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Vanadium posted:they found one yesterday! what about the other 29
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Oct 20, 2013 01:04
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Arcsech posted:honestly i have an electrical engineering degree and usually do embedded programming but the project im on is ending and management is all "TEH CLOD" hmm, you sure about that? working the angles at the company's cloud division to finish a last-minute push before your launch window closes… could be normal web development. could also be kerbal space program
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Oct 20, 2013 01:28
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uG posted:in this new age of fad language of the month, javascript doesnt have much time left as todays cool poo poo toy agreed the web is a fad
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Oct 20, 2013 01:28
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got a copy of the pragprog elixir book in development from work, been meaning to take a look at the language more closely so it's good timing dynamo seems cool, basically an elixir version of sinatra (which i've been using for a recent project), gonna check it out
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Oct 20, 2013 02:12
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spongeh posted:agreed the web is a fad are you naturally an unhelpful belligerent moron or is that your "gimmick"
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Oct 20, 2013 03:16
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apparently my gimmick is making radical and insane statements such as "javascript isn't a fad and is going to stay around" not sure how that makes me a moron, but i guess morons aren't self aware.
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Oct 20, 2013 04:44
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the visual basic of our time? maybe
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Oct 20, 2013 05:09
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spongeh posted:apparently my gimmick is making radical and insane statements such as "javascript isn't a fad and is going to stay around" javascript will stick around the insanity of writing complete applications entirely in the browser with only the crudest possible CRUD api on the backend probably won't. node will probably fade as well that is to say js will remain in its current state, where only idiots insist that a good language hides inside it, and frontend devs make less money than everyone else in the room
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Oct 20, 2013 07:05
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:javascript will stick around lol, did a frontend dev gently caress your gf or something?
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Oct 20, 2013 07:23
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:that is to say js will remain in its current state, where only idiots insist that a good language hides inside it, and frontend devs make less money than everyone else in the room took a job as a front-end dev at a company, accidentally was sent the wrong offer letter. letter was for a back-end dev who would be making $17k more. so can confirm. (also i'm 20 and no degree so ain't like there aren't other factors, but drat, gonna spend the next year working on dumb js + learning back-end poo poo as much as possible i guess)
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Oct 20, 2013 07:29
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abraham linksys posted:took a job as a front-end dev at a company, accidentally was sent the wrong offer letter. letter was for a back-end dev who would be making $17k more. so can confirm. at my last job i was earning more than double what some of the frontend guys were paid. i left because i was underpaid. never underestimate how little you can pay a college dropout, or how stigmatized front-end work has become. i have seen backend guys will flatly refuse to touch js or html as a matter of pride, it's getting to be insane Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Oct 20, 2013 |
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Oct 20, 2013 07:37
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Stringent posted:lol, did a frontend dev gently caress your gf or something? i worked on a failed nodejs project. i've worked on many, many failed projects. some failed explosively. but technology was never the issue, never even in the top 5. it was always politics, or staffing, or budget on the nodejs project, node itself was the #3 reason it failed, behind a key staff departure and budget. the budget became critical when the dev team concluded that the entire 1st release codebase would have to be thrown away because node was not debuggable Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Oct 20, 2013 |
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Oct 20, 2013 07:38
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:node was not debuggable --debug-brk + node-inspector? (i've never used a Real Man's IDE before so my expectations are far lower but node is more easily debuggable than, say, python, assuming your requirements are "set breakpoints and see stack + state")
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Oct 20, 2013 07:43
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abraham linksys posted:--debug-brk + node-inspector? callback hell for the record i was not the one writing nodejs code. i was in some really depressing meetings where they reached consensus that their code was write-only and that was the closest i got to it
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Oct 20, 2013 07:44
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:key staff departure oh the old one-man-project i remember a post on stackoverflow where the ceo couldnt fire the guy loving his wife cuz he was essential it was megalol and sad
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Oct 20, 2013 08:05
