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Big Mean Jerk posted:It's this. The Shanzhou crew had zero character because they're essentially featured extras. The pilot is really the first three episodes and CBS should have released them as such instead of spacing it out over two weeks. If they had done this they wouldn't have generated such immense backlash and might have had people talk about more than just how garbage it was though!
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Sep 27, 2017 09:33
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I can't wait for the real story to actually start, just in time for it to be canceled!
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Sep 27, 2017 09:33
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Angry Salami posted:I can't wait for the real story to actually start, just in time for it to be canceled!
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Sep 27, 2017 09:57
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A bizarre and depressing majority of Trek fans loving love Voyager, so it doesn't even need to be canceled, or good.
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Sep 27, 2017 10:23
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I've always been rather ambivalent about Voyager. I don't hate it, I don't love it, it simply is.
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Sep 27, 2017 10:27
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Orv posted:A bizarre and depressing majority of Trek fans loving love Voyager, so it doesn't even need to be canceled, or good. I think it's a generational thing. People tend to like the first Trek they saw while it was still a current show. It's the same phenomenon we have now where people go out of their way to mention that they liked the Star Wars prequels. And after them, a generation of kids who grew up watching the Clone Wars TV series, and soon it'll be Rebels.
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Sep 27, 2017 10:49
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Angry Salami posted:I can't wait for the real story to actually start, just in time for it to be canceled! Please don't Enterprise me again. 
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Sep 27, 2017 10:50
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Nessus posted:To be fair, there is no greater recipe for fan love than this. Oh god, Trekkies crossed with Firefly fans. KILL IT NOW!
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Sep 27, 2017 10:55
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Grand Fromage posted:Please don't Enterprise me again. it's been a long road gettin from there to here~
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Sep 27, 2017 10:55
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I'm all for bashing the episodes if I didn't enjoy them, but I enjoyed them. It's been twelve years since the last Trek was on TV, and I was hoping to see how Trek thread would respond if it was half decent. Instead, I just see people using hating the show (based on two episodes) to signal that they're the better Star Trek fans. Like after DS9, I wanted another serialized Trek, especially in a TV landscape where every show is serialized now. But now people are just once again saying New Trek isn't "real trek". Based on two episodes. Which I didn't think were bad.
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Sep 27, 2017 11:50
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Very few if any people have said anything like that and many people have made intelligent, thoughtful critiques on the show and the themes it's (seemingly) attempting to present. Pithy is what this thread does, and at some point you can only point out so many times that the show is actually endorsing Burnham's ugly, unpleasant view point not in dialogue but in plot before you get back to some rear end in a top hat like me going "Lol but Voyager right?" You've repeatedly asked why people are ragging on a show that you enjoyed. Perhaps because they didn't enjoy it, and that's life. Orv fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 12:08
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It is entirely possible to like a thing while having serious issues with it. That's where I am with Discovery anyway. I liked the first two episodes, it has big flaws, but I enjoyed those 90-ish minutes of TV.
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Sep 27, 2017 12:13
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Also an option. I think Discovery is in a place where it can come back from the missteps it's had thus far, and I genuinely hope it manages to do so without going full Enterprise and needing three seasons of drivel to get there. Not necessarily holding my breath, given what we've heard about the production of the show and the fact that it being on All Access is probably going to kill it no matter how good it ends up, but I certainly wouldn't object if it happened.
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Sep 27, 2017 12:18
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My main thought is that we still haven't been introduced to most of the cast, the main ship hasn't appeared yet - I have no idea what an 'ordinary' episode of the show would look like. I don't mind what I've seen, the main character's interesting if currently fairly unsympathetic, a lot of the designs look a lot better than I was expecting, I'm interested to see where this is going... but I don't feel I have any idea where that might be. I feel like if this was an old Trek story, we'd barely be at the end of the pre-credits teaser, so I don't feel I've got enough idea what's going on to confidently say "Yeah, I'm gonna like this."
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Sep 27, 2017 12:28
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It's amazing how much STD has managed to replicate Star Trek '09 right down to getting people to say "yeah it wasn't actually very good but it was exciting and I think they could probably do something if they give it time"
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Sep 27, 2017 12:44
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:It's amazing how much STD has managed to replicate Star Trek '09 right down to getting people to say "yeah it wasn't actually very good but it was exciting and I think they could probably do something if they give it time" ST'09:  Discovery: 
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Sep 27, 2017 12:53
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Angry Salami posted:My main thought is that we still haven't been introduced to most of the cast, the main ship hasn't appeared yet - I have no idea what an 'ordinary' episode of the show would look like. I don't mind what I've seen, the main character's interesting if currently fairly unsympathetic, a lot of the designs look a lot better than I was expecting, I'm interested to see where this is going... but I don't feel I have any idea where that might be. I feel like if this was an old Trek story, we'd barely be at the end of the pre-credits teaser, so I don't feel I've got enough idea what's going on to confidently say "Yeah, I'm gonna like this." Exactly. While this may, from a cinematography or technical or design standpoint, be the best of the modern Trek pilots, in my opinion it fails as a pilot because it it can't be used as an example of what the show is about. At least, that's what everyone who's been saying "give it a chance" seems to be arguing. By the end of every other Trek pilot you knew what you were getting into.
