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It doesn't help that horror games are often some of the mechanically simplest games out there, which makes them appealing to inexperienced developers. No need to put in rpg mechanics or combat encounters or items or balancing, if the sprite touches the black stuff then health goes to zero, ez pz. If you're really spicy put in a monster that paths directly to the player in all circumstances. It makes for very boring, frustrating games, but it is technically a completed game in the genre.
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Feb 8, 2021 17:54
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the most impactful horror game i've played in the last 5(?) years is still a 30-minute PSX-quality walking sim about a hungry house
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Feb 8, 2021 17:58
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:I absolutely love garbage horror games, the only caveat is they can't be boring. The fact that I'll never be able to play Michigan: Report From Hell greatly pains me. You're not missing much tbh
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Feb 8, 2021 18:03
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Anatomy is good.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:06
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CuddleCryptid posted:It doesn't help that horror games are often some of the mechanically simplest games out there, which makes them appealing to inexperienced developers. No need to put in rpg mechanics or combat encounters or items or balancing, if the sprite touches the black stuff then health goes to zero, ez pz. If you're really spicy put in a monster that paths directly to the player in all circumstances. It makes for very boring, frustrating games, but it is technically a completed game in the genre. Horror won't stop being the dumping ground for every freshly-baked wannabe game developer's zero budget project unless we all start to be a bit more demanding that horror games actually be decent games in addition to just being diffusely 'horror', I think.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:09
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The most effective horror moment I've ever experienced in a video game was when my friend convinced me to try Apex Legends and I was exposed to the Battle Passes for the first time. You really get overcome with all kinds of existential emotions once you realize that our society made pay2grind a viable business model.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:09
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Cardiovorax posted:I think this would be far less common if horror game fans hadn't demonstrated over the last few years that they're willing to hold horror games to basically no kind of standard at all. "This game has basically no gameplay, but I thought it was spooky and meaningful and that makes it a good horror game" isn't how it should work, but in practical terms, it pretty much does. At best, that makes it a good horror story, but that's different from being a good horror game, in the same way that a narrated text scroll isn't a good horror movie even if technically moves and you watch it on a screen. What I am hearing is that we need to round up anyone who streamed the slender game and melt down their capture cards to make dental implants
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Feb 8, 2021 18:11
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Supermassive Games has released two games in a row that have the exact same story and gameplay and both somehow are fairly critically acclaimed, which is very funny.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:13
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CuddleCryptid posted:What I am hearing is that we need to round up anyone who streamed the slender game and melt down their capture cards to make dental implants
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Feb 8, 2021 18:20
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horror has always been a weird genre - across all media, not just games - because it's defined by the sensation it evokes rather than the trappings of the material itself. there's certain signifiers to fantasy or sci-fi or romance which define works in that genre as such, but horror can be any or none of those things so long as it's spooky. and for games that applies to the mechanics as well, so you can have a game like Anatomy where you plod up and down staircases listening to a crackly voice for less than an hour and it still succeeds wildly as horror because it makes you afraid to stay in your bedroom with the lights out
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Feb 8, 2021 18:24
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It's also a bit interesting how expensive horror games can be. I mean I guess it's cause of the niche and there's only so many copies and I assume horror fans will hold on to their copies. But look up prices for ps3 silent hill games, rule of rose or kuon.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:25
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Yeah, that's because those old PSX/PS2 games were already niche products with small print runs back in the day, so they've become collector's items more than something that people really play. It's kind of sad because Kuon is actually a pretty good game. It's basically Magical Kaidan Resident Evil.Oxxidation posted:there's certain signifiers to fantasy or sci-fi or romance which define works in that genre as such, but horror can be any or none of those things so long as it's spooky.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:35
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Cardiovorax posted:Horror won't stop being the dumping ground for every freshly-baked wannabe game developer's zero budget project unless we all start to be a bit more demanding that horror games actually be decent games in addition to just being diffusely 'horror', I think. A funny take because horror is the dumping ground for every freshly-baked wannabe artist, it's only in the past 10 years that video games caught up to that. Horror is trash, insert "always has been" meme, and that's why it's great. e: Horror is the most freeing of genres because it works in literally any scenario. Night of the Living Dead would be the exact same story if it was strangers trapped inside during a storm but with zombies you multiply the stakes tenfold and can make commentary about who the true monsters are *points to self* al-azad fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 18:37
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Cardiovorax posted:Yeah, that's because those old PSX/PS2 games were already niche products with small print runs back in the day, so they've become collector's items more than something that people really play. It's kind of sad because Kuon is actually a pretty good game. It's basically Magical Kaidan Resident Evil. Yeah I mean I think you can get away with printing ps1/ps2 games in the tens of thousands while today you'll probably be a digital release only, or partner with something like limited run games where once your preorders sell it it becomes a $100+ game anyway (but this is happening with indies too) They almost never print games these days in such short supply (if they ever get pressed to disc) and there's always more new fans coming on the scene.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:44
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al-azad posted:A funny take because horror is the dumping ground for every freshly-baked wannabe artist, it's only in the past 10 years that video games caught up to that.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:45
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:I absolutely love garbage horror games, the only caveat is they can't be boring. The fact that I'll never be able to play Michigan: Report From Hell greatly pains me. Does it not emulate?
