puts an end to all human rights violations and attacks against those exercising their rights to freedom of expression, peaceful assembly and association, protect its population, fully comply with its obligations under applicable international law and fully implement the human rights council resolutions S-16/1, S-17/1, S-18/1 and the general assembly resolution A/RES/66/176;
3. Condemns all violence, irrespective of where it comes from, and in this regard demands that all parties in Syria, including armed groups, immediately stop all violence or reprisals, including attacks against state institutions, in accordance with the League of Arab States' initiative;
4. Recalls that all those responsible for human rights violations, including acts of violence, must be held accountable;
5. Demands that the Syrian government, in accordance with the plan of action of the League of Arab States of 2 November 2011 and its decision of 22 January 2012, without delay:
(a) ceases all violence and protect its population;
(b) releases all arbitrarily detained persons due to the recent incidents;
(c) withdraws all Syrian military and armed forces from cities and towns, and return them to their original home barracks;
(d) guarantees the freedom of peaceful demonstrations;
(e) allows full and unhindered access and movement for all relevant League of Arab States' institutions and Arab and international media in all parts of Syria to determine the truth about the situation on the ground and monitor the incidents taking place; and
(f) allows full and unhindered access to the League of Arab States' observer mission;
6. Calls for an inclusive Syrian-led political process conducted in an environment free from violence, fear, intimidation and extremism and aimed at effectively addressing the legitimate aspirations and concerns of Syria's people;
7. Fully supports in this regard the League of Arab States' initiative set out in its 22 January 2012 decision to facilitate a political transition leading to a democratic, plural political system, in which citizens are equal regardless of their affiliations or ethnicities or beliefs, including through commencing a serious political dialogue between the Syrian government and the whole spectrum of the Syrian opposition under the League of Arab States' auspices, in accordance with the timetable set out by the League of Arab States, aimed at:
1. formation of a national unity government;
2. delegation by the President of Syria of his full authority to his Deputy to fully cooperate with the national unity government in order to empower it to perform its duties in the transitional period; and
3. transparent and free elections under Arab and international supervision
7. Encourages the League of Arab States to continue its efforts in co-operation with all Syrian stakeholders;
8. Calls upon the Syrian authorities, in the event of a resumption of the observer mission, to co-operate fully with the League of Arab States' observer mission, in accordance with the League of Arabs States' protocol of 19 December 2011, including through granting full and unhindered access and freedom of movement to the observers, facilitating the entry of technical equipments necessary for the mission, guaranteeing the mission's rights to interview, freely or in private, any individual and guaranteeing also not to punish, harass, or retaliate against, any person who has co-operated with the mission;
9. Stresses the need for all to provide all necessary assistance to the mission in accordance with the League of Arab States' protocol of 19 December 2011 and its decision of 22 January 2012;
10. Demands that the Syrian authorities co-operate fully with the office of the high commissioner for human rights and with the commission of inquiry dispatched by the Human rights council, including by granting it full and unimpeded access to the country;
11. Calls upon the Syrian authorities to allow safe and unhindered access for humanitarian assistance in order to ensure the delivery of humanitarian aid to persons in need of assistance;
12. Welcomes the secretary-general's efforts to provide support to the League of Arab States, including its observer mission, in promoting a peaceful solution to the Syrian crisis;
13. Takes note of the measures imposed by the League of Arab States on the Syrian authorities on 27 November 2011, and encourages all States to adopt similar steps and fully to cooperate with the League of Arab States in the implementation of its measures;
Follow-up
14. Requests the secretary-general to report on the implementation of this resolution, in consultation with the League of Arab States, within 15 days after its adoption – and to report every 30 days thereafter;
15. Decides to review Syria's implementation of this resolution within 15 days and, in the event that Syria has not complied, to adopt further measures, in consultation with the League of Arab States;
16. Decides to remain actively seized of the matter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 16:25
|
|
- Sir John Falstaff
- Apr 13, 2010
-
|
Brown Moses posted:
Libya has rejected the claims of torture
Personally I think they might be hiding something...
I suspect it's a combination of hiding something, in that they probably knew more about the torture than they will admit, and of not having much control over the militias and authorities in some of the places where the torture was most common. It seems to be partly a function of the weakness of the NTC as a government.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 16:30
|
|
- Jut
- May 16, 2005
-
by Ralp
|
Brown Moses posted:
Here's the draft UN resolution on Syria
well calling for assad to step down pretty much kills this resolution.
I'm wondering how much of this is a hangover from the cold war though. Russia and Syria are cosy. The US and Bahrain and Saudi are also chums yet their crackdowns went ahead without a problem.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 16:37
|
|
- Zedsdeadbaby
- Jun 14, 2008
-
You have been called out, in the ways of old.
|
Doesn't Russia have a massive arms trade with Syria?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 17:25
|
|
- J33uk
- Oct 24, 2005
-
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:
Doesn't Russia have a massive arms trade with Syria?
