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Frabba posted:How do you feel about tanks who don't use their defensive cooldowns? Protect vs Defensive Cooldowns: One of them's knocking maybe 700 damage off a tankbuster, the other's making it so you don't drop dead the second the 8 mobs chasing you catch up. You can decide for yourself which is which. Remove Protect or directly swap it for its PVP counter part, which is actively engaging and would make a tangible difference.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:20
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even if protect winds up mitigating like three cures at the end of a dungeon it was 'worth it', and the effect on tank defense is non-negligible and will only get moreso
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Dec 18, 2017 20:22
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I don't heal tanks that run off before I can cast protect because anything that sacrifices even one percent of one holy cast can get the gently caress out of my dungeon.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:23
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Protect vs Defensive Cooldowns: What is the actual percentage reduction in damage from protect? People are throwing around the "It's worthless" statements but I've not really seen hard numbers for why it is worthless. Google was suggesting Protect is a 15% reduction in damage which is why I posted the comparison.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:24
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it's 15 percent defense up, which isn't 15 percent mitigation
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Dec 18, 2017 20:27
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People throw around like 4-6% -ish numbers for a tank at 70, but gently caress if I'm going to research it myself because that would be infinitely harder than just hitting the button.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:28
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:it's 15 percent defense up, which isn't 15 percent mitigation That would explain that, then.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:28
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Basically, there's no reason to not cast protect and there's no reason to have protect paralysis and refuse to move until you have it. The latter group are the bigger pissbabies when you come across them in-game, which actively makes me become one of the former. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 20:33
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Basically, there's no reason to not cast protect and there's no reason to have protect paralysis and refuse to move until you have it. That's just letting them win, stay strong comrade!
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Dec 18, 2017 20:36
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I get mad at people who don't eat food in dungeons.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:41
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Whether or not protect is valuable, it's 5 seconds of pointless busywork that doesn't require any decision making or considerations. It's like rogue poisons, something you apply and forget about, except those even got baked into the class. They should either scrap it or make it more like the PVP version, which is a temporary damage reduction buff for the WHM's target.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:41
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I throw Protect up at the start but I don't get paranoid about keeping it up if a DPS falls off a cliff and runs back or whatever.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:42
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Fister Roboto posted:
I had an LDR in the Level 38 sands dungeon with the Chimera at the end, and the tank (who apologized profusely for being rusty at the beginning) after the first boss and midway through the mob pulls stops and spent 3 minutes typing out about how casting Regen causes a lot of threat and all of this other bullshit as I died. I was casting Aero to pull mobs with the INSANE assumption that he'd grab them with Flash when they ran past him. A bridge too far. If you're gonna complain at me, at least name the appropriate crime I'm committing.
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Dec 18, 2017 20:44
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Frabba posted:What is the actual percentage reduction in damage from protect? People are throwing around the "It's worthless" statements but I've not really seen hard numbers for why it is worthless. Google was suggesting Protect is a 15% reduction in damage which is why I posted the comparison. For some actual numbers, you get 0.1% damage reduction for every 14-15 points of defense at level 70. As a tank in full 340 gear, I have 5066 defense, so that's almost exactly 35% reduction. With protect, that becomes 5826 defense, or 40.2% mitigation. When you compare the damage you take without protect to the damage you take with it, it's only an 8% reduction. For classes that have less defense, or at lower ilevels, the amount of mitigation protect provides will be significantly less. Of course the opposite is true, and as ilevels increase, protect will be slightly more effective. But that time is not now, and certainly not in a level 61 leveling dungeon. And also the bottom line here is that if your healer is keeping you alive without protect, don't whine about not having protect!
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Dec 18, 2017 20:55
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What if protect was a passive skill everyone grouped with a healer automatically got?
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Dec 18, 2017 20:57
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Fister Roboto posted:
I usually stand around for a while waiting for Protect when I tank, not so much because I need it but because I assume the healer's AFK or fiddling with gear or something. Also, it takes like three seconds to fire off a macro. burexas.irom posted:To reach Mordor, my friend Frodo, you must first traverse Something Awful: a country entirely made up of the weirdest hills to die on.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:04
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Fister Roboto posted:For some actual numbers, you get 0.1% damage reduction for every 14-15 points of defense at level 70. As a tank in full 340 gear, I have 5066 defense, so that's almost exactly 35% reduction. With protect, that becomes 5826 defense, or 40.2% mitigation. When you compare the damage you take without protect to the damage you take with it, it's only an 8% reduction. For classes that have less defense, or at lower ilevels, the amount of mitigation protect provides will be significantly less. Of course the opposite is true, and as ilevels increase, protect will be slightly more effective. But that time is not now, and certainly not in a level 61 leveling dungeon. It'll only be slightly more effective in content you're already out-gearing though. Current content is still going to be tuned for higher gear levels so the general effectiveness of Protect in actual relevant content is going to remain pretty much horizontal. Protect is balanced around being largely negligible on tanks and non existent on non-tanks, and that's something they're going to maintain.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:04
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When I'm tanking, the only reason I don't carry forward momentum at all times outside of a fight (in non-trial/raid content) is phone calls/wc breaks. I don't need protect, I don't need to hang around, get in, get out. We're not waiting for your GL3 to fall off because I want Fight or Flight up on pull or any of that similar nonsense.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:06
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Make protect a palisade clone that works on both damage types. I actually love using Palisade because it makes a difference on large pulls.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:07
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TFRazorsaw posted:I was told to update people of my story progress, so here I am doing that. 
