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SonicRulez posted:Also, are tanks the only ones that can mark enemies with the little numbers or can everyone do that? One thing to keep in mind is that while marking enemies can be useful at low levels, at some point the tank needs to be holding threat on everything because classes start actually getting good at AoE, and saying 'you must only attack this one enemy in this group of five' is a good way to make your DPS hate you. Also, am I the only one that keeps literally every skill on their hotbar, including the useless ones like Lethargy and Surecast? I have a high enough resolution monitor that it doesn't get in the way, but I have four hotbars that are basically completely full. vOv fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 17, 2016 |
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Jan 17, 2016 22:05
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poptart_fairy posted:Grouped up with someone who was "new" at tanking and I had to slowly begin whittling down the abilities I was using as he kept losing aggro incredibly quickly, and wasn't able to maintain it for more than a couple of seconds at a time. It got to the point where auto-attack and mutilate were all it took. If you're in that kind of situation, you're better off just doing full dps and tanking yourself. vOv posted:One thing to keep in mind is that while marking enemies can be useful at low levels, at some point the tank needs to be holding threat on everything because classes start actually getting good at AoE, and saying 'you must only attack this one enemy in this group of five' is a good way to make your DPS hate you. Whenever I see a tank throw up kill order markers, I just go balls to the wall on AOE damage. Especially if it's a warrior, because holy poo poo you have overpower why are you not overpowering vOv posted:Also, am I the only one that keeps literally every skill on their hotbar, including the useless ones like Lethargy and Surecast? I have a high enough resolution monitor that it doesn't get in the way, but I have four hotbars that are basically completely full. Surecast is absolutely not useless. Also,  The beginner's hall can't come soon enough.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:22
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Kibner posted:For example, we had a goon run last night in sastash with a white mage, scholar, black mage, and thaumaturge. All cloth classes and the only ones casting healing were the white mage and the fairie pet of the scholar. so was the thaumaturge (me)
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Jan 17, 2016 22:24
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poptart_fairy posted:I'll assume it's gear as I don't like to think people are bad straight off, but jesus christ. Some people really are that bad, but most people will take a kind suggestion. I had a dragoon in level 50 roulette yesterday that wasn't doing any aoe. Before another pull I suggested that they HT, ring of thorns if they combo, and then doom spike until HT is about to fall off. They had never realized they even had doom spike. I told them where it was in the action tab, they put it on a hotbar, and we kept chugging without problem. As long as you're not being a dickbag, 90% of the people will respond positively to a suggestion and do things to play better.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:29
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Fister Roboto posted:
Short of locking every player in there and forcing them to push buttons correctly before they can continue playing the game, I doubt the beginner's hall is going to have much of an impact.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:39
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Summoner looks neat. I see that you can only have minis of 3 of the primals. Will that class eventually get skills patched in for more as more primals enter the lore or is there a lore reason why they can't? I get why they can't summon the true big beasties, but I would think that they could get like Leviathan and Ramuh Egis.Fister Roboto posted:Also, I'll ask a stupid question. Is Fire III....not better than Fire II?
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Jan 17, 2016 22:47
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SonicRulez posted:I'll ask a stupid question. Is Fire III....not better than Fire II? It can be. What it's not better than is Fire I.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:50
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SonicRulez posted:I'll ask a stupid question. Is Fire III....not better than Fire II? Fire 3 and Fire 2 do different things: the former is single target and the latter is AOE. And to answer your followup question, Fire 3 is NOT better than Fire 1. They're actually the same DPS, but Fire 3 has a longer cast time and a higher MP cost, and Fire 1 has a chance to make your next Fire 3 free and instant, so you actually end up casting Fire 1 more than anything else. The proper black mage rotation isn't very intuitive, especially if you're more familiar with literally every other Final Fantasy game.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:54
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It's the same with Cure I, II and III for WHM. Just because you get something early doesn't mean it's weaker or obsolete. Sometimes I think it would be better to give skills like that different names.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:58
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Fire 2 should definitely be changed to Fira, and Cure 3 to Cura.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:02
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I'm still a bit confused as to why they went with the FF7 and below nomenclature, when Fire/Fira/Firaga/Firaja has been standard to the series since FF8 in NA. AFAIK they already are -ra/-ga/-ja in Japanese, since those have always been the spell names there.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:06
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Well yeah, that or making them actually better. Because I can say right now that if I were a caster, I would think "Well 3 must be better than 1" just because that's the way every other Final Fantasy works. Lucy Heartfilia posted:Just because you get something early doesn't mean it's weaker or obsolete. This is really good to know.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:06
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:I'm still a bit confused as to why they went with the FF7 and below nomenclature, when Fire/Fira/Firaga/Firaja has been standard to the series since FF8 in NA. AFAIK they already are -ra/-ga/-ja in Japanese, since those have always been the spell names there. They had some reason they trotted out at some point that had me scratching my head, but I still think the AoE abilities should be differentiated. Maybe -ga for the AoEs like FFXI did it, perhaps.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:09