There was a quote from the Russian FM that pretty much said "We don't see any reason to stop arms shipments that are a regular part of our commerce with Syria". It's not like they're trying to hide their motivations or anything.
Edit: Here we go!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-31/russia-will-never-allow-libya-style-syria-solution-lavrov-says.html
quote:
“We are arming the constitutional government,’’ Lavrov said, adding that Russia was implementing contractual obligations in delivering the weapons. “The arms we are selling to Syria, they are not used against demonstrators.’
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 17:27
|
|
- Zedsdeadbaby
- Jun 14, 2008
-
You have been called out, in the ways of old.
|
The more countries that aren't satellites of Russia, the better. I really hate those scumbags.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 17:54
|
|
- Jut
- May 16, 2005
-
by Ralp
|
They are not doing anything that's out of ordinary. Remember the US have had no problem in supplying arms to Bahrain which was also involved in a bloody crackdown.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 17:58
|
|
- J33uk
- Oct 24, 2005
-
|
Jut posted:
They are not doing anything that's out of ordinary. Remember the US have had no problem in supplying arms to Bahrain which was also involved in a bloody crackdown.
And still are. Obama just did a nice little end around on Congress on that (transparency!). That said, there is a difference in the scale of the violence, if Bahrain was currently looking like Syria if doubt they'd be able to get away with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 18:22
|
|
- Nuclear Spoon
- Aug 18, 2010
-
I want to cry out
but I don’t scream and I don’t shout
And I feel so proud
to be alive
|
Zedsdeadbaby posted:
The more countries that aren't satellites of Russia, the better. I really hate those scumbags.
The US is no better.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 18:41
|
|
- Herstory Begins Now
- Aug 5, 2003
-
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>
|
J33uk posted:
And still are. Obama just did a nice little end around on Congress on that (transparency!). That said, there is a difference in the scale of the violence, if Bahrain was currently looking like Syria if doubt they'd be able to get away with.
Yeah, it's not like Bahrain was trying to shoot doctors and ambulance drivers...
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 18:52
|
|
- Golbez
- Oct 9, 2002
-
1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine
|
Nuclear Spoon posted:
The US is no better.
It's bad, yes, but it's wrong to say no better. Maybe a little more hypocritical, but at least we try to feel bad when our weapons are used against protestors.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 18:58
|
|
- J33uk
- Oct 24, 2005
-
|
The-Mole posted:
Yeah, it's not like Bahrain was trying to shoot doctors and ambulance drivers...
I wasn't talking about the morality of either situation, I was talking about the scale, Bahrain doesn't have a deathtoll in the thousands yet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 19:07
|
|
- Jut
- May 16, 2005
-
by Ralp
|
J33uk posted:
I wasn't talking about the morality of either situation, I was talking about the scale, Bahrain doesn't have a deathtoll in the thousands yet.
we can talk about scale if you want.
Bahrain has a native population of just over 650,000 compared to Syria's 22 million. You're never going to see a death toll in the thousands in Bahrain with a population that small.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 19:13
|
|
- J33uk
- Oct 24, 2005
-
|
Jut posted:
we can talk about scale if you want.
Bahrain has a native population of just over 650,000 compared to Syria's 22 million. You're never going to see a death toll in the thousands in Bahrain with a population that small.
Even taking that into accounts the numbers still don't suggest that the scale of violence is comparable. It's still loving awful.
Edit: Ban Ki Moon continues to have the optimism of a cat herder.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/Syria
quote:
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said on Tuesday he hoped the Security Council would be united and reflect international will when it deliberates a draft resolution calling on Assad to quit power.
"I sincerely hope the Security Council will be united and speak in a coherent manner reflecting the wishes of the international community," he told reporters in the Jordanian capital. "This is crucially important." [Reuters]
J33uk fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jan 31, 2012
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 19:25
|
|
- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
-
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
|
https://carnegie-mec.org/publications/?fa=46908&lang=en
Some important points in here about how Syria's neighbors, even Turkey, really want to avoid economic sanctions or having to close the border.
quote:
Yet, the Arab League’s decisiveness obscures a dilemma. Implicit in its most recent decrees is the acknowledgment that it can do no more. Strikingly, it did not reimpose the economic boycott originally announced on November 27, 2011—and subsequently lifted when the Syrian regime signed the Arab action plan in December, promising to withdraw army units from the cities, release detainees, and allow peaceful protests—nor did it implement its previous threat to ban Arab civil aviation flights to and from Syria. This reflects the lack of consensus among league members, and the reality that none of the neighbors with which Syria has major trade or labor flows, which ensure continued receipt of hard currency remittances, has closed its border.
Nor, with the possible exception of Turkey, will they: Iraq voted against the original economic boycott and looks set to act as Syria’s “extra lung” by providing it with an economic corridor to Iran and diesel oil imports. Lebanon abstained and is unable to apply a land blockade in any case because of its deep divisions within its own politics over Syria, while Jordan voted in favor but immediately requested an exemption from implementing the boycott due to its own economic circumstances.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 20:31
|
|
- Jut
- May 16, 2005
-
by Ralp
|
Who in the Arab league are pushing for sanctions? I presume it's Qatar, UAE, Saudi and maybe Bahrain?
