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A flicker of annoyance spasms across your face. How pointless, you think.
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Oct 23, 2017 01:56
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Saucer Crab posted:DRK 30-50 is really bad and dumb and forces a ton of characterization upon the WoL that the rest of the game wisely avoids doing. The 50-60 questline is much better and actually tells a nice little story and is one of the better HW ones. I haven't touched DRK in SB but since everyone keeps saying it follows from 30-50 I imagine it has to be bad as well. Link to the OF thread you got this from?
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Oct 23, 2017 01:58
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Saucer Crab posted:DRK 30-50 is really bad and dumb and forces a ton of characterization upon the WoL that the rest of the game wisely avoids doing. The 50-60 questline is much better and actually tells a nice little story and is one of the better HW ones. I haven't touched DRK in SB but since everyone keeps saying it follows from 30-50 I imagine it has to be bad as well. This but the exact opposite of everything they said.
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Oct 23, 2017 02:02
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Saucer Crab posted:DRK 30-50 is really bad and dumb and forces a ton of characterization upon the WoL that the rest of the game wisely avoids doing. The 50-60 questline is much better and actually tells a nice little story and is one of the better HW ones. I haven't touched DRK in SB but since everyone keeps saying it follows from 30-50 I imagine it has to be bad as well. Jesus Christ.
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Oct 23, 2017 02:18
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Saucer Crab posted:DRK 30-50 is really bad and dumb and forces a ton of characterization upon the WoL that the rest of the game wisely avoids doing. The 50-60 questline is much better and actually tells a nice little story and is one of the better HW ones. I haven't touched DRK in SB but since everyone keeps saying it follows from 30-50 I imagine it has to be bad as well. I've never been more insulted
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Oct 23, 2017 02:20
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Saucer Crab posted:DRK 30-50 is really bad and dumb and forces a ton of characterization upon the WoL that the rest of the game wisely avoids doing. The 50-60 questline is much better and actually tells a nice little story and is one of the better HW ones. I haven't touched DRK in SB but since everyone keeps saying it follows from 30-50 I imagine it has to be bad as well. 
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Oct 23, 2017 02:22
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Pull back, pull back.
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Oct 23, 2017 02:26
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Saucer Crab posted:DRK 30-50 is really bad and dumb and forces a ton of characterization upon the WoL that the rest of the game wisely avoids doing. The 50-60 questline is much better and actually tells a nice little story and is one of the better HW ones. I haven't touched DRK in SB but since everyone keeps saying it follows from 30-50 I imagine it has to be bad as well. source your quotes it'd be really, really weird if the WoL wasn't mad as hell about being betrayed by the Ul'Dahn's as thanks for putting their life on the line again and again. The whole point of the questline was basically about doing the right thing (possibly with a bit less naivete) in spite of that, instead of just giving up or becoming a pure mercenary or whatever. Bonus Level 70 spoilers: Also, from your experiences, Fray winds up going from "gently caress it, look out for number one" into more of a righteous anger and determination type when s/he pops back up. Also, the 60-70 quests are about PTSD and the strange, sick perception of self-worthlessness.
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Oct 23, 2017 02:33
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I still can't believe they haven't tweaked the numbers on Dark Passenger, though.
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Oct 23, 2017 03:10
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Solo Wing Pixy posted:it'd be really, really weird if the WoL wasn't mad as hell about being betrayed by the Ul'Dahn's as thanks for putting their life on the line again and again. Agreed. Also, Yuyuhase should be punted off of Witchdrop.
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Oct 23, 2017 03:33
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The best moments of the writing in this game are when the let the WoL be a real person and have actual friendships and react to poo poo that happens in ways other than stoic nods (Haruchefaunt, Rahbaun and Nanamo in the recent patch) so the DRK night quest are the best.
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Oct 23, 2017 04:15
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I enjoyed that when you're talking with Lolorito, if you pick the two Ala Whatever options when he's asking about what areas to revitalize, instead of just saying 'the Saltery' you can also say 'You really want me to say the Saltery, don't you?'.
