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Hodgepodge posted:Is it too much to ask for it to die in development hell, I wonder? I just hope they're keeping a record of all the nerd idiocy so we can get a cool documentary about it in 4 or 5 years where all they do is read a post/email/article/ or play a voice mail/video while either Morgan Freeman or James Earl Jones says "[screen name of current exhibit's author] you killed Batman." Interspersed with the 20 different writers and directors at one point attached to the movie, who talk about their passion for the project and how the fans just killed that passion like Jack The Ripper.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:13
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Nice belts Bruciroth. Detective No. 27 posted:They really should just shut up about The Batman until they're closer to shooting. It's maybe four films away. Agreed on both counts. Batfleck is great but I feel like this version of the character works much better in a group dynamic and I wonder if this film isn't having so much development trouble for the same reason. His arc as an individual is basically over at the start of BvS, he's in a downward spiral of cynicism and obsession that only engagement with the wider world of the supernatural changes and his new purpose going forward is so much bigger than just beating up costumed gangsters in Detroit East.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:31
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We're getting Batfleck again this year, anyway.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:37
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The MSJ posted:We're getting Batfleck again this year, anyway. Yeah. He appears to be the central character in Justice League, that version was in two movies last year, and there's a theatrical Batman movie in theatres RIGHT NOW. My screen name is Batman, and I once won a "biggest Batman fan in Phoenix" contest and even I'm tired ofthe guy.
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Feb 18, 2017 03:59
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:What the gently caress is going on with The Batman? I don't know but it ~*seems*~ like the studio just wants to control and bumrush over the director because they're desperate. They're gonna Suicide Squad it. At least we have Snyder. Long live the king.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:02
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Drifter posted:I don't know but it ~*seems*~ like the studio just wants to control and bumrush over the director because they're desperate. They're gonna Suicide Squad it. At this point, I kinda feel like they'll default on him directing it.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:05
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Detective No. 27 posted:At this point, I kinda feel like they'll default on him directing it. Honestly, Snyder has done amazing work, but I think the poor guy deserves a break, and a chance to do something different.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:08
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dont even fink about it posted:Power Rangers working on the theory that making a decent Fantastic Four movie isn't that loving hard. Myth: The Incredibles is the best Fantastic 4 movie. Reality: Ninja Turtles 2014 is the best Fantastic 4 Movie.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:10
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The MSJ posted:The sequel is still in pre-production. My questions still stand!
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Feb 18, 2017 04:11
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teagone posted:There's nothing to convince. God bless. Don't insult yourself. Edit: Shame about the lack of an explanation, though. Making stuff up on the spot about the direction is tough. Judakel fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Feb 18, 2017 04:13
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My prediction is that with Wonder Woman and Justice League we get two more good-but-unconventional movies, and then Aquaman by James "good-but-conventional" Wan will drop and set the tone for everything else we can expect to follow as Marvelization sets in. Expect to see a lot of, "Well, who woulda thought Shazam would turn out to be the best DC film?"
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Feb 18, 2017 04:19
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K. Waste posted:"Well, who woulda thought Shazam would turn out to be the best DC film?" Me. I would expect this. The only Shazam fan under 80 years old.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Myth: The Incredibles is the best Fantastic 4 movie. Hell, when you're right, you're right.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:25
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K. Waste posted:My prediction is that with Wonder Woman and Justice League we get two more good-but-unconventional movies, and then Aquaman by James "good-but-conventional" Wan will drop and set the tone for everything else we can expect to follow as Marvelization sets in. Expect to see a lot of, "Well, who woulda thought Shazam would turn out to be the best DC film?" DC movies will eventually be "what if Marvel movies have better direction and cinematography". Speaking of Marvel, though, anyone else think that Infinity War will be a bridge too far for the MCU? Not the 1977 movie with Sean Connery, but I fear the strain of juggling too many characters and storyline will unfortunately break the Russo brothers.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:32
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Myth: The Incredibles is the best Fantastic 4 movie. True and accurate: 2005 Fantastic 4 is the best Fantastic 4 movie.