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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:oh the old one-man-project it was, believe it or not, a manager
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Oct 20, 2013 08:05
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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:i remember a post on stackoverflow where the ceo couldnt fire the guy loving his wife cuz he was essential it was megalol and sad is there a link to this still
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Oct 20, 2013 08:13
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spongeh posted:is there a link to this still I am at work but i think it was in prograammers stackexchange (not the main site) search for cheating wife stackexchange (sry cant help)
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Oct 20, 2013 08:28
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spongeh posted:is there a link to this still http://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/7617/how-should-i-deal-with-an-employee-who-has-slept-with-my-wife
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Oct 20, 2013 08:32
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sounds like she downgraded
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Oct 20, 2013 14:48
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there's no accounting for taste. p-lang defenders itt should be proof enough of that
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Oct 20, 2013 15:54
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spongeh posted:apparently my gimmick is making radical and insane statements such as "javascript isn't a fad and is going to stay around" so the bad posting is genuine. ty for explaining
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Oct 20, 2013 15:57
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:at my last job i was earning more than double what some of the frontend guys were paid. i left because i was underpaid. i think there's genuine value in being good within the strict bubble of ui/html/css. it's a giant pain in the rear end in a different manner than doing backend, but a lot of devs have zero design ability. if you can do both, you're only going to increase your value, but that's assuming you can actually design and you aren't only basing your ability off writing html/css in order to match a psd file. basically what the actual definition of full stack should be, but i'm not certain if it completely is. the last couple days i was pondering the idea of using node/express for the backend this project i'm currently working on instead of sinatra, but then i remembered how much i hate js and that switching to it would provide minimal gains for a lot more headache.
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Oct 20, 2013 17:12
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i fuckin hate designing, i can put together a ui that works (pretty much only 3 designs - top navbar, left column, both) but i fuckin hate having that circular debate "but what if we put a gradient heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere. no, lighter. lighter. too light."
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Oct 20, 2013 17:27
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gucci void main posted:i think there's genuine value in being good within the strict bubble of ui/html/css. it's a giant pain in the rear end in a different manner than doing backend, but a lot of devs have zero design ability. if you can do both, you're only going to increase your value, but that's assuming you can actually design and you aren't only basing your ability off writing html/css in order to match a psd file. basically what the actual definition of full stack should be, but i'm not certain if it completely is.
basically "front-end" is unusual because it is defined by your limitations, your lack of basic skills. other specialized job titles identify the things you do unusually well, or a special combination of skills. "front-end" identifies what you cannot do. it's the most pejorative job title i know of Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Oct 20, 2013 |
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Oct 20, 2013 17:32
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I can consider a front-end guy to be a specialization because front-end web work is loving painful. You're the junction point between the designers, the lazy rear end backend devs, the project managers, QA, all the retarded web technology that keeps changing every three weeks in incompatible manners, customers, and whoever else gets to take a look at the project. You get to do the actual work last once everyone else in the project has taken their sweet time to make their poo poo, and then you have to meld it together in 5 hours before things go live because marketing said so, etc. You're the first one to blame if something goes wrong, too. I used to do front-end work, but I can't (and won't) do it anymore. Mad respect to people who have the temper to deal with it and thrive in it, though.
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Oct 20, 2013 18:05
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there are separate teams here for each frontend, web, mobile, desktop...im on the backend team. specifically i work on the backend backend. i don't even have access to the html and js. its a good job
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Oct 20, 2013 19:04
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MononcQc posted:I can consider a front-end guy to be a specialization because front-end web work is loving painful. You're the junction point between the designers, the lazy rear end backend devs, the project managers, QA, all the retarded web technology that keeps changing every three weeks in incompatible manners, customers, and whoever else gets to take a look at the project. Gosh, this sounds awfully familiar. I thought I was just unlucky, I had no idea it was a phenomenon.