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Oct 23, 2017 04:18
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Against my better judgment, I've had to bring in people from my raid static to fill in spots, hoping to get them an O4S clear tomorrow night. We still need a co-healer! If any healers or tanks that have cleared O4S and are interested in Ultimate wants to join, this is your last chance to say so!  Make sure the scheduled raid time isn't a problem! https://catgirl.bargains/topic/213-ultimania-goon-static-extreme-savage-ultimate/ 
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Oct 23, 2017 04:47
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The person who says the quests that give your character a defined characterisation are bad is correct. Don't write a game built purely on a player avatar and then define their reactions, thoughts and feelings like the game constantly does with Haurchefaunt in general. There's room for "I miss Haurchefaunt a lot, he was my close friend" and "It sucks he's dead, but I wasn't that close to him" but not pushing one of those exclusively. Made me cringe in the latest patch when Fordola does her mind reading on you and it shows you infront of Faunty's grave. I don't remember ever going there, where it is and I sure as hell don't give a sheeit. Write defined characters that way, not passive camera point characters which the WoL is and was always meant to be. Somebody fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Oct 24, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 09:42
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The best moments of the writing in this game are when the let the WoL be a real person and have actual friendships and react to poo poo that happens in ways other than stoic nods (Haruchefaunt, Rahbaun and Nanamo in the recent patch) so the DRK night quest are the best. Oh, absolutely. I finished that The Paths We Walk quest chain last night, and it was very well-done and surprisingly touching. Making me get all sentimental about video game characters in a catgirl waifu simulator.  Josuke Higashikata posted:The person who says the quests that give your character a defined characterisation are bad is correct. Don't write a game built purely on a player avatar and then define their reactions, thoughts and feelings like the game constantly does with Haurchefaunt in general. There's room for "I miss Haurchefaunt a lot, he was my close friend" and "It sucks he's dead, but I wasn't that close to him" but not pushing one of those exclusively. Made me cringe in the latest patch when Fordola does her mind reading on you and it shows you infront of Faunty's grave. I don't remember ever going there, where it is and I sure as hell don't give a sheeit. Eh. Honestly, I'd say that one of this game's biggest strengths is that the main character actually has some hints of a personality instead of just being a cipher for Green Jesus/Treesus/whoever. I will sort of agree with you on Haurchefant though, inasmuch as they've probably hit the point where using his death (and only his death, apparently the WoL didn't give a crap about Minfilia and barely cared about Ysayle) as the WoL's tragic backstory is going to be running it into the ground hard. Especially since it will be doubling back on the last time they got past it, which was already doubling back on the time before that that they got past it. On the other hand, I've never touched WAR simply because the whole BALL OF FLAMING RAGE AND ANGER thing doesn't fit with the mental image I have of my character, so I'm probably being a bit hypocritical. Anyways, lore nerdery aside, just asking that anyone who's interested in bad casual raiding send me a message via Discord, since I don't have PMs. Estelle Auberlaint, Smug Elezen#4324. In-game will work too (just Estelle Auberlaint there), but I tend to keep very late hours so that might be hit and miss. I'll probably make a thread on the offsite too if needed. Solo Wing Pixy fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 09:51
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That's why they give you dialogue choices, to give yourself your own characterization. Choosing to be a DRK is a choice, also
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Oct 23, 2017 09:52
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drat I guess I can't get mad about Heavenward spoilers but I didn't know about Minfilia 
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Oct 23, 2017 09:59
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A. Beaverhausen posted:drat I guess I can't get mad about Heavenward spoilers but I didn't know about Minfilia Yeah, I'll loop back and mark those out. Sorry, it seemed a bit pointless with them sitting in plain text right above, but eh. Also, the stuff with Minfilia was way back in 2.55, the banquet and such. She's not necessarily dead, but, well, it's complicated.
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Oct 23, 2017 10:15
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Josuke Higashikata posted:The person who says the quests that give your character a defined characterisation are bad is correct. Don't write a game built purely on a player avatar and then define their reactions, thoughts and feelings like the game constantly does with Haurchefaunt in general. There's room for "I miss Haurchefaunt a lot, he was my close friend" and "It sucks he's dead, but I wasn't that close to him" but not pushing one of those exclusively. Made me cringe in the latest patch when Fordola does her mind reading on you and it shows you infront of Faunty's grave. I don't remember ever going there, where it is and I sure as hell don't give a sheeit. You go there as a part of a quest. Like that's a replay of a cutscene you've watched, you know when you visit the gravesite of the guy who died to save you. That's why he matters. Not because of his gay love for you, but because he loving stood there with his shield to protect you from a backstabbing spear thrown by a primal. The fact that he has a crush on you isn't why visiting his grave is important. He loving died for you. You got the shield as a reward and maybe the painting as well. HW spoilers in this video https://youtu.be/WMyIv_8wMSk?t=123 Edit: I feel like this is one of the biggest  posts I've ever made, but way to miss the whole point of why Haurchefaunt was important.
Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Oct 23, 2017 |
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Oct 23, 2017 10:35
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Solo Wing Pixy posted:Yeah, I'll loop back and mark those out. Sorry, it seemed a bit pointless with them sitting in plain text right above, but eh. Oh ok, that's the last I saw of her so far.