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Sep 27, 2017 12:54
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If differences in opinion aren't your thing perhaps pop culture discussion on the internet isn't for you.
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Sep 27, 2017 12:55
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The_Doctor posted:ST'09: I still think that's a neat idea, and very Vulcan in terms of its almost depressing logical methodology. What need emotional learning for brain robots?
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Sep 27, 2017 12:56
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Drink-Mix Man posted:As some folks have pointed out, this first couple episodes might just play as a "prequel" to the "real" pilot, the backstory before we really get going. What a terrible decision to do to a show where the first episode is supposed to be the hook to move the audience to a new, paid platform.
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Sep 27, 2017 12:57
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Gonz posted:I hope Lt. Daft Punk is a series regular on Discovery. Apparently according to some garbage tie-in novel, her name is Jira Narwani and that's a helmet. According to the same garbage tie-in novel, Captain Pike's Number One is named..... Una...  https://trekmovie.com/2017/09/25/review-desperate-hours-novel-tie-in-delivers-thrills-and-insights-into-star-trek-discovery/
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Sep 27, 2017 13:10
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Scudworth posted:If differences in opinion aren't your thing perhaps pop culture discussion on the internet isn't for you.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:23
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The entire feel is off. I'm not saying it should be The Orville, but it wasn't fun at all. Trek 09 was fun. This wasn't. I could see myself liking this show more if it weren't Star Trek, strangely.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:33
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Echo Chamber posted:I was referring to the petty snipes like GRIMDARK and POST-9/11 and SHOW ENDORSES WAR. And I remember this thread for weeks was practically rooting for the show to suck. "Show endorses the global war on terror" is the opposite of a petty snipe.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:39
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Echo Chamber posted:I was referring to the petty snipes like GRIMDARK and POST-9/11 and SHOW ENDORSES WAR. And I remember this thread for weeks was practically rooting for the show to suck. We get it, you like the show, you're upset that some people can't see it, or whatever you've got going on here, you're not going to find converts until the third episode at minimum.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:39
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I didn't get the impression they were going for a 24-style TOUGH MEN MAKING TOUGH CHOICES story. Yeah there was a load of militaristic dick waving, and the end result was an unmitigated disaster for both sides. I think the pilot is very much supposed to be what happens when the Federation forgets its the Federation. As if a brain damaged man mumbling "this isn't who we really are" before getting violently spaced wasn't enough of a clue. If the show actually does come out all jingostic and oo-rah then that scene just becomes cruel and vindictive. So I guess I'm hoping as much as thinking this.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:44
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Echo Chamber posted:I was referring to the petty snipes like GRIMDARK and POST-9/11 and SHOW ENDORSES WAR. And I remember this thread for weeks was practically rooting for the show to suck. The captain of a Starfleet vessel committed an out-and-out war crime and no one batted an eye. Go mash those sour grapes at reddit if you want upvotes so badly.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:45
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Something someone pointed out in another thread that really hurts my brain. the science officer said he can't lock onto a body without life signs(since when?), when minutes before they transport a bomb into a dead body
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Sep 27, 2017 13:48
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[quote="“Strom Cuzewon”" post="“476813263”"] I didn’t get the impression they were going for a 24-style TOUGH MEN MAKING TOUGH CHOICES story. Yeah there was a load of militaristic dick waving, and the end result was an unmitigated disaster for both sides. I think the pilot is very much supposed to be what happens when the Federation forgets its the Federation. As if a brain damaged man mumbling “this isn’t who we really are” before getting violently spaced wasn’t enough of a clue. If the show actually does come out all jingostic and oo-rah then that scene just becomes cruel and vindictive. So I guess I’m hoping as much as thinking this. [/quote] Yeah this is pretty much where I'm at. Maybe the network totally changed Fuller's story, but I can't imagine his story being a jingoistic "federation values are for pussies" type thing after all Fuller talked about the importance of Star Trek's progressive, optimistic values. The feeling at the end of episode 2 is that poo poo is hosed, and how are we going to get out of this war. [quote="“Al Borland Corp.”" post="“476813335”"] Something someone pointed out in another thread that really hurts my brain. the science officer said he can’t lock onto a body without life signs(since when?), when minutes before they transport a bomb into a dead body [/quote] They could lock onto a body that they could see floating on its own in space but not one that was inside a wrecked ship full of corpses. Makes sense to me. marktheando fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Sep 27, 2017 |
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Sep 27, 2017 13:49
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Something someone pointed out in another thread that really hurts my brain. I can't get super mad at that because Trek tech has always been excessively plot reliant, but it is great that they flip flop on it in almost the same scene.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:51
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You have to give it a season to work out the kinks. Once Season 2 starts and Michael has grown a beard, Discovery will be good.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:51
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I didn't get the impression they were going for a 24-style TOUGH MEN MAKING TOUGH CHOICES story. Yeah there was a load of militaristic dick waving, and the end result was an unmitigated disaster for both sides. I think the pilot is very much supposed to be what happens when the Federation forgets its the Federation. As if a brain damaged man mumbling "this isn't who we really are" before getting violently spaced wasn't enough of a clue. The federation didn't forget its values. Burnham maybe, but no other federation officer did. And T'Kuvmas plan depended on that. The helmsman getting spaced was to tell you: if you think you can live in this period as not a soldier, you're dead meat.
