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ruddiger posted:The Sarlacc Pitt is literally a giant vagina that eats the male aggresors who subjugate women into slavery. Do you honestly think these things about the film? Really?
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Oct 19, 2016 17:40
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ruddiger posted:Leia is a strong independent woman who saves the day in Jedi. Compared to JJ Abrahams, creator of Rey, the lead character with the least agency of any Star War film rear end Catchcum posted:Do you honestly think these things about the film? Really? This literally happens on screen. It is clearly evocative of a vagina, and people who work for and thus support Jabba--a character who enslaves women--are eaten by it.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:41
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rear end Catchcum posted:Do you honestly think these things about the film? Really? Incredulity is a sign of weakness.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:42
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Mon Martha barely loving did anything what in the gently caress are you talking about Rey literally changed the course of every life she encounters in tfa. You're disgusting.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:43
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Phi230 posted:I think I side with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson on jar jar "I'm not a racist, I totally have black friends."
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Oct 19, 2016 17:43
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Waffles Inc. posted:He's a guy who's fallen on hard times who gets saved by a chance encounter by people who think he's an idiot because he doesn't have a standard way of speaking. They (and by extension the audience) are shamed by Jar Jar when it turns out that he's an emotionally and genuinely intelligent dude who helps them beat the Trade Federation The really cool thing about when Jar Jar is first introduced is that it's actually clearly him who accidentally saves Qui-Gon by just doing what comes naturally, as opposed to the brilliant Jedi master who's running along like/with a bunch of senseless, wild animals. Jar Jar's got "the knack." edit: To reiterate, the point of contention is not whether or not VIPs have extrapolated Jar Jar to be a racist character in a racist film.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:44
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rear end Catchcum posted:Ruddiger makes me legit vomit. I don't think anything of you, so at least there's that. Rogue One, your asian stereotypes are okay, I can't wait to go vroom vroom in the star war again!
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Oct 19, 2016 17:45
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Bleck posted:"I'm not a racist, I totally have black friends." Im trying to point out consensus. And I think they have some pretty good qualifications
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Oct 19, 2016 17:45
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rear end Catchcum posted:Mon Martha barely loving did anything what in the gently caress are you talking about Rey literally changed the course of every life she encounters in tfa. You're disgusting. Rey changed the course of the life of the random old woman who she finds disgusting. Somehow. I guess you could say she's responsible for the destruction of the bar-temple, causing negative changes in the lives of everyone there. Anyways, Daisy Ridley won't gently caress you so stop slavering, dude.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:46
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rear end Catchcum posted:Mon Martha barely loving did anything what in the gently caress are you talking about Rey literally changed the course of every life she encounters in tfa. You're disgusting. She's the leader of the rebel alliance and coordinated the attack on the second death star? She was more important in ROTJ than Leia was in TFA. And Rey didn't actively do anything, the course of the movie happened around her. Leia made decisions and changed the course of the film, Rey didn't. In fact, throughout the entire movie Rey didn't even want to take part in the movie! She kept wanting to return to Jakku; she wanted off the stage.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:46
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Phi230 posted:Im trying to point out consensus. And I think they have some pretty good qualifications Consensus reality is bullshit.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:46
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sassassin posted:Lucas is more sexist than racist imho. Yeah, that's a definite possibility. Whether it was done consciously or not, the original trilogy has a very sparse representation of women not named Leia Organa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODgwL7DJ9dY Leia herself is pretty drat awesome, though, so the degree to which this was done intentionally by Lucas, or was simply a reflection of the time in which the films were made is up for debate. It's little improvements and details, like how in Star Wars all of the Death Star assault pilots are white men, while in The Force Awakens, the pilots are quite diverse.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:47
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Im sorry Ruddiger for saying those things. I did not mean to imply those things nor offend. It was poorly worded and in bad taste
Phi230 fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 17:47
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Brainiac Five posted:Consensus reality is bullshit. How? When many qualified people concur with an opinion there is some high persuasion then
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Oct 19, 2016 17:48
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Toph Bei Fong posted:Yeah, that's a definite possibility. Whether it was done consciously or not, the original trilogy has a very sparse representation of women not named Leia Organa. I think we have Lucas to thank for Leia, and I think we can give him credit for wanting a woman who would be genuinely impactful. In fact, I think some of the earliest drafts (like, Han as a lizard man early) had Luke's character being a woman. Why there weren't more tertiary women? I don't know. B-unit directors and background casting maybe? I think the prequels, which were even more George's own vision, are much better on that front (and includes women pilots in the space battle of Naboo)
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Oct 19, 2016 17:50
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Phi230 posted:How? When many qualified people concur with an opinion there is some high persuasion then I believe in an external reality rather than some fairyland that warps to my desires, so I understand that mere support doesn't prove anything, otherwise slavery would have been right in 1800.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:51
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Brainiac Five posted:I believe in an external reality rather than some fairyland that warps to my desires, so I understand that mere support doesn't prove anything, otherwise slavery would have been right in 1800. Ok good point. But it us good support.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:51
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Brainiac Five posted:Rey changed the course of the life of the random old woman who she finds disgusting. Somehow. I guess you could say she's responsible for the destruction of the bar-temple, causing negative changes in the lives of everyone there. Wow way to reduce her to a gently caress thing.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:52
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Phi230 posted:How? When many qualified people concur with an opinion there is some high persuasion then I don't consider Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as qualified to tell me what is racist and what isn't. That's a separate discussion though. Here's a question: If you wanted to tell a story about how even good people can often disregard the value of those that are superficially different from them, even when its right in front of their face, how would you go about doing that without including a character who is different?