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Feb 8, 2021 18:45
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Selling Rule of Rose a couple months ago payed all my bills lolLen posted:Does it not emulate? Enemabag Jones fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 18:45
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Len posted:Does it not emulate?
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Feb 8, 2021 18:47
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Cardiovorax posted:It does! Here's a guide on how to make it run decently: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GDJlexFxJ_mBZwK6Qi-x7CRclKHdPXwSDjHWeFXvZ4w/edit
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Feb 8, 2021 18:50
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Cardiovorax posted:That's not wrong, but I wouldn't really call it a good thing, either. Nah, it's great. There's need to be a testing ground for expression and horror serves as a blank slate that can slot into anything. Just ask the guy who directed Until Dawn, he was trying to make wendigos work for 15 years. I would appreciate if it wasn't memed to the point where you get completely insincere projects that exist only to get a reaction but that just means horror games have reached their postmodern period of art.
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Feb 8, 2021 18:52
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I think there is an upside to the wannabe artist turn & burn trash aspect of indie horror game development, honestly, it's just that the barrier to entry has only been particularly low for a few years. Admittedly there'll still be a landfill worth of games (and developers) that will never amount to anything and are only there to grab whatever sales or attention they can, but if you have the ability for a quick turnaround on development and a committed developer, it can translate into some pretty rapid improvement in what they put out. I can't think of a ton of developers that really highlight what I'm talking about, but the one that springs to mind is Puppet Combo. He's (I assume it's still mostly one guy) got a very particular style and definitely has a type of game he's trying to make, but a lot of his efforts have been pretty hit or miss, until recently. Murder House isn't going to be for everyone but if you like that style of slasher-throwback horror, it's really pretty good. And he's put out a huge number of (generally short) games in the last however many years, and you can see how his games have improved and become more sophisticated over time. It's just a guess and I have no real evidence to point to on this account, but I think that sort of trend will become a lot more common-- people being less precious about making a horror video game "masterpiece" and instead just putting out a ton of smaller, fairly complete games and improving every time they do.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:12
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al-azad posted:Nah, it's great. There's need to be a testing ground for expression and horror serves as a blank slate that can slot into anything. Just ask the guy who directed Until Dawn, he was trying to make wendigos work for 15 years. Yeah, experimental stuff is extremely important, even if the quality isn't super up to snuff. Tons of RPGmaker games pushed entire new genres just by the ideas that they had but couldn't flesh out. Hell, no one expected Five Nights at Freddie's to explode the way that it did, least of all its developer, and that game was basically just 20 still frames and a few animations. Yume Niki was confusing and hard to play but launched many spiritual sequels, including the Lisa series. And that isn't even including point and click or visual novels. It's hard because a lot of really good horror games are such a waste when it comes to low level mechanics, but work just fine otherwise. The Cat Lady springs to mind, which was an amazing game with great story and art and a genuine insight into mental illness, and also it had mechanics so clunky that you could hear the gears turning as you opened a door.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:12
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I like when horror games don't feel the need to be misery porn because goddamn are there some horror games that just lean way too far into the misery porn
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Feb 8, 2021 19:22
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FirstAidKite posted:I like when horror games don't feel the need to be misery porn because goddamn are there some horror games that just lean way too far into the misery porn Imo any horror game that ends with the protagonist committing suicide does themselves a disservice. Yes it might be realistic but it is cheap and boring, not to mention dangerous if you are trying to paint a picture of what people actually act like Come on folks, be more like We Know The Devil, make it so your abused teen protagonists turn into a queer poly monstrosity that takes over a religious camp and starts hanging with the devil who is a much cooler dude.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:29
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FirstAidKite posted:I like when horror games don't feel the need to be misery porn because goddamn are there some horror games that just lean way too far into the misery porn Real hard agree. I absolutely hated the first episode of Visage because it didn't even try to have a personality beyond "wow, hosed up, huh?" The second was a massive improvement just because it stopped taking itself so deadly serious and had some lines that aren't just "mom screams because kid dead." Like, At Dead of Night manages to be scary as hell without resorting to shock value, but creating tension actually requires work as opposed to starting with an edgy subject and writing your plot around that Enemabag Jones fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 19:33
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FirstAidKite posted:I like when horror games don't feel the need to be misery porn because goddamn are there some horror games that just lean way too far into the misery porn  I am so sick of that trend. The whole "it's not artistic unless it's depressing" attitude needs to die a quick and merciful death already.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:36
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I guess it's a bad time for me to recommend people play Omori again huh
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Feb 8, 2021 19:39
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Blockhouse posted:I guess it's a bad time for me to recommend people play Omori again huh Nah, I've played an hour of it and I can't see how something unexpected and morbid could happen in such a colorful game. That would be way too poignant.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:47
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That's my one exception, I will accept misery porn as long as it comes in a late twist to an otherwise cute or normal game. It's cheap, but it's exactly the kind of cheap I enjoy.