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Sep 27, 2017 13:53
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Drone posted:I think it's a generational thing. People tend to like the first Trek they saw while it was still a current show. I got a friend of mine into Trek by getting him to watch TNG, and told him to go TNG -> DS9 -> Voyager. He ended up liking Voyager, less than the other 2 of course, but clearly liking a lot of the episodes while faulting the super crazy bad ones (instead of the normal crazy bad ones). Growing up I saw TNG -> Voyager -> DS9, and while I still think Voyager is pretty bad, I do think a lot of goons here poo poo on it way too hard.
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Sep 27, 2017 14:03
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Well... I watched the first two episodes of Star Trek Discovery. And the preview for the rest of the season. It was... ok. It's a pretty decent sci-fi action \ drama show. It's really cinematic and has really high production values. Is it completely terrible like some people say it is? Well, no. It's just too bad that it isn't a Star Trek show. The reviews are good because if you place it into a vacuum and ignore all the Trek shows that preceded it, it's pretty good. But it isn't Star Trek. They got the lore mostly right but the tone and overall feel is just way, way off. It kind of fundamentally misunderstands what Star Trek is about and makes it into a dark, morally ambiguous military science fiction show. It's like 24 dressed up in a starfleet uniform. It superficially resembles Star Trek, but it isn't Star Trek. And I'm not knocking dark, gritty sci-fi. I like a lot of series like that. I enjoy stuff like Battlestar Galactica, Mass Effect, Starship Troopers and Dune. I'm a huge fan of Star Wars and Mobile Suit Gundam. It's a genre I really, really like. And I enjoy a lot of bleak, depressing sci-fi that isn't in the military genre. I absolutely adore Blade Runner and Neon Genesis Evangelion. But... all of these things are not Star Trek. That hopeful, utopian optimism about the future and humanity is what makes Star Trek, well, Star Trek. It's what sets it apart from other science fiction. The world is a pretty depressing place and we need an uplifting, optimistic Star Trek show more than ever now. Discovery does away with the thing that makes Star Trek unique. When you subtract the hopeful and almost naive optimism, faith in humanity and the secular humanist values it espouses, you just wind up with a generic space opera. I think something like 80% of the people who aren't happy with this show would probably enjoy it if it wasn't called Star Trek and was it's own thing. But it claims to be Star Trek, so I can't help but feel really disappointed with it.
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Sep 27, 2017 14:17
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McSpanky posted:The captain of a Starfleet vessel committed an out-and-out war crime and no one batted an eye. Go mash those sour grapes at reddit if you want upvotes so badly. Also... what.
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Sep 27, 2017 14:40
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I get the sinking feeling that we're not going to get a season 2, no matter how good this actually ends up becoming. It could do massively overseas, but if CBS determines that it isn't bringing the numbers they want for their streaming service, they're gonna shut off the lights. This is and always has been a giant advertisement for their foray into the streaming market, which is such a colossally dumb "hey I wanna be one of the big boys too" move. Just license your IP to Netflix and Hulu and then everyone's happy. Hopefully I'm just being overly cynical and we'll see more than 15 episodes of Discovery, because I'm totally down to see how it evolves.
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Sep 27, 2017 14:41
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Echo Chamber posted:Michael wasn't a captain. Mining a dead body is a war crime.
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Sep 27, 2017 14:44
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HD DAD posted:I get the sinking feeling that we're not going to get a season 2, no matter how good this actually ends up becoming. It could do massively overseas, but if CBS determines that it isn't bringing the numbers they want for their streaming service, they're gonna shut off the lights. They would be fools to considering on foreign markets alone they've already made all their money back and a tidy profit from selling this show. They could get zero subscribers to all access and never air it in anerica and it would still be one of their biggest money making programs
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Sep 27, 2017 14:48
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WampaLord posted:You can tell Seth actually really loves TNG, the problem being his ego is so big he thinks he can be a leading man and he really can't pull it off. I'm trying to take that as part of his character; he's deeply uncomfortable with being serious and authoritative, so he defuses tension with attempts at humor, which usually just serve to ratchet up the tension instead, shaking his confidence and knocking him off-stance. It's consistent, at least, whether purposeful or not (or a mix?)
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Sep 27, 2017 14:51
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So far as captain he's been fairly hands off and deferred stuff to other people usually. In the pilot his character gets about equal as much focus as Palicki, in episode 2 he was in the B plot, and in episode 3 when normally a captain would have taken the "lawyer" role he assigned it to the first officer.
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Sep 27, 2017 15:07
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