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Oct 23, 2017 10:42
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Saucer Crab posted:DRK 30-50 is really bad and dumb and forces a ton of characterization upon the WoL that the rest of the game wisely avoids doing. The 50-60 questline is much better and actually tells a nice little story and is one of the better HW ones. I haven't touched DRK in SB but since everyone keeps saying it follows from 30-50 I imagine it has to be bad as well. You are entitles to your opinions. I am also entitled to my opinion that your are wrong and bad.
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Oct 23, 2017 11:54
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Mr. Nice! posted:You go there as a part of a quest. Lots of people have died for you in this game. You don't know their names or mourn them to the same degree. People more recently have died for the Warrior of Light. It doesn't get into the same hamfisted hero worship for anyone but him. There wasn't any of this for Gosetsu, who the WoL should have no idea is actually alive. It goes beyond the scope of the the character when it defines what your reaction to events are so strictly and attached presumptions of a players feelings towards a character is terrible, inconsistent writing. The game's more than happy to let you go your own way about things but all WoL's are obsessed with the fact Hboy died. To drag it out far and beyond its original scope is crap.
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Oct 23, 2017 13:08
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Josuke Higashikata posted:The person who says the quests that give your character a defined characterisation are bad is correct. Don't write a game built purely on a player avatar and then define their reactions, thoughts and feelings like the game constantly does with Haurchefaunt in general. There's room for "I miss Haurchefaunt a lot, he was my close friend" and "It sucks he's dead, but I wasn't that close to him" but not pushing one of those exclusively. Made me cringe in the latest patch when Fordola does her mind reading on you and it shows you infront of Faunty's grave. I don't remember ever going there, where it is and I sure as hell don't give a sheeit. Everyone visits his grave at least once as part of MSQ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZNm1pF-kbs&t=19772s
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Oct 23, 2017 13:14
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Lots of people have died for you in this game. You don't know their names or mourn them to the same degree. People more recently have died for the Warrior of Light. It doesn't get into the same hamfisted hero worship for anyone but him. There wasn't any of this for Gosetsu, who the WoL should have no idea is actually alive. It's possible that the game devs picked up on how popular Haurchefant was in the fanbase and injected him into most of the msq stuff. I can definitely picture them thinking "we need to have the wol remember a dead friend here who should we pick? let's go with the popular dude". Actually (DRK SB quests spoilers), when SB dropped, I was doing the DRK quests and remember some people predicting that the 70 quest would involve Haurchefant which I think would have been a really bad idea for several reasons and I don't even hate the character all that much. I'm really glad they didn't go that route, not that they had any reason to.
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Oct 23, 2017 13:44
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For all the talk of lore, I think it's interesting that the thread argued over whether or not the WoL solos the primals in storyline and the current MSQ answers that question straight up. No, you don't. You couldn't. I bet a lot of immersion got bonkered. I'm also glad there's none of the worship for Gosetsu, because that time you're alone with him at the Steppe sucks. He's such a massive rear end in a top hat. You can say it's terrible writing (even if I don't agree) but I don't think you can say it's inconsistent. Especially when one of your strikes against the Haurchefaunt stuff is that it keeps coming up.
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Oct 23, 2017 13:48
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I mean we haven't gone back to see Hien so there isn't going to be a lot of mourning over things in that half of the storyline yet. The big deal for Ala Mhigo seems to be the 9-11 towers thing where Fordola murdered foe/ally alike which they brought up already and will probably continue to bring up rather than any individual deaths. RE: WoL soloing primals we already know that's not the case because there's multiple points where Alphi or Krile tell you to go get a pack of your adventurer buddies to deal with them.
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Oct 23, 2017 14:50
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SonicRulez posted:For all the talk of lore, I think it's interesting that the thread argued over whether or not the WoL solos the primals in storyline and the current MSQ answers that question straight up. No, you don't. You couldn't. I bet a lot of immersion got bonkered. Not necessarily. Many of the Primal fights imply the WoL solo'd them. Some of them do not. All the MSQ in this patch indicates is that you cannot effectively solo Lakshmi while also protecting a poo poo load of normal people from getting tempered. This has no bearing on whether or not you solo Primals in general.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:12
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mistaya posted:I mean we haven't gone back to see Hien so there isn't going to be a lot of mourning over things in that half of the storyline yet. People were arguing if that was just breaking the fourth wall because those references aren't in the other languages, not to dredge that back up.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:17
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So as I level up DRK, my current dps rotation has pretty much been Soul Eater combo, using Dark Arts on soul eater and using DA on syphon strike when I have blood weapon active. How much does this rotation change with the 60-70 skills? It looks like working in Grit toggling with bloodspiller might make an affect on my rotations but I have no idea how actually useful that skill is over quietus or blackest night in terms of effective use of blood gauge.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:17
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Do you actually need to toggle Grit for Bloodspiller? I know it does more potency but it seems like a lot of trouble for one button, especially considering that the potency is still going to be lowered from the Grit penalty.Luna Was Here posted:So as I level up DRK, my current dps rotation has pretty much been Soul Eater combo, using Dark Arts on soul eater and using DA on syphon strike when I have blood weapon active. How much does this rotation change with the 60-70 skills? It looks like working in Grit toggling with bloodspiller might make an affect on my rotations but I have no idea how actually useful that skill is over quietus or blackest night in terms of effective use of blood gauge. Once you get Bloodspiller you'll be using that single-target whenever you're not in a position to use Delirium, and TBN doesn't cost Blood, just MP.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:18
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Speaking of "forcing characterization on the WoL", anyone got that one OF post of the guy complaining about their character being characterized when there was some cutscene where a guy goes "C'mere and check out these beauties!" and he's ogling those twin miqo'te in Limsa and the person complains "I'm a female character and she isn't a lesbian so why would she want to check out women?"