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For anyone interested, I am seeing a big performance improvement going from Windows 7 to 10. Load times are much, much better and I don't have to change the priority in the task manager to get it to run. Characters and npcs also load faster.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:25
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quote:I've been kicked a few times for using logic... Most recent one was the last time I did an Expert Duty Roulette about 2-3 weeks ago (which I haven't done another one since) and I landed in the Arbortorium (or whatever it's called with the Belladonna) and we start fighting the start of the dungeon, after the first mega pull, I get questioned by the tank why I have a piece of Vitality Jewelry on my BLM, in which I reply that I have it on so it doesn't hinder my iLvl but also cause I can only have 1 BLM Esoterics Ring, why not get something to offer more health/defence in case something goes horrifically wrong and that way I can hold out a little bit longer. We then continue through to the first boss and we kill it and the loot comes up, I pass like always, then run to the safe spot before the next mobs. The suddenly I get the message that I've been kicked... I was very confused and have given up on duty roulette a since because this isn't the first time this has happened. Emphasis mine.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:30
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I did an AV with a tank so bad the other day that a regen pulled the first boss. Worth eating the cool down on that one.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:42
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lokipunk posted:I did an AV with a tank so bad the other day that a regen pulled the first boss. Worth eating the cool down on that one. Don't put regen on the tank before a pull.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:47
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Fister Roboto posted:Don't put regen on the tank before a pull. This was a good 5 count into the fight. Guy had aggro problems from the start.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:52
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Fister Roboto posted:Always. I would also give the reverse tip to a DPS: pulling is the tank's job. Not only for the whole flow and control of battle and mob positioning being the tank responsibility in the first place (whether or not you feel they're doing that fast enough for your taste), but whoever pulls has automatic aggro on everything else in the pull too, so instead of them beelining conveniently to the tank to be tagged with a flash or whatever, they'll beeline inconveniently to you and make it harder for the tank to pick up. Some, like Fister Roboto advocates, will be chill and shrug and roll with it if you pull stuff. (And almost all of them will roll with it if it's clear you just accidentally backed up too far and aggro'd stuff.) Some, however, will throw a poo poo fit and stop to argue. Should they? No, perhaps not. But there's a decent risk of it, and the important takeaway I want to point out is that whatever handful of seconds you save by pulling early, will probably be lost in the ensuing chaos of mobs running around uncontrolled (this is even more true in 8- or 24-player content, congratulations on loving up the opening rotation for every single other DPS who's present, especially melee), and will definitely be lost if it ends up with a verbal slap fight. Cool your god drat heels, and if you want to be in charge of pulling then change job to PLD, WAR, or DRK and do it properly. Or if the tank really is so very egregiously slow that you're better off having you as a DPS pull than having nobody pull at all, then pretend you're a tank for the whole time (and not just the single act of pulling) and act accordingly - grab the pack, maintain aggro on all of them (even if not keeping it off the other DPS, at least keep it off the healer), keep them loving still as best you can, and make yourself as unsquishy as possible via cooldowns. Don't simply shoot something and then passive aggressively whine that the tank hasn't gotten them off you. Vil fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 00:08
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I feel you. It was definitely a mistake when I ran too far ahead. I didn't really get the concept of a tank pulling all the aggro and letting the DPS go to work until I got my rear end kicked. The tank I ran with was chill about it. I just got a quick "Oh, you're new. Tip: Don't do that poo poo." He also called the strategy for the boss which I'm cool with. I don't mind just followin orders until I know what I"m doing.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:20
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Exception: If the scholar has just spread a crit adloquium with Deployment Tactics and the tanks are all standing around with their thumb up their rear end, I will pull the boss with no apologies.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:26
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That rant wasn't really directed at you. Like the tank you got, my reaction would have been more "oh, they're new, give them a heads-up that it's a bad idea to do that". It's more directed at self-entitled knowitall DPS who want to get to call the shots about pulls and pacing like a tank, but not deal with the responsibilities that come with the tank role. (Or else they'd be, ya know, actually playing a tank.) I mean, personally I'm comfortable/experienced enough tanking that I go at a good enough pace that I can't remember the last time a DPS felt the need to pull for me. But I've seen many other groups when I'm not tanking, that things went to poo poo because a DPS tried to pull and the tank was having none of that. Yeah, it's frustrating if you're, say, in leveling roulette to get experience on a non-tank (which is a perfectly good reason to Not Be Tanking Yourself per above advice) and you get a lovely tank (or healer, or DPS) and you wish you could take over from them. But I think part of the reason leveling roulette in particular gives such a mountain of exp is because it's 100% random who you group with (you can't full or partial group for that roulette, you have to queue solo). And to some degree it's compensation for the fact that you'll inevitably, sooner or later, get someone terrible who doesn't improve with advice. The big experience reward you get is in some ways the reward for accepting and rolling with that risk.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:34
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:I'm still a bit confused as to why they went with the FF7 and below nomenclature, when Fire/Fira/Firaga/Firaja has been standard to the series since FF8 in NA. AFAIK they already are -ra/-ga/-ja in Japanese, since those have always been the spell names there. Huh, so what do they call things like Stoneskin II/Medica II/Malefic II? I could get behind Medicara or Malefica, but Stoneskina just sounds weird.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:38