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Feb 18, 2017 04:44
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K. Waste posted:My prediction is that with Wonder Woman and Justice League we get two more good-but-unconventional movies, and then Aquaman by James "good-but-conventional" Wan will drop and set the tone for everything else we can expect to follow as Marvelization sets in. Expect to see a lot of, "Well, who woulda thought Shazam would turn out to be the best DC film?" Considering DC seems to be convinced that their problem is tone, I fear the worst. The sword choreography video does give me hope that they're going to draw on some of the cooler things from the Sword Of Atlantis period though. Still, Shazam has The Rock. Nobody should bet against The Rock making a super punchmans movie that audiences love.
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Feb 18, 2017 05:14
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The MSJ posted:We're getting Batfleck again this year, anyway. Don't get me wrong, I think the solution to those issues is "don't make another Batman movie (and probably dial him back a bit in the rest of it, too)". Either that or take a hard left turn and make a live action Brave and the Bold. Detective No. 27 posted:Me. I would expect this. The only Shazam fan under 80 years old. The only other one. 
McSpanky fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Feb 18, 2017 05:26
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K. Waste posted:My prediction is that with Wonder Woman and Justice League we get two more good-but-unconventional movies, and then Aquaman by James "good-but-conventional" Wan will drop and set the tone for everything else we can expect to follow as Marvelization sets in. Expect to see a lot of, "Well, who woulda thought Shazam would turn out to be the best DC film?" My prediction is that Wonder Woman and Justice League will have conventional superhero themes compromised by ham-fisted writing, poor editing, and interference from executives who don't have a unified vision for the films or the franchise they're trying to build, much like Man of Steel, BvS, and Suicide Squad.
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Feb 18, 2017 05:27
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Cythereal posted:My prediction is that Wonder Woman and Justice League will have conventional superhero themes compromised by ham-fisted writing, poor editing, and interference from executives who don't have a unified vision for the films or the franchise they're trying to build, much like Man of Steel, BvS, and Suicide Squad. I don't know all that much about editing so it's always kinda hard for me to respond to those criticisms. What is bad about the editing? How should it be changed?
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Feb 18, 2017 05:36
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"ham-fisted writing" means either "NOT MY SUPERMAN/BATMAN" or "I dislike Goyer's writing style", but the same people who blindly hate MoS and BvS tend to love TDK, which was also written by Goyer, so "poor editing" can mean anything from "zack snyder is an objectivist hack who is RUINING comic book movies FOREVER" to "i don't understand how movies work" to "I don't like zack snyder's direction", and the latter is fair enough but not really a complaint about the editing per se. "interference from executives" is mostly complaining that it's not enough like the MCU, except for when they completely rewrite a minor side-film and sideline the director (like Marvel did to Ant-Man), in which case they...are still not enough like the MCU??? For all Marvel plays up Winter Soldier as a 'political thriller' and Ant-Man as a 'comedy heist' Man of Steel actually is an alien invasion film that happens to feature comic book characters, and it's dope
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Feb 18, 2017 06:26
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ungulateman posted:"interference from executives" is mostly complaining that it's not enough like the MCU, except for when they completely rewrite a minor side-film and sideline the director (like Marvel did to Ant-Man), in which case they...are still not enough like the MCU??? Uhh,m it actually means that it's TOO MUCH like the bland Marvel movies. Or that it's been cut to poo poo and given six rewrites with 18 different punch-up writers.
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Feb 18, 2017 06:50
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Was Doctor Strange supposed to be a comedy? I've never seen a movie so afraid of its own serious moments that it has to shove shtick into every corner it can. Even the big presumably tragic/heroic moment to save the world through continual self sacrifice is played more as a gag
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Feb 18, 2017 06:53
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ungulateman posted:
Actually, the insular editing of Batman V Superman is of a very high standard, a good example of this any of the myriad action scenes which fundamentally understand the benefit of displaying clear cause and effect in the way that it's cuts between moments and using well timed cuts to accentuate moments - a good example being when Batman pulls that box, three shots in quick succession to sell the speed of the box - so yes it is mostly action-reaction continuity type stuff but it so well shot and effectively timed and applied that it works very well. The issues with the editing are rather on the structural end of the scale, so scene placement. There is often no connective tissue between the scenes; a good example of a moment in it WITH solid connection is the cut between Bruce's flashback to him in the following scene where he rushes through Metropolis, there is a clear through line there. But very often, in that first half of the film, scenes almost seem to happen randomly without that connective tissue, or context, which does damage to the overall pacing. Obviously a lot of this stuff is done in the scripting stages, but, things are often re-formed in the edit. Suicide Squad suffers from similar problems. This is probably what people are referring to when they criticize the editing. Karloff fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Feb 18, 2017 07:13
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Doctor Strange was supposed to be funny a lot of the time yes.