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Oct 23, 2017 15:21
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Spoilers mostly since a few in the thread are still working on DRK and/or HW right now. I'm not sure that giving characterization to one aspect of your subconscious counts as the game defining WoL's personality. As for individual character relationships, I don't mind Haurchefant being a major character memory. He wasn't an NPC out of nowhere after all, the WoL has known him for almost as long as the Scions and his aid was given completely out of goodwill and friendship rather than having that element of "hey, this catgirl can help us do our job". He also died in a pretty dramatic and personal way regardless of whether or not you considered him to be Best Elfbro. That said, I agree that we're about at our narrative limit for using Haurchy to provoke feels in cutscenes so I'm glad he isn't directly summoned in the 70 DRK quest.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:25
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Arist posted:Do you actually need to toggle Grit for Bloodspiller? I know it does more potency but it seems like a lot of trouble for one button, especially considering that the potency is still going to be lowered from the Grit penalty. Looking up some posts and doing some quick math it seems like it's probably not worth it to switch to Grit just for Bloodspiller, but I've been wrong before.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:27
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Leveling 60-70 DRK is kind of wonky because Blackest Night is absolutely key to their combo point generation and you don't get it until 70. (You should make a macro to cast it on your MT if you're OT'ing too, gets you free blood points whenever there's a tankbuster.) Grit being on the GCD says to me that it can't possibly be worth casting it to boost Bloodspiller, I could just be a bad though!
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Oct 23, 2017 15:32
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I haven't ran the numbers but I just kind of assumed the potency penalty from grit + MP cost of grit + loss of a GCD makes it not even close to worth it. Even if it was, toggling grit is just too much of a hassle.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:38
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I haven't really looked at the numbers since they changed a while back, but it looks like Bloodspiller does less damage in Grit than out of it at the moment? DA Potency: 540 Effective DA+Grit Potency: 650 * 80% = 520 So unless I'm missing something, there's absolutely no point in switching to Grit for it.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:41
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Even ignoring the GCD cost, which is massive on its own, Bloodspiller's Grit + Dark Arts potency is 650, and its normal Dark Arts potency is 540. 80% of 650 is 520, which means it seems like Bloodspiller does more damage out of Grit unless I'm missing something. e: beaten with the exact same post
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Oct 23, 2017 15:41
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Haruchefaunt is someone important to the WoL regardless of their choices because he's one of the longest standing and most committed allies the WoL has as well as THE person who believes in the heroic nature of the WoL more than anyone else. His death is important like all scions death are, just him more so because one of the few that aided you at your lowest (Twice now, once in 2.0 and then again in 2.5). Haruchefaunt was someone the WoL could depend on and you were actively living with and helping out his family for the whole story and he died directly protecting you and right in front of your eyes so you had to carry his body back to his ancestral home. Complaining that they make the WoL care about any one thing or character because it cuts off player choice is kind of ludicrous since the WoL carrying about anything is dependent on the writers and quest designers adding things into the game. Hell, the idea that the WoL might just want to piss off to wherever to get away from it all is actually something that gets brought up in a way in the DRK quest.
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Oct 23, 2017 15:47
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Arist posted:Do you actually need to toggle Grit for Bloodspiller? I know it does more potency but it seems like a lot of trouble for one button, especially considering that the potency is still going to be lowered from the Grit penalty. Oh d'oh, I forgot that the Grit penalty applied to the increased potency amount. Also didn't see that TBN doesn't cost blood gauge, I misread the wiki
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Oct 23, 2017 15:48
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Why the gently caress did hot shot of all things make it onto the job gauge, but not like whether your turret is up/can be placed again after exploding did not
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Oct 23, 2017 15:57
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