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ApplesandOranges posted:but Stoneskina just sounds weird. Stone Cold Skinna
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Jan 18, 2016 00:41
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I never use fire 2. The single target damage of fire 1 goes so much farther than the sliver fire 2 takes away from multiple tarkets. But yeah, that black mage graph astounds me. Firestarter makes it clear Fire 1 is your main attack.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:45
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Fire 2 appears to be worth the casting cost/time when you're up to 4 targets, but for 3 or less yeah, I just blast away with single target and try to rotate thunder procs across all mobs.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:52
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A. Beaverhausen posted:I never use fire 2. The single target damage of fire 1 goes so much farther than the sliver fire 2 takes away from multiple tarkets. But yeah, that black mage graph astounds me. Firestarter makes it clear Fire 1 is your main attack. If there are more than 3 mobs it is better to cast fire II by a long shot.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:00
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ApplesandOranges posted:Huh, so what do they call things like Stoneskin II/Medica II/Malefic II? I could get behind Medicara or Malefica, but Stoneskina just sounds weird. Looks like Stoneraskin (ooooh I like this solution)/Medicara/Malefira, respectively.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:03
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Goons, help me. I bought Elder Scrolls Online the other day and started playing it, and now I miss FFXIV. I enjoy ESO, it just doesn't feel MMO-y enough to me. More like an optionally co-op Elder Scrolls game. Should I resub to FFXIV? I'm seriously considering it, though my only problem is my main isn't on Excalibur so I can't play with goons, and I don't know how much the world transfer is or how long it takes to get a character moved onto Excalibur...
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Jan 18, 2016 01:04
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ApplesandOranges posted:Huh, so what do they call things like Stoneskin II/Medica II/Malefic II? I could get behind Medicara or Malefica, but Stoneskina just sounds weird. Taking a quick look at it, it looks like Malefic II is Malefira, Stoneskin II is Stoneraskin, and I *believe* Medica II is Medicara.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:06
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Kazinsal posted:Goons, help me. I bought Elder Scrolls Online the other day and started playing it, and now I miss FFXIV. I enjoy ESO, it just doesn't feel MMO-y enough to me. More like an optionally co-op Elder Scrolls game. it's $18/really quick. Up to you if that's worth it, though imo it is
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Jan 18, 2016 01:06
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ArashiKurobara posted:Looks like Stoneraskin (ooooh I like this solution)/Medicara/Malefira, respectively. (Medicare) (Can I have it?)
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Jan 18, 2016 01:06
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Stoneskinara
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Jan 18, 2016 01:09
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A. Beaverhausen posted:I never use fire 2. The single target damage of fire 1 goes so much farther than the sliver fire 2 takes away from multiple tarkets. But yeah, that black mage graph astounds me. Firestarter makes it clear Fire 1 is your main attack. Fire 1 is only 180 potency, Fire 2 is 100 potency per target. Even with only 3 targets, Fire 2 is more total dps. I really hope you're not doing single target in dungeons with big pulls.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:21
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Fister Roboto posted:Fire 1 is only 180 potency, Fire 2 is 100 potency per target. Even with only 3 targets, Fire 2 is more total dps. I really hope you're not doing single target in dungeons with big pulls. Biggest was 4, so not really.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:27
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You're still better off doing AOE with 3 or more targets. Especially as a black mage, because you're the only class with an unlimited resource. If you're a black mage and you're not AOEing, you are being bad.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:29
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SonicRulez posted:I excitedly await more dungeon stories. I can't see myself ever switching over to healer. Not that I'm not a team player, but that seems like the #1 job to gently caress up. You would be surprised. If healers are going to fail it is generally because they are trying to do too much (DPS and healing together) and having problems accordingly. It is hard to gently caress up healing if you are purely focusing on healing, and as you build confidence then you start expanding from there. Keep in mind you have 15 levels in a class before you can take it into a dungeon, plenty of time to get used to the skills you have. The first few dungeons also have huge margins for error. If you want to try healing, go ahead and put some levels into a healer. When you get to dungeons, grab some friendly folks who know you are new to the whole group healing thing and can help you learn. It really is not bad at all. Same thing applies for tanking.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:30
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Fister Roboto posted:You're still better off doing AOE with 3 or more targets. Especially as a black mage, because you're the only class with an unlimited resource. If you're a black mage and you're not AOEing, you are being bad. Ok, I appreciate the tip.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:35
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Just because you get something early doesn't mean it's weaker or obsolete. Exception: Ruin. YoshiOfYellow posted:Exception: If the scholar has just spread a crit adloquium with Deployment Tactics and the tanks are all standing around with their thumb up their rear end, I will pull the boss with no apologies. You are a saint.
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Jan 18, 2016 02:01
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Fister Roboto posted:You're still better off doing AOE with 3 or more targets. Especially as a black mage, because you're the only class with an unlimited resource. If you're a black mage and you're not AOEing, you are being bad. I thought the reason you didn't use Fire II for groups of three was because while it's higher potency with three enemies, the MP cost means less casts that's enough of a difference for Fire I to be better?
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