Jut fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 31, 2012
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 20:55
|
|
- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
-
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
|
Well the original AL plan was to have sanctions, but they got pulled back because of the monitoring mission. Those sanctions were approved 19 to 3. The no votes were Iraq and Lebanon and either Syria or Algeria, I can't remember if Syria was suspended from voting at the time. Syria was suspended but I believe the no count is including them because otherwise the numbers don't add up.
I don't believe sanctions are being brought up as of now by anyone because the current push is at the United Nations, and sanctions will never get past the Security Council.
Xandu fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 31, 2012
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 21:03
|
|
- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
-
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
|
I hope someone uploads this to youtube, that show has the best fights.
https://twitter.com/#!/Hammonda1 posted:
as the two of them jostled themselves off the screen, the word 'sharmoota' was heard and the broadcast was cut #syria #ajopp
9 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Hammonda1 Andrew Hammond
unbelievable scene on al Jazeera's Opposite Direction - pro-Assad guest got up and attacked other guy (Ladikani?), show stopped. #syria
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 21:10
|
|
- az jan jananam
- Sep 6, 2011
-
HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH
|
Security Council is meeting right now, channel 4- http://www.unmultimedia.org/tv/webcast/index.html
Also-
quote:DAMASCUS—Noting that without the brutal subjugation of its masses a totalitarian state is effectively meaningless, Syrian officials announced this week that the country is experiencing a severe shortage of civilians to tyrannize. "After a year of continuously putting down popular uprisings with increasingly extreme violence, the regime is now running very low on people to crush beneath its iron fist," said Prime Minister Adel Safar, later adding that the government would need to seriously reevaluate its approach to indiscriminate slaughter, with an eye toward rebuilding a healthy population of oppressible citizens. "Effective immediately, we will focus more on murdering the sick and the old, while placing reasonable limits on the execution of pregnant women in the streets." The Syrian government is also reportedly looking into the possibility of importing roughly 50,000 people from Iran, which has long enjoyed a surplus of citizens to brutalize. az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jan 31, 2012
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 21:22
|
|
- Shageletic
- Jul 25, 2007
-
|
Xandu posted:
I hope someone uploads this to youtube, that show has the best fights.
Heh, shermoota means bitch or whore, right?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 21:36
|
|
- Sivias
- Dec 12, 2006
-
I think we can just sit around and just talk about our feelings.
|
Wait, what? Was that a rough translation or something?
How can a totalitarian government run out of subjects to persecute? Are they referring to the anti-government rebels? Because from the sounds of it, they are plenty of them.
Pro-government civilians? Sounds like there are a lot of them as well - but why would you indiscriminately slaughter them?
Importing Iranians for torture and subjugation?
Maybe I'm missing something because that quote doesn't make any sense. Also, the link is a 404.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 21:38
|
|
- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
-
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
|
It's clearly satire.
Shageletic posted:
Heh, shermoota means bitch or whore, right?
Yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 21:39
|
|
- az jan jananam
- Sep 6, 2011
-
HI, I'M HARDCORE SAX HERE TO DROP A NICE JUICY TURD OF A POST FROM UP ON HIGH
|
The Syrian representative to the UNSC is speaking now. He's reciting Nizar Qabbani of all things.
Sivias posted:
Wait, what? Was that a rough translation or something?
How can a totalitarian government run out of subjects to persecute? Are they referring to the anti-government rebels? Because from the sounds of it, they are plenty of them.
Pro-government civilians? Sounds like there are a lot of them as well - but why would you indiscriminately slaughter them?
Importing Iranians for torture and subjugation?
Maybe I'm missing something because that quote doesn't make any sense. Also, the link is a 404.
It was an Onion article. Sorry for not linking but this was a pretty funny reaction.
az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jan 31, 2012
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 21:43
|
|
- J33uk
- Oct 24, 2005
-
|
According to our fine Syrian friend the observers mission was a great success and this is the Arab League attempting to undermine it. Oh dear.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 22:15
|
|
- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
-
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
|
At least of three of the speakers so far (not sure about Clinton, though she called the Libya comparison a false analogy) explicitly rejected foreign military intervention.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 22:41
|
|
- J33uk
- Oct 24, 2005
-
|
From what people are saying about the Syrian TV coverage they seem to be working the audience to expect a Russian veto.
Edit: The UN is currently not the most popular institution on Twitter. drat.
J33uk fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Feb 1, 2012
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 23:04
|
|
- Adbot
-
ADBOT LOVES YOU
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2024 06:22
|
|
- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
-
It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
|
Xandu posted:
I hope someone uploads this to youtube, that show has the best fights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSwvWs0bnHk
edit: I didn't notice when reading the draft on the Syria res, but it wasn't even a Chapter 7 resolution.
Xandu fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Feb 1, 2012
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2012 00:35
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2012 10:03