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Oct 20, 2013 19:51
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:at my last job i was earning more than double what some of the frontend guys were paid. i left because i was underpaid. i'm gonna agree with MononcQc here. guys who can do backend don't want to do frontend, because frontend technologies are so awful to work with, and the position of frontend developer makes your job suck a lot more. it's not really a salary stigma thing. i'm perfectly capable of doing freelance web dev "hurrr call a few REST APIs" crap alongside my real job to really rake in the cash, but i don't, because i want to avoid javascript more than i want a ferrari. so yeah, i'll respect people who have the temper to deal with frontend development. maybe not mad respect, but some. after all, that's how everyone else in the world feels about programmers in general...
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Oct 20, 2013 20:10
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its not just that front end tech is horrible to work with, its that every attempt to make it better has been totally rejected by front-end "devs". XAML is wonderful but it only works on good platforms so the drop-out Linux users don't want to use it. everyone whos smart enough to do front end stuff well can get paid more doing better stuff and everyone who's left behind is the worst kind of idiot. then when those kind of "people" try to get into back end stuff you end up with garbage like node and mongo.
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Oct 20, 2013 20:40
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Shaggar posted:its not just that front end tech is horrible to work with, its that every attempt to make it better has been totally rejected by front-end "devs". XAML is wonderful but it only works on good platforms so the drop-out Linux users don't want to use it. everyone whos smart enough to do front end stuff well can get paid more doing better stuff and everyone who's left behind is the worst kind of idiot. then when those kind of "people" try to get into back end stuff you end up with garbage like node and mongo. "drop-out linux users" are the backbone of the industry shaggar. i totally get that you love windows and .net, but that's not what underpins tech firms and it's never going to be, bizspark notwithstanding
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Oct 20, 2013 22:01
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JewKiller 3000 posted:i'm gonna agree with MononcQc here. guys who can do backend don't want to do frontend, because frontend technologies are so awful to work with, and the position of frontend developer makes your job suck a lot more. it's not really a salary stigma thing. when everyone who has the choice refuses to do the job, that's the direct route to stigmatization and low pay. there is also the tiny problem that it's very possible to have a successful web application with 0 dedicated front-end developers. non-essential AND doing horrible work other people shun? gee i wonder why it's not highly compensated
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Oct 20, 2013 22:03
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do you have any examples of such successful web apps with 0 dedicated front-end developers?
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Oct 21, 2013 00:14
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MononcQc posted:do you have any examples of such successful web apps with 0 dedicated front-end developers? no, as a matter of policy, i only work for companies that fail success might go to my head
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Oct 21, 2013 00:18
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what any app really needs is an idea guy. The rest of it can be winged by someone with a book on the corner of the desk or some tutorial
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Oct 21, 2013 00:21
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active directory for dummies
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Oct 21, 2013 00:25
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MononcQc posted:He also worked on Fortress, which was objectively crazy awesome in its approach of being a language for mathematicians that would be both in a regular notation to execute and could be displayed as generated PDFs or actual equations when editing, and would be auto-parallelized. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SfaX-w5-Eg
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Oct 21, 2013 00:27
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Suspicious Dish posted:http://www.amazon.com/Working-Effectively-Legacy-Michael-Feathers/dp/0131177052 bout half way through this atm, is great. ty
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Oct 23, 2013 14:42
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since "front-end" seems to basically mean "browser" what do you call the devs working on, say, the server-side MVC site? it's front-end in the sense that it's just slinging html at the user in response to requests where the majority of the work is done via some web service but it's still working in useful languages like java or c# unless you're in some fly-by-night plang startup
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Oct 24, 2013 21:16
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Monkeyseesaw posted:since "front-end" seems to basically mean "browser" what do you call the devs working on, say, the server-side MVC site? it's front-end in the sense that it's just slinging html at the user in response to requests where the majority of the work is done via some web service but it's still working in useful languages like java or c# unless you're in some fly-by-night plang startup full stack ninja gaiden enterprise java guru meditator or, at a bank, vice president
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Oct 24, 2013 21:54
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