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DS9 worked being able to poke holes in the utopia because it presented the single greatest threat the Federation ever had. Quark's monologue about how take away humans comforts and they become as cruel and violent as Klingons and Cardassians, which is exactly it.
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Sep 9, 2017 00:07
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Arglebargle III posted:Wait poo poo they're doubling down on the augment thing and these are the REAL Klingons and every one in previous shows were infected. Source?
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Sep 9, 2017 00:23
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twistedmentat posted:DS9 worked being able to poke holes in the utopia because it presented the single greatest threat the Federation ever had. Quark's monologue about how take away humans comforts and they become as cruel and violent as Klingons and Cardassians, which is exactly it. Trek is optimistic, not utopian. TNG's occasional fits of starry-eyed nonsense aside, Federation society as depicted -- even if it doesn't share the problems that we have today -- obviously has problems, and it seems to encounter new problems every week, wherever it goes. Sometimes it even does something recognizably reprehensible, whether the writers meant it to or not. That ongoing moral struggle even after we've solved modern problems: that's what the shows are about, even the bad ones where they ran out of ideas for new problems. Back to the original question, another pretty important aspect of Trek is that it incorporates an external perspective on humanity. Every show has at least one character who is not what that show thinks of as a regular human person (Spock, Data, Odo, the EMH, Seven, T'pol, and you could make cases for others) and whose dramatic role is to step back and add a little perspective to the behavior of normal humans that the audience would otherwise take for granted. At the same time, Trek is fundamentally grounded in this idea of normal folks in space as opposed to something zany as gently caress like Lexx or Farscape where everyone's a loving weirdo. It wants us to consider things from the perspective of an outsider, but keep us firmly onside with the apotheosis of Americanized one-world-culture it presents.
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Sep 9, 2017 00:41
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skasion posted:Trek is optimistic, not utopian. TNG's occasional fits of starry-eyed nonsense aside, Federation society as depicted -- even if it doesn't share the problems that we have today -- obviously has problems, and it seems to encounter new problems every week, wherever it goes. Sometimes it even does something recognizably reprehensible, whether the writers meant it to or not. That ongoing moral struggle even after we've solved modern problems: that's what the shows are about, even the bad ones where they ran out of ideas for new problems. 
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Sep 9, 2017 01:30
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Watching Redemption Part I. Sounds like Gowron's gonna show up. Oh and Worf's gonna redeem himself? Finally.
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Sep 9, 2017 01:34
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Why does Worf even have to be convinced. Isn't the original reason he did it not applicable anymore because the people he was covering up for are dead or out of power?
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Sep 9, 2017 01:35
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Why does Worf even have to be convinced. Isn't the original reason he did it not applicable anymore because the people he was covering up for are dead or out of power? Worf is a chump.
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Sep 9, 2017 01:40
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Sep 9, 2017 01:47
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Klingon civil war huh. Feels like that's been a danger for a while. Intro thought: I had to leave for about ten minutes just now.
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Sep 9, 2017 01:48
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Please fix our society again Picard
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Sep 9, 2017 01:51
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says the reason he still can't expose Duras' treachery is that there are still people loyal to his family on the council. But wouldn't it make them like, less loyal to find out about that
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Sep 9, 2017 01:55
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Worf's surprised head whip when Guinan says she plays the light gun game above level 14
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Sep 9, 2017 01:56
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Still so true about Worf being a Klingaboo. He read some metaphorical dictum about how they never laugh and took it literally
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Sep 9, 2017 01:58
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Uh oh Worf's brother is reminding me of politics
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Sep 9, 2017 02:02
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So Worf's plan will be to wait until Gowron's in a precarious position then use that as leverage to get his honor restored. But won't that just make it seem more like Gowron's doing it for political expediency and not because Worf's father was really innocent? Am I thinking too much about this?
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Sep 9, 2017 02:04
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Oh man, Friday night watching Jeb watch the TNG season 4 finale! 
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Sep 9, 2017 02:05
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 What
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Sep 9, 2017 02:06
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 This is getting very Game of Thrones.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:07
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 Haha, efb by
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Sep 9, 2017 02:09
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Dammit is Picard really gonna keep Worf from using the evidence
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Sep 9, 2017 02:11
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Dammit is Picard really gonna keep Worf from using the evidence Oh no he's not, and he gave a good speech about conflicts of interest too.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:12
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Duras' daughter just questioned why Picard came alone and unarmed exactly the same way I was
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Sep 9, 2017 02:14
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 Lol
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Sep 9, 2017 02:14
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"You'd have nothing to gain by killing the arbiter early" UuuuuUUUUUUUUUH
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Sep 9, 2017 02:15
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The triangular cleavage windows on the female Klingon armor look awful
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Sep 9, 2017 02:17
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Well, is declared leader and the ship's gonna hit the fan
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Sep 9, 2017 02:18
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Gowron expects the Federation to do some uh, nation building
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Sep 9, 2017 02:21
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Picard being sensible and not getting involved, what'd Riker expect.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:24
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 Oh come on.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:32
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Worf is making neocon arguments about how the Duras family represents a threat to the federation
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Sep 9, 2017 02:33
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Oh poo poo
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Sep 9, 2017 02:35
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Sep 9, 2017 02:35
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Jeb! Repetition posted:
The trick about Klingons is that the idea of honor Worf has and the idea that 'real' Klingons have are very separate. To other Klingons, honor is a glorious combat that you don't lose and a knife in the back of a troublesome enemy that no one finds out about.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:37
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Sep 9, 2017 02:40
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Feathered hairdos. 
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Sep 9, 2017 02:41
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 Isn't that Tasha Yar's actor? Did they really expect no one to notice?
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Sep 9, 2017 02:43
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Isn't that Tasha Yar's actor? Did they really expect no one to notice? You don't want to know.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:43
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 WAIT
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Sep 9, 2017 02:43
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Gotta have that ridiculous cliffhanger huh.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:44
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Watch part 2, know hate.
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Sep 9, 2017 02:45
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