Rastan Beeza fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 21:22
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Oh my god I can't believe I'm dying on this hill, truly this will be the end of me. *requeues immediately*
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Dec 18, 2017 21:24
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Make Protect a physical barrier that gets placed around the tank so they can't move
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Dec 18, 2017 21:27
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As a tank if the healer won't 'tect me I drop the group and spend the next 30 minutes jerking my micro penis.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:28
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Fister Roboto posted:Oh my god I can't believe I'm dying on this hill, truly this will be the end of me. But enough about Ramuh Extreme...
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Dec 18, 2017 21:29
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I refuse to move at the start of a dungeon until I've rolled a Bole on Spread + 200% Royal Road for the tank Delete Protect, bring back Stoneskin Kashuno fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 21:36
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I stop pulling until the other party members pass on the loot so I can have at least 3000 seals at the end of the run. If they dare greed, I go AFK even if I win.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:40
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It's all poop, not like cleric stance is doing much either.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:42
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Most of them time people ask for protect, I just say {Don't worry about it.} and that's the end of it, because I somehow manage to keep them all alive in spite of that. But every now and then I get people who for whatever reason get really mad about it, despite nobody dying. That's what makes this worth doing for me.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:43
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When it sucks is when the tank and healer go at it and the dps have to sit there and twiddle thumbs.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:50
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Rascyc posted:When it sucks is when the tank and healer go at it and the dps have to sit there and twiddle thumbs. Can't say anything either cause if you rock the boat and get kicked you're in a 30 minute queue.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:51
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I will say that the randoms I meet in the post-50 content tend to be much more miserable and lovely than everyone I met on the way up
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Dec 18, 2017 21:51
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Josuke Higashikata posted:I stop pulling until the other party members pass on the loot so I can have at least 3000 seals at the end of the run. If they dare greed, I go AFK even if I win. Good idea, I'll have to remember that.
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Dec 18, 2017 21:56
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are Oils of Time and the stuff like that from the Crystal Tower worth anything these days, or just buy i120 gear and move on?
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Dec 18, 2017 22:04
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Fister Roboto posted:Most of them time people ask for protect, I just say {Don't worry about it.} and that's the end of it, because I somehow manage to keep them all alive in spite of that. I've found opportunities to be an rear end in a top hat come up organically at a frightening pace. I don't need to create extra. I cast protect not because it's a great skill, but because it's not like I'm awash in other great cross class options, and frankly just mashing the button means I get to spend less time talking to retards I don't know.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:05
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See that's the thing though, I'm doing my job, which is to keep people alive. It doesn't matter how as long as it happens. The assholes are the ones saying that I'm not doing my job because I didn't give them a safety blanket too.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:10
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Kashuno posted:are Oils of Time and the stuff like that from the Crystal Tower worth anything these days, or just buy i120 gear and move on? Sands turn non-dyeable versions of the seal armor into dyeable ones if you want a glamour.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:11
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Fister Roboto posted:See that's the thing though, I'm doing my job, which is to keep people alive. It doesn't matter how as long as it happens. The assholes are the ones saying that I'm not doing my job because I didn't give them a safety blanket too. Here's the thing. Pubs aren't going to know you from any other healer in the game, nor do they give a poo poo about %DR in real applications or whatever. They don't care. What they do care about is you not doing what healers almost always do, which is cast protect at the start of a dungeon. Right/Wrong/Indifferent, who gives a poo poo it is about not starting the run on a bad note. I get it, it's a useless and annoying waste of a slot that serves no purpose other to make people feel better, but sometimes that's what people need. It's easier to just not worry about it, do what people have expected healers to do since 2.0, and chill.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:22
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Nah.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:29
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OK
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Dec 18, 2017 22:31
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Fister Roboto posted:See that's the thing though, I'm doing my job, which is to keep people alive. It doesn't matter how as long as it happens. The assholes are the ones saying that I'm not doing my job because I didn't give them a safety blanket too. Okay. Unless you're a lot more internet famous than I am aware nobody who queues with you blindly is going to know you're going to keep them alive and not that you're not an inept healer who doesn't know what they're doing, especially since Protect is cast at the very start of a dungeon before you'd have any chance to prove your worth. They just see someone who is refusing to spend five seconds to cast a buff and then getting snippy about it because you're trying to prove a point that is entirely meaningless to prove. ("The relative protection of Protect is not actually significant.") Even if you're right (and you are) there's still no reason not to cast it beyond laziness because it's trivial to macro it. You're being an rear end in a top hat to people for literally no reason or benefit. It's not even like you're trying to get people to stop using an actively bad and detrimental skill. You're trying to get them to stop using one which is just a boring small buff. There's no reason NOT to cast it. It's just not anywhere as essential as people make it out to be.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:31
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