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Feb 18, 2017 07:24
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CelticPredator posted:Doctor Strange was supposed to be funny a lot of the time yes. That's not what I asked. I asked was it advertised as such? Or rather I meant to ask that, the message may have been muddled. Every commercial I saw presented it as just a regular Marvel movie. Strange went above and beyond that
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Feb 18, 2017 07:33
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Trailers aren't always a good representation for the film.
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Feb 18, 2017 07:40
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They usually let you know if you should expect a comedy or not. But even beyond that, this movie was just...confusing. it seriously just seemed like they were afraid of having a single serious scene without something happening. It made the moments that were meant to be really serious just fall flat and hard to take. The pacing was also kind of atrocious to begin with. We are told most of Strange's character flaws instead of seeing them in action. It's like they really didn't want to do an origin story, but they did one anyways despite the fact that they didn't want to do one, so they just rushed through it as fast as possible. We should not have to learn that Strange is bad with money and is going broke because his girlfriend tells us exactly that in nearly those words. It wasn't a bad movie, it just...I don't know. I don't think it really was comfortable with what it was.
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Feb 18, 2017 07:43
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Burkion posted:That's not what I asked. I thought Strange had about as much humor as the other marvel movies had quips.
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Feb 18, 2017 07:45
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Karloff posted:The issues with the editing are rather on the structural end of the scale, so scene placement. There is often no connective tissue between the scenes; a good example of a moment in it WITH solid connection is the cut between Bruce's flashback to him in the following scene where he rushes through Metropolis, there is a clear through line there. But very often, in that first half of the film, scenes almost seem to happen randomly without that connective tissue, or context, which does damage to the overall pacing. Obviously a lot of this stuff is done in the scripting stages, but, things are often re-formed in the edit. Suicide Squad suffers from similar problems. This is probably what people are referring to when they criticize the editing. Oh yeah, fair enough. I think I saw a video from Folding Ideas on this, actually, focusing on Man of Steel's opening. I think he slightly misunderstands the purpose of the flashbacks, and is somewhat misled by previous expectations of who Superman is, but it's an actual argument and I don't know enough about editing to convincingly counter it, really. BvS' editing is more interesting in this regard because the theatrical release is borderline experimental in how much of the story is torn away to preserve particular visual and thematic ideas. Like, they completely cut the scene that straightforwardly tells you Lex Luthor is crazy and worships demons from outer space, rather than the one where he's just crazy and a painting of angels and demons is upside down. I really like how that painting communicates that idea, but the Communion scene absolutely would have made a lot of people complain less about Luthor's motivation. Along the same lines, Batman's absurd fever-dream seems like it was hardly cut at all, because the badass metaphorical dream-fight-cum-prophetic-vision is both a great scene and very important to understanding Batman, while explaining how he relates to the real world is pushed almost entirely to the side, because he kinda doesn't. Similarly, cutting the majority of Lois' scenes preserves the key conflicts, but weakens Superman's human side, making it a lot easier to misinterpret his rescue-montage as "Superman is struggling to care about people" as opposed to "Superman is uncomfortable with being God". It turns out people are generally better at getting characterisation from dialogue than visually! I think the worst structural editing is probably the finale - while I quite like individual scenes like Luthor creating Doomsday, Superman being reborn in the sunlight, and the killing blow referencing Excalibur, the 'connective tissue' as you put it is worn extremely thin in places. It's nowhere near as coherent as the fight against the World Engine or Zod from MoS. Overall I thought BvS wasn't as good as MoS, and thinking about the editing more broadly helps me articulate that better. This has been a Good Ramble, thanks
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Feb 18, 2017 07:47
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Drifter posted:I thought Strange had about as much humor as the other marvel movies had quips. Quips I can deal with. Quips come from characters, they're jokes the characters make. It says something about the characters themselves. RoboCop quips. Marvel overdoes it with the quips and it can make their characters come off as sociopaths, but that's neither here nor there. This was straight up shtick. Like, if it wasn't for the fact that the movie was loaded with gags and jokes, I would say the story was a very serious one in tone because all of it was very serious except every now and again something really goofy happens that kind of flies in the face of what was being done. I'm not upset that the movie had funny moments- Batman V Superman had some great funny moments especially with Alfred. They just seemed so at odds with what the movie was about.