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Oct 19, 2016 17:53
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I wouldnt make a character that draws parallels to historic examples of racism
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Oct 19, 2016 17:54
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Phi230 posted:I wouldnt make a character that draws parallels to historic examples of racism historic examples of racism such as? I posted some youtube videos above of some dude who compiled jar jar's scenes any in particular you can point us to as a historic example of racism? is it the scene where he addresses the senate like most racist archtypes? is it the one where he emotionally comforts padme like most stereotypes? the sequence where he's an excellent and dexterous swimmer like most stereotypes?
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Oct 19, 2016 17:55
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Phi230 posted:I wouldnt make a character that draws parallels to historic examples of racism Gungans are, as far as I know, a fictional species. If they, by chance, are real, then I am still fairly certain that humanity has not actually encountered them yet, and as such there are likely no historic examples to parallel.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:56
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Phi230 posted:I wouldnt make a character that draws parallels to historic examples of racism Ok, but what would you do? Again, your goal is to show that people can be overlooked in our society based on trivial, superficial differences like skin color or manner of speech.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:56
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JJ should've let John Boyega speak with his native accent.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:56
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I previously narrowed my focus to TPM. I concede jar jar is not racist in the other 2
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Oct 19, 2016 17:57
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ruddiger posted:JJ should've let John Boyega speak with his native accent. This is true. It is a highlight of American dominance of media
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Oct 19, 2016 17:58
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This is all getting a bit confused. Jar Jar does not particularly resemble any actual person. He is based on the made-up qualities of a historical racial stereotype, not on the qualities that could identify which race is being stereotyped. The same is true of Watto and Nute Gunray. One not already exposed to that unfortunate tradition would have no idea of the significance of that dimension of the performance, and see only that the viewpoint characters hold his people in low esteem but eventually come around. Viewers more aware of the metatextual context will observe characters exhibiting elements of historical caricatures, but whose role in the story is at odds with the accusations leveled at the subjects of those caricatures. It amounts to an attack on caricature itself: drawing someone as a grotesque, directing them as a buffoon, writing them as an avaricious invader - these are only rationalizations for the underlying hate, which is directed at people who are sometimes coincidentally like that. You don't hate someone for being a buffoon or for being ugly, you don't despise an entire race because of the race of the leader of a hostile organization. When you see the caricature divorced from any real-world target (nobody in the world is racist against elephant fairies and nobody would even think of it if he weren't swarthy and big-nosed like in those cartoons), the folly of the characters' prejudice is underscored.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:58
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I think George Lucas could have made AOTC a better movie by developing Padme's perspective more than he did. We don't get to see much of her personal life except in relation to Anakin.
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Oct 19, 2016 17:58
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Zoran posted:I think George Lucas could have made AOTC a better movie by developing Padme's perspective more than he did. We don't get to see much of her personal life except in relation to Anakin. Sexism
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Oct 19, 2016 17:59
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Basebf555 posted:Ok, but what would you do? Again, your goal is to show that people can be overlooked in our society based on trivial, superficial differences like skin color or manner of speech. Star Wars already perfectly handles this with the droids.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:01
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Waffles Inc. posted:You're not a big fan of Barthes i guess huh If we're going by Barthes, then Ahmed Best's intents and influences aren't worth considering when interpreting Jar Jar. I'm not a big fan of Barthes.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:03
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Serf posted:Star Wars already perfectly handles this with the droids. This. Star Wars has literal slavery but divorces it from any controversy It could have been so easy to avoid racism in TPM
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Oct 19, 2016 18:03
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Serf posted:Star Wars already perfectly handles this with the droids. But then you have people who jump on the "but they're just droids and do not have consciousness" bandwagon, despite numerous instances within the movies that throws doubt on that reasoning.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:05
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ruddiger posted:But then you have people who jump on the "but they're just droids and do not have consciousness" bandwagon, despite numerous instances within the movies that throws doubt on that reasoning. It's true, this happens every two months.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:05
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Phi230 posted:This. Star Wars has literal slavery but divorces it from any controversy demonstrate what is racist in TPM
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Oct 19, 2016 18:06
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Waffles Inc. posted:demonstrate what is racist in TPM Jarjar, watto
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Oct 19, 2016 18:06
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ruddiger posted:But then you have people who jump on the "but they're just droids and do not have consciousness" bandwagon, despite numerous instances within the movies that throws doubt on that reasoning. I believe the "droids aren't people" talking point says a lot about the person bringing it up. I dunno whether this was intentional or not, but it sure can tell you a lot about how that person thinks.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:06
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To be clear: the character we're talking about, Jar Jar Binks, is: -The protagonist of the film. -Consistently linked to Luke and Anakin Skywalker. -A skilled mechanic. -Presented as an agent of the authentic light side of the force, which is distinct from 'having psychic powers'. -An expert woodsman. -Rightly skeptical of the Jedi and their ideology. -A decorated war hero. -The third point in an implicit love triangle. -A constant target of abuse because of his race.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:07
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I have no idea where youre getting many of those Especially the mechanic part. We are shown he is incompetent
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Oct 19, 2016 18:08
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Phi230 posted:I have no idea where youre getting many of those check his post history
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Oct 19, 2016 18:09
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