Freezer posted:

Kyiv might fall but they can always fly their Command Center to a corner of the map and force a draw.

eonwe posted:

hey man I forget my meds sometimes too

Son of Man posted:

I thought putin said he would consider bank sanctions an act of war but he hasn't done jack poo poo about it

is he some kind of pussy or what

Ytlaya posted:

That there's no real side worth "rooting for" here because neither organized power meaningfully represents "the people" and both are horrible. And that people shouldn't be materially supporting the Ukraine military or otherwise providing war materials, because all those weapons are going to be used in really bad ways (or more accurately, they already are).

Russia stll holds responsibility for their actions because of the immense harm resulting from them*, but I don't really give a poo poo about "sovereignty" in this context. If Russia had somehow managed to pull off a (relatively, outside of some political and military leadership) bloodless coup, I wouldn't really care much and would probably consider it a marginal improvement over the status quo (basically like undoing the results of Euromaidan). So I think that Russia's actions are bad because they involve a war that is killing/maiming many civilians, but not because of anything having to do with "national sovereignty" (since I don't really care about the "sovereignty" of ultranationalists).

* Responsibility at least equally shared with NATO states

Runaktla posted:

Being West aligned is definitely better than Russia aligned. it just takes time for the old Soviet soul crushing corruption to ease and be replaced with less corruption.

Runaktla posted:

Being West aligned is definitely better than Russia aligned. it just takes time for the old Soviet soul crushing corruption to ease and be replaced with less corruption.

Runaktla posted:

Being West aligned is definitely better than Russia aligned. it just takes time for the old Soviet soul crushing corruption to ease and be replaced with less corruption.

Ytlaya posted:

That there's no real side worth "rooting for" here because neither organized power meaningfully represents "the people" and both are horrible. And that people shouldn't be materially supporting the Ukraine military or otherwise providing war materials, because all those weapons are going to be used in really bad ways (or more accurately, they already are).

Russia stll holds responsibility for their actions because of the immense harm resulting from them*, but I don't really give a poo poo about "sovereignty" in this context. If Russia had somehow managed to pull off a (relatively, outside of some political and military leadership) bloodless coup, I wouldn't really care much and would probably consider it a marginal improvement over the status quo (basically like undoing the results of Euromaidan). So I think that Russia's actions are bad because they involve a war that is killing/maiming many civilians, but not because of anything having to do with "national sovereignty" (since I don't really care about the "sovereignty" of ultranationalists).

* Responsibility at least equally shared with NATO states

Runaktla posted:

Being West aligned is definitely better than Russia aligned. it just takes time for the old Soviet soul crushing corruption to ease and be replaced with less corruption.

HiroProtagonist posted:

Runaktla posted:

Being West aligned is definitely better than Russia aligned. it just takes time for the old Soviet soul crushing corruption to ease and be replaced with less corruption.

Cpt_Obvious posted:

The Ukrainian people are poorer than the Russian people.

HiroProtagonist posted:

Runaktla posted:

Lots of folks that only know how to shitpost and give the standard hot takes up in here.

Cpt_Obvious posted:

The Ukrainian people are poorer than the Russian people.

Runaktla posted:

There’s a lot of corruption to get rid of and the West’s hands aren’t clean but it’s getting better.

The younger generations don’t all see things as an endless corruption-driven hellhole. Getting back in bed with Russia is only going to swing it back in that direction.

Runaktla posted:

There’s a lot of corruption to get rid of and the West’s hands aren’t clean but it’s getting better.

HallelujahLee posted:

i heard the ghost of kiev purged all corruption

quote:

The Saudis have signaled that their relationship with Washington has deteriorated under the Biden administration, and they want more support for their intervention in Yemen’s civil war, help with their own civilian nuclear program as Iran’s moves ahead, and legal immunity for Prince Mohammed in the U.S., Saudi officials said. The crown prince faces multiple lawsuits in the U.S., including over the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in 2018.

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Like, did you not see the West murder millions of people in the middle east over the past 20 years?

Karl Barks posted:

If Venezuela goes to the US and Saudi Arabia goes to Russia, a bunch of cspam brains are going to absolutely shatter

Tankbuster posted:

yeah thats why he is a ghost.

Karl Barks posted:

Sovereignty matters in the context of Ukraine not simply being a puppet of either NATO or Russia, unless you think that is some kind of inevitability - I don't. I'm not sure how Ukraine is ultranationalist given it's made no claim over other countries, and actually stands to lose pretty big chunks to the actual ultranationalist party in this conflict.

I'm not defending the many terrible elements of the Ukrainian political scene here, I actually think Russia's actions have bolstered the nationalists in Ukraine more than anything. It's all poo poo.

Tankbuster posted:

No they just go to more advanced countries instead.

Runaktla posted:

yea the west can be cocksuckers, doesn’t make what I’ve said less true

Cpt_Obvious posted:

The West filled the Ukrainian government and military full of Nazis.

Karl Barks posted:

The Russian Empire's history is less bad than Ukraine's history, therefore...???

Runaktla posted:

They elected a Jewish president. I’m not saying there are no Nazis but like how much power do they have? What a lovely fallback argument.