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Feb 18, 2017 07:50
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Burkion posted:Quips I can deal with. Quips come from characters, they're jokes the characters make. It says something about the characters themselves. RoboCop quips. It's been a while, so I can't really think of many instances of what you're talking about. The wi-fi Shamballa gag, the "Mr Doctor" bit, the dumb "That Wong, boy his name sure is funny" jokes, the Cape of Levitation fuckin' raging out and also petting Strange, Scaring his ex as a ghost, and...? Was there anything in particular that really set your hackles up?
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Feb 18, 2017 07:59
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Drifter posted:It's been a while, so I can't really think of many instances of what you're talking about. Honestly a lot of them have faded from memory but it wasn't like they were constant. One that does stick out as something that just kind of made me roll my eyes was the gag with Strange stealing books from under Wong's nose, including the one he was reading. The fact that they weren't consistent or constant also made them stick out all the more. Because again, if I had to describe the movie's story, it'd be a very serious one. The villains are very serious the stakes are very serious the situation is very serious. Strange is very serious, what happened to him is very serious It's all very serious and straight forward And then his cape starts petting him and he has to make it stop. Or the entire ending bit which is completely played as a gag how he keeps dying over and over and the reaction from it. In theory that should have been the heart and soul of the movie, showing how far he's come, how much he's willing to sacrifice himself Instead it's just kind of ridiculous and silly and entirely because that's what they intended. Then they decide to end it on a serious threat? Like I said the movie confuses me. If it wanted to be a comedy, that's one thing. Even an action comedy. But it's really not.
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Feb 18, 2017 08:19
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Judakel posted:The direction is actually quite average and unremarkable. Don't correct me. Hi, please discuss cinema in Cinema Discusso.
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Feb 18, 2017 09:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Myth: The Incredibles is the best Fantastic 4 movie. is it because its more fantastical
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Feb 18, 2017 09:28
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I get what you mean Burkion. It's like in Ant-Man when Hank and Hope are reconciling over her mother's death and right when the moment reaches its emotional zenith, Scott slides into the scene and ruins it with a stupid line, then says "I'm ruining the moment, aren't I?" just to drive it home. You can feel the film wiping its brow because whew that was a close one, we almost had some sincere, honest drama for a second! And I'm not even mad about Ant-Man, it was a much better film overall at juggling its dramatic and comedic elements, I just thought that one time it went too far. With Dr. Strange it never found the balance to begin with, almost every time things got serious it snaps back with some mugging or a sight gag or a pithy one-liner to break up all that earnestness and bring the FUN back, just to head right back into another serious business scenario.
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Feb 18, 2017 09:43
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Strange definitely would have benefited from having a couple of jokes cut.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:13
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Doctor Strange even have the meta joke of Strange being bad at jokes.
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Feb 18, 2017 12:35
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Pirate Jet posted:Hi, please discuss cinema in Cinema Discusso. 2 be fair it's not like that post is any less detailed than the one they're replying to
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Feb 18, 2017 12:45
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https://twitter.com/dceufacts/status/832909367645073413
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Feb 18, 2017 13:36
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Drifter posted:Or that it's been cut to poo poo and given six rewrites with 18 different punch-up writers. This is what I meant, yes. A particularly glaring problem with Suicide Squad.
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Feb 18, 2017 13:50
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