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Feb 8, 2021 19:54
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al-azad posted:and can make commentary about who the true monsters are *points to self* No that's the zombies.
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Feb 8, 2021 20:25
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It's the Bad Dad. It's the Bad Dad Zombie.
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Feb 8, 2021 20:28
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CuddleCryptid posted:Nah, I've played an hour of it and I can't see how something unexpected and morbid could happen in such a colorful game. That would be way too poignant. Yeah it'd be a real shame if the entire game was a build up to a last hour where it ties you to a wall and punches you in the gut over and over again.
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Feb 8, 2021 21:39
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Cardiovorax posted:Bugsnax is a game about the horror of realizing that you really are what you eat. 
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Feb 8, 2021 21:52
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as a developer of lovely little indie games myself, the tendency to dump armies of small games over one big game may be a money/time/commitment thing success in the indie games biz can be a gamble; why spend five years working on some personal masterpiece that might not sell, when something like Flappy Birds or Slender might make a bajillion dollars with a fifth of the effort? The obvious response is to make a good horror game for the passion of it, but making a game takes time and people gotta eat. Game Developer A is either working a job-job and making games in their spare time, which multiples how long it takes to make ANY game but especially a good one... or they're making games to pay bills in which case they can't afford to chug away at something great, they just need to make -something- good games are a commitment, a commitment with a lot of unknown factors involved and then your ambitions clash with the nature of the industry, your natural anxiety cascades into an overpowering choice paralysis and instead of making a huge good game or a bunch of shovelware you instead just don't do anything and feel like garbage edit: that said screamer streamers are what helped make it profitable in the current era, and if not for them the sort of people cashing in on it would instead be making mobile games, battle royales, or roblox merch I dunno Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 22:12
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As a developer of lovely little indie games as well there are three other factors that make it a self fulfilling prophecy: horror and visual novel are the most popular tags on indie platforms which are very popular with the proliferation of game jams that occur over 1-4 week turn outs which drives content creators because the youtube algorithm heavily favors 10+ minute videos with high audience participation. Puppet Combo and Dread X (and Sokpop although they're not horror) have discovered the sweet spot of rapid fire iteration but in PC's case he has basically built a library of assets over 10 years and Dread X is doing Weird Tales anthologies. e: I'm also strongly of the opinion that good horror should last 90 minutes, 3 hours max. al-azad fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Feb 8, 2021 |
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Feb 8, 2021 22:23
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^^ also all of this basically it's a perfect storm for a poo poo ton of (let's be generous) less than optimally designed games, many by amateurs (which is neat) and many by folks that dream of both making games and making money and that, well, that's capitalism baby
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Feb 8, 2021 22:40
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Indie game horror's the same as indie film horror (or for that matter, indie horror fiction) - nobody's laboring under the pretense that they're making great art, or even good art that people will enjoy. It's the spirit of the thing. It's just when a hack like Uwe Boll or Bloober Team starts getting attention, that's when the charm wears off.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:03
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Honestly, I don't expect horror games to be great art, or even art at all. I just want them to either start putting in the effort and make them actually games or admit that they can't hack it and go back to writing creepypasta.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:08
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I forgot Team Bloobs were the ones who did Layers of Fear, no wonder everyone's hating on them. That was such an interesting core mechanics concept that they seemed invested in making as bland and tedious as possible.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:10
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I like Layers of Fear.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:01
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